Bryant charged with felony sexual assault

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by SirStefan32


All I am saying is that I think our legal system is the best in the entire world, I believe in it, and I will not question it.

Again, I apologize that I even gave you an idea that I believe that there are no mistakes in the system. I am just saying that it is the best one in the world.

Stefan

Hmmm....a pattern of Stefan not questioning authority....just kidding.

I do agree, however, that we do in fact have the best justice system. But to not question it is an affront to Democracy. You have to question everything, or you are just a lemming.

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
All I am saying is that I think our legal system is the best in the entire world, I believe in it, and I will not question it.

I think there is the problem. I agree we have a great legal system, but it must be questioned. Just as in Minority Report, we have to question the law, the government, for that is the only way to improve.

 

[SweetD]

So what if he if found not guilty in a crimal trial but is found guilty in a civil trial?

 

[JJ Slim]

Stefan, I've always had a pretty good opinion of you because you are usually level-headed and try to stick to the facts. But I can't believe how naive you are about our justice system. Sure it is one of the best in the world , if not the best. But it is not even close to being perfect.

The people who trust the justice system are usually white and have money. They like it because the can buy their way through it and get what they want. The people who don't like it are the minorites and those without money. They don't like it because they know how unfair and biased it can be. And the ones who don't like it are in the majority. There are many, many injustices that occur in it everyday. And it's not just a small percentage.

Let me ask you, have you or any of your direct family ever had to defend yourself in a court of law against criminal charges? I seriously doubt it because if you had you would know how bad it is. That is unless your are in that rich white minority.

BTW, this is not intended to be racial in any way. I'm simply stating facts.

One last thing - Legal does not necessarily mean moral.

 

[capologist]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
You have to question everything.

Okay, if you say so.

 

[JJ Slim]

Originally posted by capologist
Okay, if you say so.

Did he really say that?

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by SirStefan32

If he is found guilty, then he is guilty.
If he is found innocent, then he is not guilty.
It's as simple as that.

Actually, I believe you are found to be either "Guilty" or "Not Guilty."

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by arthurracoon
I think there is the problem. I agree we have a great legal system, but it must be questioned.

Yes, it must be questioned, but it should be questioned by experts. Once I become an attorney, I will fight to impove the system. For now, I am just a college student who respects the law.

Edit:
I promise not to question the system until I learn to type.

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
Yes, it must be questioned, but it should be questioned by experts. Once I become an attorney, I will fight to impove the system. For now, I am juscollege student who respects the law.

Good point.

 

[Dback Jon]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
Yes, it must be questioned, but it should be questioned by experts. Once I become an attorney, I will fight to impove the system. For now, I am juscollege student who respects the law.

The experts are not always correct, or looking out for our best interests. Government by the PEOPLE, for the PEOPLE.

Question everything, especially lawyers!!

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by JJ Slim
Stefan, I've always had a pretty good opinion of you because you are usually level-headed and try to stick to the facts. But I can't believe how naive you are about our justice system. Sure it is one of the best in the world , if not the best. But it is not even close to being perfect.

The people who trust the justice system are usually white and have money. They like it because the can buy their way through it and get what they want. The people who don't like it are the minorites and those without money. They don't like it because they know how unfair and biased it can be. And the ones who don't like it are in the majority. There are many, many injustices that occur in it everyday. And it's not just a small percentage.

Let me ask you, have you or any of your direct family ever had to defend yourself in a court of law against criminal charges? I seriously doubt it because if you had you would know how bad it is. That is unless your are in that rich white minority.

BTW, this is not intended to be racial in any way. I'm simply stating facts.

One last thing - Legal does not necessarily mean moral.

JJ,

I have always had a very good oppinion of you. I have a lot of respect for you, and I do appreciate your input in this discussion.

First of all, no, I have never been in the Criminal Court. I have never commited a crime, not even a parking ticket. If you don't want to be in the criminal court- don't commit any crimes.

I have been in the immigration court a couple of times, and I have to say that I was treated well, both, the judges and the Councelors for the INS were very kind and respectful, and to be honest, I acctually enjoyed my hearings.

I am white but I don't have any money. I am waiting for some minor paperwork from the INS so I can continue going to school while working full time. However, I am a decent person who respects and obeys the law, and I don't have to worry about being in court facing criminal charges.

I realize that the system is not perfect, but it is a very good one. Legal system was the first thing about the United States that impressed me. Again, it is not perfect, but if you are a good citizen who obeys the law, you have nothign to worry about regardless of the color of your skin or your financial situation.

