Deandre Ayton facing 25 game suspension

[Mainstreet]

I am wondering if the players union decided not to pursue after getting more facts.

I think we would have known already if Ayton's appeal was successful. I'm thinking we do not hear anything. Like to be wrong about this.

 

[JCSunsfan]

As a strong Ayton supporter, I do have to admit he has been disappointing in terms of his maturity/mental approach, and he must know that he has hurt the team with this selfish and irresponsible behavior. Hopefully, it's only due to his youth, and he will grow out of it sooner than later.

And the good thing about Doncic's quick start - and the growing popular opinion that the Suns messed up by not taking him instead - is that it should provide lots of motivation for Ayton to step up his game. Or at least one would hope so, if he has any competitive pride and drive, at all. We shall see.

I am not sure about motivation to step up his game, but it might be some motivation to grow up and enter the adult world. DA is obviously immature. I would think a little maturity would have a positive impact on his game.

 

[BC867]

I am not sure about motivation to step up his game, but it might be some motivation to grow up and enter the adult world. DA is obviously immature. I would think a little maturity would have a positive impact on his game.

I wonder if it is immaturity or Deandre's upbringing in the Bahamas.

It was definitely a laid back environment. And now, lack of experience
with the faster paced U.S. culture, especially as an instant millionaire.

An extra challenge vs. home grown NBA players, regardless of their
intellect or upbringing. Especially with the attention focused on, and
expectations from being, a #1 draft pick.

He needs a strong mentor, a previous 'big', with whom he could
aspire to identify. It is not as easy as it sounds.

Realistically, Europeans have other Europeans. Players from the
ghetto have other players from the ghetto. Who does someone
from close to the Caribbean have?

Technically, the Bahamas are not in the Caribbean. But close
enough to have the same easy going mindset.

 

[1Sun]

I wonder if it is immaturity or Deandre's upbringing in the Bahamas.

It was definitely a laid back environment. And now, lack of experience
with the faster paced U.S. culture, especially as an instant millionaire.

An extra challenge vs. home grown NBA players, regardless of their
intellect or upbringing. Especially with the attention focused on, and
expectations from being, a #1 draft pick.

He needs a strong mentor, a previous 'big', with whom he could
aspire to identify. It is not as easy as it sounds.

Realistically, Europeans have other Europeans. Players from the
ghetto have other players from the ghetto. Who does someone
from close to the Caribbean have?

Technically, the Bahamas are not in the Caribbean. But close
enough to have the same easy going mindset.

Too bad we can't pluck Tim Duncan off the Spurs bench as a big man coach...

 

[pokerface]

Seems like Ayton is going to do the full 25 games...Just going to have to hold out.

 

[Hoop Head]

The only good thing that may have come from the appeal is he won't be put in the drug program following his suspension. Whether that happens or not, who knows, but the failed test should put him in there. That would mean he'll be tested more than regular NBA players, which could be a good thing for him in the long run. It may also backfire and cause more suspensions down the line if he is smoking pot and pissing dirty continually, like has been theorized by some.

I could see a decision being made about the drug monitoring he's scheduled to take part in after his suspension without information released yet because it doesn't change his suspension. To announce he won't be part of the program while continuing his suspension would probably raise more questions from fans than anything so holding that back until he returns may be the right way to handle it, if it does get changed. I'm not saying it will or won't be changed, just that it's really the only thing that may have come from the appeal that we haven't heard about yet.

 

[Chaplin]

The only good thing that may have come from the appeal is he won't be put in the drug program following his suspension. Whether that happens or not, who knows, but the failed test should put him in there. That would mean he'll be tested more than regular NBA players, which could be a good thing for him in the long run. It may also backfire and cause more suspensions down the line if he is smoking pot and pissing dirty continually, like has been theorized by some.

I could see a decision being made about the drug monitoring he's scheduled to take part in after his suspension without information released yet because it doesn't change his suspension. To announce he won't be part of the program while continuing his suspension would probably raise more questions from fans than anything so holding that back until he returns may be the right way to handle it, if it does get changed. I'm not saying it will or won't be changed, just that it's really the only thing that may have come from the appeal that we haven't heard about yet.

You can't be sure any of this is 100% true. He took a diuretic and all reports say there wasn't anything else in his system. Diuretics, to my knowledge, are not addictive drugs. So yes, while it may have masked something, but if they have no evidence of whatever was masked, how can you force him into a drug program? How do you build a drug program for a guy that for all intents and purposes, didn't do any drugs?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You can't be sure any of this is 100% true. He took a diuretic and all reports say there wasn't anything else in his system. Diuretics, to my knowledge, are not addictive drugs. So yes, while it may have masked something, but if they have no evidence of whatever was masked, how can you force him into a drug program? How do you build a drug program for a guy that for all intents and purposes, didn't do any drugs?

