Deandre Ayton and Rookie expectations

[Yuma]

Hopefully, that will change this coming season with Sarver taking steps
back from his micro-managing and his hire of Monty. And hopefully, with
his turning the team over to Jones. We're pulling for him, even though
he didn't earn the promotion.

I am not blaming Ayton. Like I said, he played like he did at UofA. Whether he refused to change, or the Suns let him play that way I don't know. I am kind of thinking Igor wanted a switching offense. That seemed to be in vogue, having guys interchangeable switching on defense. I don't want my bigs switching like that. As we have seen, especially this playoffs, guards just take advantage of that. I do hope Monty Williams changes the way we use Ayton. Hopefully he will stay closer to the paint.

 

[GatorAZ]

Ayton played his one year at UofA at Power Forward. He was not the Center.

It takes a talented big-man coach to teach him to play Center without any
history of it beyond High School. And the Suns (evidently) did not have that
Assistant Coach.

Blaming Ayton (and Booker and all of the Small Forwards covering Power
Forward) is unfair to the players.

Hopefully, that will change this coming season with Sarver taking steps
back from his micro-managing and his hire of Monty. And hopefully, with
his turning the team over to Jones. We're pulling for him, even though
he didn't earn the promotion.

So in 5 years when Ayton is still playing like LaMarcus Aldridge are you going to bring up his one year at UofA?

 

[Sunburn]

I am not blaming Ayton. Like I said, he played like he did at UofA. Whether he refused to change, or the Suns let him play that way I don't know. I am kind of thinking Igor wanted a switching offense. That seemed to be in vogue, having guys interchangeable switching on defense. I don't want my bigs switching like that. As we have seen, especially this playoffs, guards just take advantage of that. I do hope Monty Williams changes the way we use Ayton. Hopefully he will stay closer to the paint.

Ayton is an excellent perimeter defender. I want to take advantage of that.

 

[BC867]

So in 5 years when Ayton is still playing like LaMarcus Aldridge are you going to bring up his one year at UofA?

Rather the inexperience of a kid from the Bahamas at playing Center in organized basketball.

He needed leadership to develop at Center in his first season and did not receive it.

Ayton is an excellent perimeter defender. I want to take advantage of that.

And who is defending the post while our Center is defending the perimeter? The Small Forwards playing
Power Forward?

As Casey Stengel said about the expansion Mets, "Does anyone here know how to play this game?"

Does management?

 

[AzStevenCal]

So in 5 years when Ayton is still playing like LaMarcus Aldridge are you going to bring up his one year at UofA?

It's funny that we now use LMA as an insult and just a handful of years ago people were arguing in favor of him as the best forward in the game.

 

[GatorAZ]

It's funny that we now use LMA as an insult and just a handful of years ago people were arguing in favor of him as the best forward in the game.

It would be more of a letdown given his physical gifts but you can’t argue with production I suppose...

 

[Yuma]

Would be kinda fun to see Bol Bol at Center and Ayton at our PF! Maybe Tacko at center! LOL. Maybe a different way to fill our PF vacancy!

 

[Sunburn]

Would be kinda fun to see Bol Bol at Center and Ayton at our PF! Maybe Tacko at center! LOL. Maybe a different way to fill our PF vacancy!

Bol Bol's 3 point shooting interests me. I'd have no problem burning our 32 on Tacko.

 

[Mainstreet]

I have interest in Neemias Queta at #32.

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Also Mfiondu Kabengele if he lasts to #32 and Shamorie Ponds.

 

[SunsTzu]

I have interest in Neemias Queta at #32.

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Also Mfiondu Kabengele if he lasts to #32 and Shamorie Ponds.

Kabengele is one of my favorites in the draft. Honestly like him more than a lot of the guys being talked about at #6. I don't think he lasts until 32 so my ideal scenario right now would involve trades that result in packaging picks Warren &/or Jackson for an established playmaker and a mid-late first to use on Kabengele.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Would be kinda fun to see Bol Bol at Center and Ayton at our PF! Maybe Tacko at center! LOL. Maybe a different way to fill our PF vacancy!

Actually, I think it would be the opposite. Bol Bol is a pf IMO.