There is nothing I want more than to be a part of this great system, and hopefully in a few years I will be.

I couldn't agree with you more about your point about morality and law. Something can be legal but still immoral.
As a Bible believing Christian, I agree with that 100%.
What Kobe did was disguisting and terrible, it doesn't get much worse than chating on your wife just months after you had a baby.

Having said that, I still believe that Kobe is innocent as far as the sexual assault goes.

Stefan

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by Dback Jon
The experts are not always correct, or looking out for our best interests. Government by the PEOPLE, for the PEOPLE.

Question everything, especially lawyers!!

I beg to differ Jon. The experts may not always be correct, but most of our attorneys and judges are men commited to justice and justice alone. I know that I believe in justice and that I will serve it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
I beg to differ Jon. The experts may not always be correct, but most of our attorneys and judges are men commited to justice and justice alone.

Sorry to say what's on my mind, that's a load of idealistic hogwash.

As a liberal, I can easily spot overly idealistic talk/theory.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
I beg to differ Jon. The experts may not always be correct, but most of our attorneys and judges are men commited to justice and justice alone. I know that I believe in justice and that I will serve it.

Yes, and most of our politicians and public officers are dedicated to portraying the will of their constituants!

 

[SirStefan32]

Hey, the great thing about the States is that I have the right to be idealistic and to believe in justice, and you have the right not to believe in it.

I am sorry but I believe in justice. Sorry if that offends anybody.

Stefan

 

[Dback Jon]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
Hey, the great thing about the States is that I have the right to be idealistic and to believe in justice, and you have the right not to believe in it.

I am sorry but I believe in justice. Sorry if that offends anybody.

Stefan

I don't think anyone here does not believe in justice - it is just that most of us have experienced, either personally or someone close to us, where justice was not exactly served, and questions had to be raised - often by a non-legal expert.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
Hey, the great thing about the States is that I have the right to be idealistic and to believe in justice, and you have the right not to believe in it.

I am sorry but I believe in justice. Sorry if that offends anybody.

Stefan

Well if you want to believe that all lawyers are out for justice, you are extremely naive. Many lawyers are out to fill their pockets, that's just human nature.

If you go into law thinking that justice is always served, I can guarantee you will be very disappointed. As a current student of justice, I can say that injustice occurs regularly.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Well if you want to believe that all lawyers are out for justice, you are extremely naive. Many lawyers are out to fill their pockets, that's just human nature.

I don't how many lawyers are motivated solely by money, but I know that defense lawyers are definitely not interested in justice.

They are out to get their client off. That is their sole motivation.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Renz
I don't how many lawyers are motivated solely by money, but I know that defense lawyers are definitely not interested in justice.

They are out to get their client off. That is their sole motivation.

I think that many times, Prosecutors ARE out for justice, though sometimes it can be skewed (over zealous prosecutors).

But defense attorneys can be slime. We all need defense attorneys, but lets face it, sometimes they work to get rapists/murderers/molestors off.

 

[Renz]

When I think about defense attorneys, I always think of the scene in the movie Reversal of Fortune when the Alan Dershowitz character (played by Ron Silver) is talking to his law school students about representing Claus von Bulow.

The prof. and his students are debating the ethics of representing a client you think is guilty and one student says, "Representing guilty clients is more fun" (or "more of a challenge" I can't remember exactly). And Dershowitz says, "There. That's a lawyer!"

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Renz
When I think about defense attorneys, I always think of the scene in the movie Reversal of Fortune when the Alan Dershowitz character (played by Ron Silver) is talking to his law school students about representing Claus von Bulow.

The prof. and his students are debating the ethics of representing a client you think is guilty and one student says, "Representing guilty clients is more fun" (or "more of a challenge" I can't remember exactly). And Dershowitz says, "There. That's a lawyer!"

 

[JJ Slim]

If you don't want to be in the criminal court- don't commit any crimes.

That isn't always the case. My father was accused of a criminal offense and he has never committed a crime. Fortunately the justice system did work in this case.

I have been accused of several crimes. Some I committed, some I didn't. (These were all when I was much younger, btw). In one case, one in which I had not committed a crime, I was forced to plea bargain because if I had allowed it to go to trial, I would likely have been found guilty. And then there were other times where I was guilty and I got off completely. There is definitely no consistency in the courts.

I have been in the immigration court a couple of times, and I have to say that I was treated well, both, the judges and the Councelors for the INS were very kind and respectful, and to be honest, I acctually enjoyed my hearings.

