Dateline NBC last night and Green?

[Russ Smith]

After reading Skorp's practice story, and watching Dateline NBC last night can't help but have mixed emotions. I'm thrilled we have a coach who coaches, works hard and demands his players work hard, no more coach trying to be buddies stuff.

But if you saw Dateline last night you can't help but hope that Green and his staff are doing things a little differently this time around in regards to players safety? The story last night was specifically about the tragic death of Korey Stringer, and the series of lawsuits brought by his widow against the team, the coaches(Green at the time) and now the NFL. So far all of her suits have been thrown out, the one against the NFL is pending.

The claim is that Green worked the team so hard during a heatwave, that Stringer was throwing up repeatedly and being ridiculed by Green and his staff for being so out of shape. One day later he collapsed on the field, was helped off by an assistant trainer who gave him some liquids, never took his temperature, and then left him alone for nearly an hour. When they finally realized Stringer was in trouble they rushed him to a hospital, but he died. The official take is he died from heatstroke in part due to Ephedra because he was using "ripped fuel". Problem is they apparently found no traces of ephedra in his system, just the can of ripped fuel in his locker. His wife all but accused the Vikings of planting the can as a coverup, she didn't say this but said repeatedly he wasn't using the stuff.

hard to say what really happened and what's being fabricated by his wife in an effort to win her huge lawsuit with the NFL, but it was a little sobering to compare that to Skorp's story.

Rip away, I'm glad we hired Green and I think he'll make the team better, I guess I'm just hoping that the past tragedy taught the whole NFL a lesson about working players too hard in extreme heat.

 

[AZCB34]

**sarcasm alert**

How dare you even think of questioning the great Dennis Green? He is a genius. Green was trying to weed out the non-hackers and Stringer didn't cut it. I hope you never ever again question Denny or his minions will surely hunt you down and convince you otherwise.

**end sarcasm alert**

I am convinced Dennis Green will make the Buddy Ryan experiment look like a success before all is said and done.

 

[conraddobler]

I think Green chose his target pretty carefully. He probably couldn't have walked into an established contender and pulled the things he will here but to some extent the Cardinals needed this.

You are right though Russ if he dosen't factor in the extreme heat here during practices later the players won't last. I have a really hard time with coaches who don't respect heat. Heat stroke can happen to anyone and you aren't less of a man because you need a break to avoid it.

We will see about his success I think he pulls all the right strings and runs the thing the way it should be run.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think Green chose his target pretty carefully. He probably couldn't have walked into an established contender and pulled the things he will here but to some extent the Cardinals needed this.

You are right though Russ if he dosen't factor in the extreme heat here during practices later the players won't last. I have a really hard time with coaches who don't respect heat. Heat stroke can happen to anyone and you aren't less of a man because you need a break to avoid it.

We will see about his success I think he pulls all the right strings and runs the thing the way it should be run.

That's the part of the story that disturbed me, the Vikings said hey there was a water cart on the field, if he was dehydrating, he should have been drinking water. His wife put it bluntly, look they're showing pictures on tv and in the paper of korey throwing up, the coaches are mocking it, you really think he's going to walk over and drink water on his own in that environment, it's up to the staff to monitor it and make sure the players are hydrated.

To be clear, I'm not blaming Dennis Green for the death of Stringer, although his wife clearly to some extent does, I'm just saying based on what was said and what I'm reading now, he clearly has a mentality somewhat Frank Kush like,and I really hope he at least has learned the importance of water in a hot environment. Hopefully someone like Jim O knows this stuff for a fact and will post telling us that the Cards are well aware of this. Obviously we've been in Arizona too long for it to be a surprise to anybody, but this is Green's first minicamp so it may be a surprise to HIM.

 

[conraddobler]

Really you are caught in a catch 22 here because Mac was way the other way and because of that players used some of his compassion as a crutch then you bring in DG and it goes from one end of the spectrum to the other.

You can be a complete dictator and still emphasize proper hydration. Hydration is all based on science and it is a fact not a physical weakness you need tons of water in a desert enviroment thats a major duh.