 

[Mainstreet]

Kabengele is one of my favorites in the draft. Honestly like him more than a lot of the guys being talked about at #6. I don't think he lasts until 32 so my idet al scenario right now would involve trades that result in packaging picks Warren &/or Jackson for an established playmaker and a mid-late first to use on Kabengele.

I said earlier this would be not a bad draft to trade down unless the Suns want to draft Garland or White.

Kabengele is one of those reasons.

He is going to be one of those solid players like Millsap leaving everyone scratching their head why he wasn't drafted earlier.

 

[Yuma]

I said earlier this would be not a bad draft to trade down unless the Suns want to draft Garland or White.

Kabengele is one of those reasons.

He is going to be one of those solid players like Millsap leaving everyone scratching their head why he wasn't drafted earlier.

The problem is who wants to trade up? Someone wants to move up to take Coby White? We are talking about having to settle for him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Actually, I think it would be the opposite. Bol Bol is a pf IMO.

Except he just weighed in at 208. At 7’2. Yeesh.

 

[Mainstreet]

The problem is who wants to trade up? Someone wants to move up to take Coby White? We are talking about having to settle for him.

It's a good question. This is not a talent rich draft at the top where teams want to move up.

Also I think Coby White will be better than some think.

If the Suns do not like the point guards I can see them easily trading the pick.

I am intrigued by Kabengele if the opportunity presents itself.

 

[Cardsmasochist]

Suns center Deandre Ayton named finalist for Rookie of the Year

Phoenix Suns center Deandre Ayton was named a finalist for the NBA’s 2018-19 Rookie of the Year Friday, the NBA announced.

Ayton, the No. 1 overall pick in the 2018 NBA Draft, was the only rookie to average a double-double. Ayton’s 10.3 rebounds per game was the top mark among rookies and his 16.3 points per game ranked fourth behind Luka Doncic, Trae Young and Collin Sexton.

The 20-year-old’s rookie season was the most efficient historically given his production levels. Ayton is one of 35 rookies to average at least 16 points and 10 rebounds a game and his 60.8 TS% is the best of them all. Ayton is the the third rookie this decade to average a double-double, joining Blake Griffin and Karl-Anthony Towns.

Who had the better rookie year and who do would you rather have, D Ayton or Luka Doncic?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[AzStevenCal]

Who had the better rookie year and who do would you rather have, D Ayton or Luka Doncic?

Doncic had a greater impact and should be ROY. I'll still take Ayton in the long run but can't fault anyone for taking Doncic or even Young over him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Doncic had a greater impact and should be ROY. I'll still take Ayton in the long run but can't fault anyone for taking Doncic or even Young over him.

I’m in the same boat

 

[Sunburn]

Lol I don't understand this ayton in the long run viewpoint. Doncic is younger than Ayton. He's going to improve also, which is scary, because the kid is already nails. He's a special, special player. The game just comes easy to him. Ayton is not going to overcome Doncic's preternatural feel for the game to become the better player. I like DeAndre, but anyone that is sticking with ayton over doncic just seems like homerism to me.

 

[Dante]

Mavs got a good one in Doncic but I'll still take Ayton over him any day of the week and no one can convince me otherwise. The kid has so much potential and is already a walking double-double at 20 years old. I am super excited to see him grow as a Phoenix Sun for many years to come.

 

[Hoop Head]

Lol I don't understand this ayton in the long run viewpoint. Doncic is younger than Ayton. He's going to improve also, which is scary, because the kid is already nails. He's a special, special player. The game just comes easy to him. Ayton is not going to overcome Doncic's preternatural feel for the game to become the better player. I like DeAndre, but anyone that is sticking with ayton over doncic just seems like homerism to me.

They are very different players. Think back a few years with Embiid. If his health didn't knock him down a few spots, he would have been the #1 pick. Even still, I bet the Timberwolves would rather have him than Wiggins. Wiggins made an impact right away but does that matter when the big is someone you can build a title contender around when they hit their prime? Will Wiggins ever be a part of a title team? I know Ayton and Doncic are different but the point still stands, franchise bigs are more valuable than franchise wings. They take a little longer to pan out but if they do, you are vaulted into contention because of them. The odds of a wing alone leading you to the playoffs or to compete for a title? Not happening.

