Coaching

[kerouac9]

Hey, guys. Someone cut me down from the shower rod that I was hanging myself on after Wednesday, so I figured I'd post something new to talk about while biting my fingernails over the next free agent signing...

The general idea of this thread is to ask the question: Why can't the Arizona Cardinal's coaching staff develop talent, particularly on Defense?

Look at the history: Simeon Rice was good here, made the Pro Bowl as an alternate, but didn't flourish until he went to Tampa. When he got there, he said that he was marinading here, and finally started cooking once he got out. Tommy Knight was supposed to be the next great shut-down corner when he was drafted, but never made The Leap. We all know that Adrian Wilson is supposed to be a monster play-maker, but he hasn't made The Leap yet, and, as his staunchest defender, even I'm starting to wonder if it's going to happen. We drafted KVB, but he hasn't done anything but move jerseys. We drafted Darrin (Darwin?) Walker, but released him for some reason.

On offense, everyone knew that Jake had nice talent, and exhibited it his first couple seasons, then he started regressing, and no one worked on him to go against his tendencies, which everyone exploited. McCown looked basically the same in his appearances during the regular season as he did in the first game of the preseason. Did he learn anything in 3/4 of a season as the backup? Have L.J. Shelton or Big improved since being drafted because of the techniques they've learned over the past two or three years, or are they still playing off size and talent?

The long and short of it is that coaching is so important to a young team. The problem that we've had all these seasons with no depth when people go down is because the backups aren't properly coached or prepared for coming in in those situations. The Packers were nearly as banged up as we were during the season, but they still played well, despite only having slightly better talent.

Thoughts?

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Thoughts

Yeah....at least one brain cell left.

I'll go out on a limb and say that everyone on this board who devalues the value....catchy huh....of KVB may be a tad off base.

Sure he didn't do much his first year....can you say injury....I knew you could.

Then of course you'll say he just doesn't have the sack stats to make him an all-pro....well he may never be an all-pro....but if we get 10 other guys with his fire and work ethic and some God given speed then we'll be just fine.....on D.

Offense is another matter......Jeff Blake is the cure.

 

[kerouac9]

That was something I forgot to mention: The pattern of injuries to players every year also seems to have some responsiblity on the coaching. No other team has the injury problems, year after year, that the Cards have, and coaches, players, and fans use that as an excuse season after season.

I think that guys with a "big motor," which everyone seems to say about KVB, are kind of overrated. Yeah, I guess he has a great motor, but he's a total non-factor on the field. I'm not sure there's a difference between him and Fred Wakefield.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Wakefield

Never been a big Wakefield fan....apparently others aren't as well

"His progress at LDE plateau'd last year, and (although he didn't play badly) could mean he'll have to take a back seat to either VDB or an outside veteran."

 

[BW52]

I don`t understand if you are saying that you think that the coaches don`t work the players hard enough to prevevnt injuries or if the coaches work them too hard and wear them down?Please explain.Ask for Hustle being overrated i disagree.As for KVB being a non factor doesn`t it usually take a year to get a knee completely back in playing condition? Let`s see what KVB does this seasonwhen he has completely rehabiltated his knee.Wakefield is a decent player and every team needs players like him.Overacheivers who can play and fill out your roster.

 

[JeffGollin]

Never been a big Wakefield fan....apparently others aren't as well
I've been a big fan from before he signed as an UFA. There's a lot of upside there - if he can learn his trade.

"His progress at LDE plateau'd last year
I can't disagree.

In any case, he represents a vast improvement as a backup over the journeymen before him - like Ottis and Drake.

 

[AntSports Steve]

Coaches - The Cards cannot bring in any of the superstar coaches. They get average coaches and assistants. Often below average (Buddy Ryan). While teams like Phi and TBB give new titles and big pay increses to keep their assistants coaches, the Cards usually end up letting their good ones go to other teams (Fassell).

Injuries - I belive the Cards injuries are about the same as other teams, but since the Cards scouting department in years past was understaffed, the talent level of the players and the depth of the team is lower than other teams. So when an injury happens, it affects the Cards more than other teams. In 2002, the Cards finally did things right. Everyone was bitching about paying for 3 quality OT (Shelton, Clemment, Big) but when Clemment went down, Big was able to fill in and the Cards line survived. Also Roundtree was a good find also. But most of the time, the Cards depth is thin, magifying the inpact of injuries.

Hope - Teams that are in the playoff hunt have players that try harder. If you belive you can win and make the playoffs, players put forth more effort. With the Cardinals, hope dies fast as the losses mount. Players stop giving it their all and that shows on the field. Players like Rice were just screwing off until they could get out of Arizona. Until the Cards have the same amount of Hope as the rest of the league, their players will underperform from the mid to end of the year.

This can only be fixed by the owner. They need to pay coaches and staff more money. Lock up the good ones with big contracts for longer period of time. Instead, we see entire staffs working without contracts at all. We see a Coach with 1 year left on his contract while Assistants have 2. Heck, we just hired several new coachs and only gave them 2 year contracts.

Poor more money into scouting, technology, video, facilities, more bennies for the players (like the Dallas mavs are taken care of).

Instead of putting the players in the Dorms at Flagstaff, find a nicer place where they can stay even when school starts. That way training camp wont' end early.

Just start doing things the right way, instead of the Cardinal way!

To field a winning team, you need to overspend in some years on the Cap and suffer those cap Hell years.

It looks to me like the Cards are not even trying to win. Note, I've been a ticketholder for all but the first year in Arizona and have see almost every home game.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Well Said

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Never been a big Wakefield fan....apparently others aren't as well
I've been a big fan from before he signed as an UFA. There's a lot of upside there - if he can learn his trade.

"His progress at LDE plateau'd last year
I can't disagree.

In any case, he represents a vast improvement as a backup over the journeymen before him - like Ottis and Drake.

Drake must have used mirrors and Ottis just never went past that journeyman tag.

In an area of extreme need he has filled in......if Colvin plays DE (sign him first) and Dennis Johnson is kept then he may get caught in a DE logjam.....I think he's better than Burke because Burke is strictly pass rush DE.....so if we sign Colvin the 2 pass rushers if Colvin plays DE would be he and Johnson......the two run stoppers would be Wakefield and KVB.....I think that's an NFL rotation....but what do I know.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

I'm Weird

I get in the same argument on the Card's baseball forum.

My stance is that we can win despite Tony LaRussa cause everyone hates his friggin guts.

I say the same here.....we can win despite the Bidwills....or is it Bidwells...who cares....anyways if we sign some FA's and get a decent draft we can beat the Bengals!!!

 

[CardinalChris]

I think McGinnis is an above average coahc but some of his choices in his staff are questionable and hinder player development. Injuries are a direct reflection of resources. I am given the impression that not a lot of money is spent on dieticians, trainers, message and yoga specialists as some other teams. I could be wrong. Paying a message therapist 50K to work for 'zona is cheaper than aches and pains that keep a player hurt. Does Arizona have a diet specialist? I think little things like this help or hurt a team.