I like the story I saw on I think the discovery channel of a couple who were sight seeing in the Australian desert. They got stuck next to a water storage device but panicked about no one ever comming to get them and so the best walker, the woman set off to a town about I think 25 miles away to get help while the guy sat by the water tank.

The guy lived and was picked up a few days later the lady died about 5 miles from him and they theorized that to make that walk she would have had to carry more than her own weight in water to survive.

 

[vikesfan]

**sarcasm alert**

How dare you even think of questioning the great Dennis Green? He is a genius. Green was trying to weed out the non-hackers and Stringer didn't cut it. I hope you never ever again question Denny or his minions will surely hunt you down and convince you otherwise.

**end sarcasm alert**

I am convinced Dennis Green will make the Buddy Ryan experiment look like a success before all is said and done.

Okay so you are not going to even give DG a chance. Great attitude. His record. The changes he has made. The moves he has made none of that matters. You compare him to a coach who couldn't hold his jockstrap and say that coach reign will be better. If DG can't make the Cards into a winner then be prepared for NEVER EVER having a winner here and lots of empty seats. Nothing factual to support your comment on DG vs Ryan - not one thing!

As for the Kory thing it was Tice not Green who made fun of Kory. She has lost her lawsuits if DG did something wrong he would have lost the lawsuit.

 

[Pariah]

If DG can't make the Cards into a winner then be prepared for NEVER EVER having a winner here and lots of empty seats.

Well now, that's seems a little extreme...

 

[Sandan]

Heatstroke and keeping hydrated are a little more high profile herre than in Mn.

There are water carts everywhere, it's the one thing players break for all the time

 

[Brighteyes]

From my two days watching, there was plenty of water, and people were able to help themselves whenever they wished. It's not quite that bad.

What they couldn't do was get annoyed at a coach or player, and then take the next play off. Likewise, when drill time stopped, and everyone was to move to another part of the field, you couldn't just shuffle over -- you had to sprint across with energy.

Frankly, I don't think it'll hurt any professional athlete to put out for an hour and forty-five minutes.

 

[vikesfan]

Well now, that's seems a little extreme...

Yes it is a little extreme. Maybe I should have said for the forseeable future. If a 2 time coach of the year in the NFL and NCAA coach of the year and with the record he created: Top Ten in nfl history - if he can't do it - maybe the team is cursed like the Cubs and Red Sox.
I shouldn't have said never maybe highly unlikely is a better term.

There were water carts in MIN too Kory choose not to use them. People have to take some personal responsibility once in a while. Tice should not have made fun of him but that did not kill him.

 

[football karma]

The Cardinals are up on hydration, and making a point of it to their players.

I have been surprised by how behind the curve many NFL teams are regarding hydration – as evidenced by the fact that in those early season “cooker” games at Sun Devil Stadium, its always three or four guys from the visiting team flying home hooked up to an IV. I read somewhere that the Cardinals haven’t had to give an IV in like 6 years or something.

I think the Stringer tragedy could have happened to almost any NFL team. I don’t think Green and his staff are unique in pushing players, questioning their effort, etc.

 

[Jim O]

The Cardinals have ALWAYS stressed the importance of hydration to their players. They have had to give IV's to only a handful of players since they came to Arizona in 1988.

It is not uncommon for the visiting players to leave the field to go get IV's during the game. There are stories every year where visiting teams have had players getting IV's on their charter flights from Phoenix after playing a game here. A few of the visiting players have been hospitalized in Phoenix following a game.

I travel with the team on the road and bottled water is available everywhere you go. Before boarding the busses, there is bottled water available at the training facility. As you make your way to the plane, there is bottled water in the jetway. When you sit down in your seat, there is bottled water in the seatback pockets. When you get to your room, there is bottled water there too. When you go to pre game meal, there is bottled water there. When you get to the locker room...bottled water. The key is that the Cardinals make bottled water available EVERYWHERE the player goes. Some people, including myself, might be too lazy to get it on their own. It is much easier to stay hydrated is water is readily available.