Unless there is a health issue, you always take the big over the wing. Even if there is health concerns, you weight those carefully before making the call. That's why Oden went before Durant. People knew KD would be really good, probably not an MVP but Oden was projected to be one of the best defensive bigs ever. Until news came out about how bad Oden's knees were, Portland got a pass for taking him when KD was scoring 20+ ppg as a rookie.

Ayton doesn't have Oden or Embiid's health issues. He's not seen as good as them defensively but almost all the analysts predicted him to be better offensively. There's a reason he was compared to Shaq, David Robinson, Hakeem. He could go down as the one of the greats if he's healthy and improves as projected.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Lol I don't understand this ayton in the long run viewpoint. Doncic is younger than Ayton. He's going to improve also, which is scary, because the kid is already nails. He's a special, special player. The game just comes easy to him. Ayton is not going to overcome Doncic's preternatural feel for the game to become the better player. I like DeAndre, but anyone that is sticking with ayton over doncic just seems like homerism to me.

I tend to be an anti-homer, so allow me to explain my position.

I agree that doncic has “it.” And he already has it. Which means he’s less of a risk. And I don’t think he’s near his ceiling as others argue. I think he’ll be a top 5-10 player in the league at his peak. That’s lofty status. But due to his relative physical limitations (again saying relative, not that he’s not athletic), I believe with the right guy you might be able to bother his game just enough to overcome the mavs if they are only modestly successful in surrounding him with talent. In fact, I could see he and bridges having epic offense/defense battles for years if bridges continues to develop (he’s pretty advanced defensively already too).

On the other hand, Ayton put up some numbers that (a) none of us predicted; and (b) have some historical significance. And many of us were still disappointed because we could see the hint of what he could be. Couple that with the fact that (a) he cane to basketball later than most stars; and (b) most bigs take time to develop, and his upside is potentially astronomical. As in, rare will be the occasion when he faces a player capable of battling him. Now understand I’m certainly not all candy canes and rainbows. It means Ayton finding some nasty, making good in all the talk about learning, and his maximizing his potential.

I think Ayton hitting his peak is much less likely than doncic hitting his. But I think if they both do Ayton has the greater chance of bringing a championship.

Also if note, we are the suns. I don’t have much faith in Sarver and crew identifying and effectively adding the cast needed to support a peak doncic while I believe a peak Ayton doesn’t need as great support. So in the unlikely event they both reach their peak I don’t have to rely on Sarver as much.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Lol I don't understand this ayton in the long run viewpoint. Doncic is younger than Ayton. He's going to improve also, which is scary, because the kid is already nails. He's a special, special player. The game just comes easy to him. Ayton is not going to overcome Doncic's preternatural feel for the game to become the better player. I like DeAndre, but anyone that is sticking with ayton over doncic just seems like homerism to me.

They are six months apart in age. Doncic has significantly more experience than Ayton. Its fine to prefer Doncic if you like, but prefering the 7-1 Adonis, with skills is not silly.

 

[slinslin]

Doncic had a greater impact and should be ROY. I'll still take Ayton in the long run but can't fault anyone for taking Doncic or even Young over him.

But did he?

He has a negative net rating (net +-), his team performed better when he was on the bench AND the Mavs were 5-3 when Doncic did not play at all.

Also Aytons raw stat line was better.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But did he?

He has a negative net rating (net +-), his team performed better when he was on the bench AND the Mavs were 5-3 when Doncic did not play at all.

Also Aytons raw stat line was better.

I've said this before but I believe Luka gets more favorable press than he deserves and less negative attention than his play sometimes warranted and the reverse has been true of Ayton. But having said that and even with your stats on Doncic, it's also true he repeatedly came up huge in big moments like we've never seen from a rookie. I think he's special and going to get better. I just think Ayton will improve even more and while he may never match Luka's killer instinct and sense of the moment, Doncic will never have Deandre's size, quickness, athleticism or physical strength in a game that rewards all four of those attributes.