A) no, no reports say “there was t anything else in his system.” The reports say they didn’t find anything else. There’s a difference between those statements. Also, the whole point of taking a diuretic is to mask aka hide other things. So it’s possible they existed. We don’t know.
B) you build a drug program however you and the union agree. If this slaps him into the program it does. The rules govern these things. So if masking was collectively bargained to dump him into the program, too bad, so sad, he’s in the program. The thing is, the players are given the rules. It isn’t like this stuff is sprung on them. Others, in large volume, seem capable of not running afoul of them, so they can’t be that difficult or obtuse. As a player you just kinda can’t be dumb about it. Know the rules, only hire people that are proven to know what they are recommending is within the rules if you’re not going to pay attention yourself. And if you even have any question about something, don’t put it in your body.

 

[Chaplin]

A) no, no reports say “there was t anything else in his system.” The reports say they didn’t find anything else. There’s a difference between those statements. Also, the whole point of taking a diuretic is to mask aka hide other things. So it’s possible they existed. We don’t know.

. You're right, we don't know. However, unless there is information out there that hasn't been leaked (possible, but unknown), based on the information we do have, you are basing this strictly on intent, and is circumstantial at best. According to reports, regardless of how you word it, there were no illegal substances in his body other than the diuretic.

B) you build a drug program however you and the union agree. If this slaps him into the program it does. The rules govern these things. So if masking was collectively bargained to dump him into the program, too bad, so sad, he’s in the program. The thing is, the players are given the rules. It isn’t like this stuff is sprung on them. Others, in large volume, seem capable of not running afoul of them, so they can’t be that difficult or obtuse. As a player you just kinda can’t be dumb about it. Know the rules, only hire people that are proven to know what they are recommending is within the rules if you’re not going to pay attention yourself. And if you even have any question about something, don’t put it in your body.

You don't even know if a drug program is even in play, and the question still remains -- how do you build a drug program in a case like this? The only way you could do it is if Ayton admitted to actually doing something that the diuretic was supposed to cover up. Right now, we have no evidence he's done that.

 

[gimpy]

Well, I would "guess" (that means I don't know ) that either what he got caught doing, taking, etc. was pretty egregious or that that it is not a first offense. Just my thinking.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You can't be sure any of this is 100% true. He took a diuretic and all reports say there wasn't anything else in his system. Diuretics, to my knowledge, are not addictive drugs. So yes, while it may have masked something, but if they have no evidence of whatever was masked, how can you force him into a drug program? How do you build a drug program for a guy that for all intents and purposes, didn't do any drugs?

Well. The simple answer to your question is that if it's in the CBA he will be in the program. It really does not have to make sense.

 

[GatorAZ]

All that matters is he took a banned substance, cost the teams wins, cost himself money... An athlete that’s demanding of himself will use it as motivation to prove he can be trusted and prove that he can dominate naturally. Also the fact the guy they passed on for you is looking like an MVP candidate already. We’ll see if he’s driven by all of it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

All that matters is he took a banned substance, cost the teams wins, cost himself money... An athlete that’s demanding of himself will use it as motivation to prove he can be trusted and prove that he can dominate naturally. Also the fact the guy they passed on for you is looking like an MVP candidate already. We’ll see if he’s driven by all of it.

If being the first pick in the NBA draft doesn't do it, why would this? Ayton has to be a person who is demanding of himself for this type of reaction to happen. He does not seem to be. He might be if he grows up a little. We can hope.

 

[Hoop Head]

You can't be sure any of this is 100% true. He took a diuretic and all reports say there wasn't anything else in his system. Diuretics, to my knowledge, are not addictive drugs. So yes, while it may have masked something, but if they have no evidence of whatever was masked, how can you force him into a drug program? How do you build a drug program for a guy that for all intents and purposes, didn't do any drugs?

There is a SPED program in place that Ayton will now be part of because he failed his test. This was discussed when the suspension was announced. Even though he only tested positive for a diuretic, those are treated as a failed test for PED because they're used to mask use of PED's.


Here is an article that touches on that, it's from Sports Illustrated.

The NBA’s drug policy also specifies punishments. The first time a player tests positive for a SPED or diuretic he automatically faces a 25-game suspension. This is a substantial punishment: it reflects approximately 31% of the regular season. Here, such a suspension will cost Ayton $2.17 million, not to mention deprive the Suns of their starting center and, after guard Devin Booker, their top player. There are still other consequences for Ayton. His positive test ensures that he’s now in the NBA’s SPED Program, which will require him to provide various health care materials to the SPED Medical Director and be subject to additional testing. Should Ayton, 21, test positive a second time during his NBA career, he would face an automatic 55-game suspension; a third offense would warrant a two-year ban from the league.

 

[Chaplin]

There is a SPED program in place that Ayton will now be part of because he failed his test. This was discussed when the suspension was announced. Even though he only tested positive for a diuretic, those are treated as a failed test for PED because they're used to mask use of PED's.


Here is an article that touches on that, it's from Sports Illustrated.

Thank you

Everyone can commence with the apocalypse.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

. You're right, we don't know. However, unless there is information out there that hasn't been leaked (possible, but unknown), based on the information we do have, you are basing this strictly on intent, and is circumstantial at best. According to reports, regardless of how you word it, there were no illegal substances in his body other than the diuretic.