When the Cardinals travel to other cities, the visiting clubhouse guys are always amazed by the fluid consumption by the Cardinals. They say even when it is a cold weather game, the Cardinals drink a huge amount of water. Living in a climate such as the Phoenix area, the players are used to drinking a ton of water.

Here is part of an article from azcentral:

Link

Cardinals trainer John Omohundro said he can tell by the color of urine if enough fluids have been consumed. It is closely monitored through the season. The darker the urine, the less hydrated the person.

"The urine checks are really important for guys to do," he said. "You weigh in and weigh out after every practice. It's important to know how the people are coming back and restoring their fluids from one practice to the next. It's a very easy formula: A pint is a pound the world around. So, if you lose two pounds, you've lost two pints, so you have to replace that so you're not in deficit."

You can never be too cautious about hydration...especially in Arizona. That is why proper hydration has been stressed by the Cardinals and why it will be stressed in the future.

 

[football karma]

"Cardinals trainer John Omohundro said he can tell by the color of urine if enough fluids have been consumed. It is closely monitored through the season. The darker the urine, the less hydrated the person."


Ahhh -- the glamorous life of the NFL trainer.

 

[Lars the Red]

The desert changes attitudes about many subjects.

Hydration is just one of them. The NFL learned a valuable lesson with the Stringer tragedy, but the players too have learned from that. What happened to Stringer was a product of both the Vikings and Stringer making mistakes. When Cory began to get sick, due in large part because of his poor conditioning, the coaches and trainers should have ridiculed him all the way over to the Gatorade and had him loading back up with fluids. Stringer, being a professional athlete that relied on his body to make a living, should never have come into camp in the dreadful shape he was in. No one in their right mind should believe they can practice themselves into shape when playing competitive sports.

The training staff here will be on top of things and after this 'voluntary' camp, the boys will be coming into the real camp in the right condition to be healthy and compete. For what it's worth, 90 degrees in the desert isn't like 90 degrees in August in Minn. The humidity, which is truly crippling is essentually a non factor here. In Minni, it's like someone dropped a piano on your back. Guys will recognize what is expected of them and be prepared for the worst.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

As for the Kory thing it was Tice not Green who made fun of Kory. She has lost her lawsuits if DG did something wrong he would have lost the lawsuit.

though i agree that dg should be given the benefit of the doubt, this statement is just silly. the courts don't always have all the evidence, are not always correct in their determinations, and are certainly not the ultimate indicator of what's "right" or "wrong." as an attorney i'm telling you that you're placing waaaaaay too much emphasis on whether or not an individual won a suit or not.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

i'm glad to hear, but not surprised, that the cards make hydration so important. i remember back to two-a-days in high school when a football player from sky ridge (i think - they were the seahawks . . . in az, whatever) died from heat stroke. the next year I actually was a victim. i wanted to ask my position coach a question about a drill and the idiot thought i was mouthing off to him (w/o waiting to hear what my question was . . . and i was the friggin captain of the team!) so he kept making me run ucla's. after the 10th one i found myself staring at stars. see, w/o even knowing it i passed out and ended up on my back, when i opened my eyes all i saw was the august night sky. head coach had two teammates help me back to the lockerroom where i repeatedly gave them my locker combination. they couldn't open the locker. i got annoyed (and was still outta my head) and asked what friggin numbers they were using. they repeated the numbers that i gave 'em and i started shouting at them that they were idiots 'cuz those weren't my numbers (like i said, i was OUT on my feet). when my pops (a surgeon) got there he was PISSED. my moms was freakin' out when i got home and pops made me drink a case of gatorade. sucked. but i was back at practice the next day.

i remember that back then water was used as goad. we didn't get water whenever we wanted ('til that boy died), we got it as a prize for doing something well. water breaks were timed, not as necessary. i hope that the old school high school coaches in az have gotten with the times. hydration is crucial.

 

[conraddobler]

Legal right and wrong does not equal ethical right and wrong see the current Tyco trial fiasco for proof of that.

