Can we blame Vogel?

Superbone

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You are that guy Javier that woke up in 2027
I had never heard of this. I just looked it up. :D Speaking of parallel universes, I loved the TV show Fringe! Which also just reminded me of an even older TV show that dealt with parallel universes. Can't remember the name.

ETA: Found it. Sliders from 1995 starring Jerry O'Connell.
 

Covert Rain

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I think I just figured out how it happens. Mainstreet starts many of the threads so his name hyperlink is just below the thread title. I often browse on my iPad which is a touchscreen. My finger sometimes misses the the thread title and instead pops up Mainstreet’s window which has the Ignore button just above his name. I probably accidentally hit it when trying to make the window go away so I can try to open the thread again.
I have done that on my iPad (pushing things I don't mean to).
 

Yuma

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Whoa. You called it. Somehow I had Mainstreet on ignore. I have NO idea how that happened. It definitely was not intentional. I really was in the Twilight Zone where nobody knew what I was talking about. Crazy.

Is it really that easy to accidentally ignore someone? Thanks for figuring it out!
Maybe having Mainstreet on ignore is an ASFN PWI happening? :shrug:
 

Superbone

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Posting while intoxicated, suggesting that you'd have to be drunk to want to put Mainstreet on ignore would be my guess.
Ha! When I looked it up, the first thing that came up was Predominantly White Institutions. LOL. This makes much more sense! Hilarious. But no, I'm not much of a drinker. Just socially. It was more of a questionable interface/user error issue.
 

BirdGangThing

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if there was ever any doubt - i think the spurs sealed vogel's fate - we beat them with wemby - then pops had a chance to think about it and run it back a couple days later - we all saw what happened - and not only are they a lottery team but they were wembyless

when the west is as tight as it it is - and with the bs disappointing losses we suffered previously - that game was it for me - before that i just preferred he be fired but that game man - that was unforgivable garbage
 
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clyde2tw

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Our 3pt shooters are streaky of various degrees. When someone is not feeling it, and we are in big lead like 30pts in the 3rd qrt, why not try out some defense for offense rotation changes and cut the formers' playing time a bit? When a guy like Zion or Shai or Doncis is dominating, why not put in some defense specialists to manage the damage, which often outweighs the additional 3pt shooter's court effect.
 

Proximo

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Was just reading Gerald Borquet's latest article and the following paragraph kind of blew my mind.

What carries the Suns is their absurd efficiency. Despite ranking second in the league in frequency of shots that are "tightly" guarded and dead-last in frequency of shots that are "open," the Suns are still fourth in field-goal percentage and fifth in 3-point percentage. Simply put, they're the most elite shot-making team in the NBA. They just have to make sure they're managing the (expected) deficit in 3-point attempts.

Second in the league of tightly guarded shots? That is ABSURD with 3 scorers as good as the big 3.

Couple other very interesting facts:
Phoenix is 21-12 when they commit 13 turnovers or less (52-win pace), but fall to 23-19 when they commit 14 turnovers or more (45-win pace).
So essentially, the Suns are a 66-win team when they at least match their opponent in 3-point makes, and they're a 33-win team when they fail to do so.
When Phoenix records 30 assists or more, they're 20-3. When they fail to reach the 30-assist mark, they're 24-28. That's the difference between a 71-win team and a 38-win team.


Based on this article perhaps the coaching is an even bigger problem than I thought it was.
 

Yuma

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Was just reading Gerald Borquet's latest article and the following paragraph kind of blew my mind.

What carries the Suns is their absurd efficiency. Despite ranking second in the league in frequency of shots that are "tightly" guarded and dead-last in frequency of shots that are "open," the Suns are still fourth in field-goal percentage and fifth in 3-point percentage. Simply put, they're the most elite shot-making team in the NBA. They just have to make sure they're managing the (expected) deficit in 3-point attempts.

Second in the league of tightly guarded shots? That is ABSURD with 3 scorers as good as the big 3.

Couple other very interesting facts:
Phoenix is 21-12 when they commit 13 turnovers or less (52-win pace), but fall to 23-19 when they commit 14 turnovers or more (45-win pace).
So essentially, the Suns are a 66-win team when they at least match their opponent in 3-point makes, and they're a 33-win team when they fail to do so.
When Phoenix records 30 assists or more, they're 20-3. When they fail to reach the 30-assist mark, they're 24-28. That's the difference between a 71-win team and a 38-win team.


Based on this article perhaps the coaching is an even bigger problem than I thought it was.
Simple math. You have the best shooters. You get up more shots most nights you win. What can derail that? Turn overs. Giving the other team more shots, ie, second chance point attempts. Letting them get more offensive rebounds and put backs. Suns just not turn the ball over, actually get more second chance points, keep the other team from the previously mentioned stats and that's a W. We beat ourselves, essentially, most nights.
 

Proximo

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Simple math. You have the best shooters. You get up more shots most nights you win. What can derail that? Turn overs. Giving the other team more shots, ie, second chance point attempts. Letting them get more offensive rebounds and put backs. Suns just not turn the ball over, actually get more second chance points, keep the other team from the previously mentioned stats and that's a W. We beat ourselves, essentially, most nights.
Yes, and that is why the team is so frustrating. I just didn't realize how much was self inflicted till I read this article.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Was just reading Gerald Borquet's latest article and the following paragraph kind of blew my mind.