I've been in the immigration courts too when my father obtained his citizenship. And they were all very respectful to him too. It is very different from a criminal court.

Again, it is not perfect, but if you are a good citizen who obeys the law, you have nothign to worry about regardless of the color of your skin or your financial situation.

Like I said, I disagree with that statement. Anybody can be accused of a crime he hasn't committed, even a rich white person. The difference is that a disadvantaged person is much more likely to end up in jail of a crime they didn't commit because they couldn't afford decent lawyers.

There is nothing I want more than to be a part of this great system, and hopefully in a few years I will be.

That's fantastic. But remember that while ideals are great, just don't get too discouraged when reality hits.

 

[rkellysunsfan]

Just an article about Kobe

I read this earlier on azcentral.com this article. It seems the people who used to know Kobe when he was in high school are really surprised about this recent news.

Associated Press
Jul. 24, 2003 03:22 PM

ARDMORE, Pa. - Lower Merion High School waited just six years to retire the number Kobe Bryant wore when he led the Aces to the 1996 state championship. Bryant was still only 24 then, but it seemed like there was no better role model for students.

"This is one of the most remarkable young people I've ever seen," said David Magill, the school district's superintendent when Bryant attended Lower Merion. "He had a work ethic that was just incomparable ... He had this incredible gentleness with young children. He was just exceptional."

Now, the high-achieving school on Philadelphia's wealthy Main Line faces the possibility that the number hanging in its gym might someday belong to a felon.

It's a prospect many in Bryant's suburban hometown find hard to believe, and few are ready to take down the banners and photographs celebrating Bryant's career. But the case has many stepping gingerly around questions they never thought they'd have to answer.

"Yeah, sure he was a great guy then, and he's probably a great guy now. But I knew the guy when he was 17 years old. People change," said Evan Monsky, a former high school teammate. "This is so beyond high school teammates. It's a rape case."

Bryant, now a Los Angeles Lakers superstar, is charged with sexually assaulting a 19-year-old woman at a resort in Colorado. He says his sexual encounter with the woman was consensual.

The Kobe Bryant many in this community knew had the poise of a diplomat by age 17. He eschewed after-school partying for late nights alone in the gym. For an English project his senior year, he wrote a children's book about how his gym clothes came alive at night, and read it to a group of young students.

"Any violence of the type that has now at least been alleged is just so uncharacteristic of him," Magill said. "I'm just sick about this. I'm sick for what his family is going through."

Linda Jackson, the director of the Ardmore Avenue Community Center, where Bryant once shot baskets, said she keeps a scrap book of his triumphs, but has been careful not to hold him up as a role model for the children the center serves.

"We don't look at athletes as role models. We look at doctors and lawyers," she said. "The kids here are either too young to understand, or old enough to form opinions on their own."

Philadelphia youth basketball guru Sonny Hill, who knew Bryant from birth, said that while his former summer league standout "has always been one who has carried himself in an exemplary fashion," he has stayed away from talking about the case.

"I'm too close to the situation. I just want to leave it alone," he said. "Hopefully, from my point of view, this will all be resolved and we will be standing at the end with smiles on our faces."

Whether the case will permanently tarnish Bryant's image in Philadelphia remains to be seen.

The city has long had a love-hate relationship with Bryant. Some people here haven't forgiven him for turning pro after high school instead of going to Villanova or Temple or La Salle, where his dad was an assistant coach.

Philadelphians also haven't forgotten that he helped lead the Lakers to a championship over the 76ers in 2001. Fans booed Bryant relentlessly when he played in he NBA All-Star game in Philadelphia in 2002.

Even in Lower Merion, there are those who have their doubts about Bryant's squeaky-clean image. Many of them are young women.

"I think the situation is a little shady, actually," said Christine Wallingford, 15, who was hanging out in downtown Ardmore. "He's probably done this before, and this is just the first time he's been caught."

Susan Vanderhei, 15, said she thinks Bryant probably is guilty too, but, like others here, can't imagine that he'll be held accountable.

"Hasn't this happened with other celebrities? Nothing ever happens to them. It just gets written about in the newspapers, and that's all," she said.

Summer school students streaming out of Lower Merion High this week said classrooms have been abuzz with talk of the case, and many of them say they believe Bryant was falsely accused by a girl possibly out for fame or fortune.

"They think the woman's out for money," said Colin Peters, 16, who was on the school's freshman basketball team last winter. "I think they'll find him innocent. I can't see him being taken away from basketball.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Dang. Kobe has been 24 years old since 1996?

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Is that your explanation about OJ Simpson too?

O.J. is innocent!