The whole Stringer thing probably, at least one would hope, taught DG a lesson.

He at the very least has to know it can happen now and be more aware than ever so if he lacks anything on hydration with all the Cardinal trainers and knowledge about it then I'd be absolutely shocked.

When you look at the whole situation, DG picked us out of at least two or three possibilities and signed on for a realitively modest amount. That means those of us who felt we have talent that was just poorly coached, motivated, game planned were in the same camp as DG.

I know we will improve it is just a question of how much. Hope always springs eternal this time of year but for the first time in years I am optimistic about things without having to go through huge what ifs to get there.

 

[Brighteyes]

"Cardinals trainer John Omohundro said he can tell by the color of urine if enough fluids have been consumed. It is closely monitored through the season. The darker the urine, the less hydrated the person."


Jimmy O --

I don't know what they pay your father -- but it's not enough.

 

[Southpaw]

How about this. Every team should have a common sense coach present at all practices and games. Most coaches, including the Teflon coated Dennis Green, are not Mensa candidates. If some assistant coach is directly at fault, then the head coach should be responsible for allowing the stupidity to take place. Machoism and stupidity are not excuses for life threatening situations. If a head coach allows this to take place under his watch, then absolution from guilt is inexcusable. Why didn't some coach walk over to Kory and tell him to hydrate and recuperate? You wonder where the cliche, " he has to be told to come in from the rain" comes from. Here you go.

Some would have us believe that it's just the press falsely accusing Dennis Green. BS. The guy is dead. It happened and it was his staff.

Way back when I played HIgh School ball our head coach would cut any player who attempted to drink water during practice. Well one day the team quit en masse and he had to reconsider his policies. He was later fired for his extreme methodology.

P.S. Before some one gets all excited, he was a white redneck.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Legal right and wrong does not equal ethical right and wrong see the current Tyco trial fiasco for proof of that.

Ugh....don't even mention Dennis Kolowski...My dad works for TYCO, and he cost my dad around $200,000...

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ripped fuel and ephedra

Because it is an amphetamine like substance, ephedra gets out of your system rather quickly, around 10-12 hours. It's such a toxic substance that your body rids itself of it quickly.

Drugs like ecstasy, cocaine, heroin, etc. all get out your system within a day or so, since all are such toxic substances. Marijuana doesn't, since your body can easily handle even high amounts of THC and the other associated chemicals.

Stringer probably took some ripped fuel, and by the time he died, his body had already metabolised it.

 

[Southpaw]

Ugh....don't even mention Dennis Kolowski...My dad works for TYCO, and he cost my dad around $200,000...

I get reminded twice a day of TYCO. Their Corporate offices are across the street from my community entrance. Biggest fattest TYCOsign right there for my constant reminder. Koslowski and Schwartz are corporate pigs who will squeal there way to a Golden Parachute. And somehow Martha Stewart will do hard time for a $51,000.00 screw up. Somehow Tyco makes this seem like chump change.

 

[AzCards21]

I wonder if camps will be moved indoors once the new stadium is up? Maybe the cost to cool the building would be prohibitive but at least there would be shade.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I get reminded twice a day of TYCO. Their Corporate offices are across the street from my community entrance. Biggest fattest TYCOsign right there for my constant reminder. Koslowski and Schwartz are corporate pigs who will squeal there way to a Golden Parachute. And somehow Martha Stewart will do hard time for a $51,000.00 screw up. Somehow Tyco makes this seem like chump change.

Did you hear about Koslowski's extravagant spending? $7,000 shower curtain!

If I saw Koslowski, I'd probably shoot him. He has literally forced my dad to have to work another 10 years until he can retire.

 

[Sandan]

I wonder if camps will be moved indoors once the new stadium is up? Maybe the cost to cool the building would be prohibitive but at least there would be shade.

I seriously doubt it. All the Cardinals facilities are in Tempe, the new sigs are just a stadium. They do have a nice facility, it is roumored to be one of (if not the) best in the NFL.