What carries the Suns is their absurd efficiency. Despite ranking second in the league in frequency of shots that are "tightly" guarded and dead-last in frequency of shots that are "open," the Suns are still fourth in field-goal percentage and fifth in 3-point percentage. Simply put, they're the most elite shot-making team in the NBA. They just have to make sure they're managing the (expected) deficit in 3-point attempts.

Second in the league of tightly guarded shots? That is ABSURD with 3 scorers as good as the big 3.

Couple other very interesting facts:
Phoenix is 21-12 when they commit 13 turnovers or less (52-win pace), but fall to 23-19 when they commit 14 turnovers or more (45-win pace).
So essentially, the Suns are a 66-win team when they at least match their opponent in 3-point makes, and they're a 33-win team when they fail to do so.
When Phoenix records 30 assists or more, they're 20-3. When they fail to reach the 30-assist mark, they're 24-28. That's the difference between a 71-win team and a 38-win team.


Based on this article perhaps the coaching is an even bigger problem than I thought it was.
The tightly guarded stat is the most damning of Vogel and his staff imo. Having three elite shot makers should create wide open shots and fewer double teams. But instead here we are.
 

Yuma

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The tightly guarded stat is the most damning of Vogel and his staff imo. Having three elite shot makers should create wide open shots and fewer double teams. But instead here we are.
You can have three exotic sports cars, but if you don't know how to drive them, you'll never be able to get the best performance.
 

BirdGangThing

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i think we all thought the playoffs would be bad but not that damn bad - game 4 vogel might as well have been playing whack a mole - that's the amount of strategy i saw in the desperateness that was on full display - at one point i thought he might pull out a voodoo doll of ant and start poking him right there on the court
 

nashman

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Playing Little after not seeing him in forever was hilariously desperate! What in the world Vogel just had no clue what he was doing. Yeah let’s throw a guy in there that hasn’t been part of the rotation all year in an elimination game sounds real smart! Should have used the bench more all year so maybe just maybe they have some consistency and are used to playing, and maybe cut down the minutes on your stars lol. Just an idiot all year if he keeps his job it’s just absurdity!
 

AsUpRoDiGy

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Just ask yourself, albeit a bad example, how much better would this team be with a coach like Spoelstra. This team was constantly out of position on defense, basically just stood around and played iso on offense, and never really seemed to have a gameplan. Even with the bad roster make-up and awful chemistry...this team severely underperformed. That falls on the coach. Vogel was in over his head, and it showed.
 

AzStevenCal

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Just ask yourself, albeit a bad example, how much better would this team be with a coach like Spoelstra. This team was constantly out of position on defense, basically just stood around and played iso on offense, and never really seemed to have a gameplan. Even with the bad roster make-up and awful chemistry...this team severely underperformed. That falls on the coach. Vogel was in over his head, and it showed.
I don't think Spo would have worked wonders with this squad, at least not overnight. I think he succeeds in large part to the system he is part of there, whereas we have none of the player development capability he has. I'd hire him tomorrow if I had the chance, I just don't think it's a quick immediate fix.
 

Proximo

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I don't think Spo would have worked wonders with this squad, at least not overnight. I think he succeeds in large part to the system he is part of there, whereas we have none of the player development capability he has. I'd hire him tomorrow if I had the chance, I just don't think it's a quick immediate fix.
Yeah he might not be able to. I think KD is not an easy guy to coach.

His specialty is getting the most out of role players, and we don't have many of those.
 

Mainstreet

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I don't think Spo would have worked wonders with this squad, at least not overnight. I think he succeeds in large part to the system he is part of there, whereas we have none of the player development capability he has. I'd hire him tomorrow if I had the chance, I just don't think it's a quick immediate fix.

I might look at one of Spoelstra's assistants, but I really don't know much about them. The Suns need to import a culture much like Monty Williams brought initially.
 

Raindog

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Hopefully, this is just a further example of Vogel being as clueless as he appears to be:

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clyde2tw

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Vogel should've been desperate after the very 1st game and brought reserves Okogie, Little and Roddy in, who are at least young enough and athletic enough to match Wolves' defense intensity. We broke down in every 2nd half of the series, due mainly to fatique of starters under on-court energetic pressures. Your shooters cannot seem to be able to score yet they cannot defend anything that allowed Wolves to much higher pts per game than regular season, what's there to lose to play some tough D, to use your subs to bump and tire their stars a bit, instead of using Beal for that pedestrian job? It's lack of any vision, both in-game and over a whole season, that ruined the team's chance at anything.
 

JerkFace

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I might look at one of Spoelstra's assistants, but I really don't know much about them. The Suns need to import a culture much like Monty Williams brought initially.

Chris Quinn is the lead assistant for the Heat and has been on the interview circuit the last couple of years. If we go with a guy with no head coaching experience he is tops on my list.
 

1982baskets

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To think Okogie, Roddy, level players could make a significant difference vs the likes of Edwards, McDaniels, Towns, Walker. Ridicilous.

Vogel wasn't able to get a lot out of this team, that's a fact. I'm sure he has to carry some blame. As does Beal, who makes enough or the same as 3 good players would. You need to build a real squad. What we have is team of misfits asking a coach to make it into something special.
 

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