You don't even know if a drug program is even in play, and the question still remains -- how do you build a drug program in a case like this? The only way you could do it is if Ayton admitted to actually doing something that the diuretic was supposed to cover up. Right now, we have no evidence he's done that.

The first bolded comment above is wrong. You can’t say there was no other drug. We don’t know that. If the diuretic was effective it masks it so you can’t find it. There might also be new synthetics that don’t show up on tests. The proper comment would be we don’t know if there were other drugs as they haven’t shown up. And that’s not regardless of how you word it, that’s accurately worded.

The second bolder comment is also wrong. If the league and union agreed in a cba that diuretics trigger a drug program that’s the rule. Ayton getting busted with the diuretic is all that was necessary to put him in a drug program. There’s zero necessity for any type of admission.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well. The simple answer to your question is that if it's in the CBA he will be in the program. It really does not have to make sense.

And if it was bargained for and agreed to by both parties I almost guarantee there was reasoning behind whatever rule is in play. The cba’s for professional leagues are voluminous and bargained for with armies of attorneys on both sides.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There is a SPED program in place that Ayton will now be part of because he failed his test. This was discussed when the suspension was announced. Even though he only tested positive for a diuretic, those are treated as a failed test for PED because they're used to mask use of PED's.


Here is an article that touches on that, it's from Sports Illustrated.

Yup that all makes sense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Thank you

Everyone can commence with the apocalypse.

Lol

 

[BC867]

I hate to think it, but it looks like the curse of "the flip" is still with us fifty years later.

Well, if it keeps the Suns from tanking . . .

 

[Chaplin]

The first bolded comment above is wrong. You can’t say there was no other drug. We don’t know that. If the diuretic was effective it masks it so you can’t find it. There might also be new synthetics that don’t show up on tests. The proper comment would be we don’t know if there were other drugs as they haven’t shown up. And that’s not regardless of how you word it, that’s accurately worded.

It's NOT wrong. You basically proved that in your very next sentence. Vague, maybe, but not wrong.

The second bolder comment is also wrong. If the league and union agreed in a cba that diuretics trigger a drug program that’s the rule. Ayton getting busted with the diuretic is all that was necessary to put him in a drug program. There’s zero necessity for any type of admission.

Thanks for simply repeating what Hoop Head said. I wasn't put in my place when he wrote it, but boy, I sure am now!

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not sure if this has been posted but general manager James Jones was on Arizona Sports 98.7 FM yesterday and gave this update on Ayton.

“He’ll be ready. He’s been working tirelessly. He’s been really good,” Jones said. “Every facet of it, from the weight room, from conditioning level, from his skill work, his post-practice and pregame routine — he’s been functioning and executing at a high level.


“So I think he’ll be good. The toughest thing when he comes back will be the adjustment, getting reacclimated to NBA tempo. But from a skill perspective, from a physical perspective, he looks really, really good.”

article by Kellan Olson

https://arizonasports.com/story/217...suspended-deandre-ayton-will-reintegrate-him/

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's NOT wrong. You basically proved that in your very next sentence. Vague, maybe, but not wrong.

Thanks for simply repeating what Hoop Head said. I wasn't put in my place when he wrote it, but boy, I sure am now!

Chap you cannot say he didn’t have anything in his system. That’s a definitive statement. It’s making an assertion of fact. It’s not a fact. It’s conjecture. That makes your statement wrong.

and I wasn’t piling on. I respond as I read. I don’t read ahead and then go back searching for posts to which to respond.

 

[Chaplin]

Chap you cannot say he didn’t have anything in his system. That’s a definitive statement. It’s making an assertion of fact. It’s not a fact. It’s conjecture. That makes your statement wrong.

and I wasn’t piling on. I respond as I read. I don’t read ahead and then go back searching for posts to which to respond.

According to the tests (and all news of this thus far), he had nothing else besides the diuretic in his system. That's a fact. Are you disputing that?

Now, if you're saying, "He had a diuretic, he MUST have had something else even though the other tests came back negative!" Well, that is definitely conjecture. Maybe it's true, we don't know, because as far as we know there is no other definitive evidence he had anything else in his system.

 

[Covert Rain]

According to the tests (and all news of this thus far), he had nothing else besides the diuretic in his system. That's a fact. Are you disputing that?

Now, if you're saying, "He had a diuretic, he MUST have had something else even though the other tests came back negative!" Well, that is definitely conjecture. Maybe it's true, we don't know, because as far as we know there is no other definitive evidence he had anything else in his system.

Correction, he had nothing else in his system that they could test for or detect because the diuretic WORKED. FACT: designer PEDs are always a year or two ahead of testing. FACT: diuretics work on some current substances. The lack of evidence he had other substances is inconsequential. That's why the rule against diuretics exists. In the leagues eyes they are just as bad as PED's.

Sure, you are right we will probably never know. However, it stretches credibility at this point (without a successful appeal) he wasn't using something else.

All I hope is the kid learned his lessons and doesn't do anything stupid again or sets back his own development. This team is in desperate need of him right now.