Bryant charged with felony sexual assault

[elindholm]

Thank you for being objective Eric.

Heh, I try.

Just to clarify, I'm not weighing in with a guess on whether Bryant is guilty or innocent. I don't pretend to have any idea. I'm just saying that, if I were betting on the outcome, I would definitely put my money on Bryant not being convicted.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by elindholm


So even though we don't know anything about this case, we can make educated guesses from how it "looks." And those guesses point to acquittal won through putting the victim on trial.

But all the credibility concerns of the victim are a moot point if the physical evidence shows rape.

If the physical evidence shows rape, Kobe will be convicted.

 

[elindholm]

If the physical evidence shows rape, Kobe will be convicted.

We haven't heard that the physical evidence shows rape. We've heard that the physical evidence shows sexual assault. That's potentially a lot different: it could include torn clothing, bruises on the arms, whatever. Maybe the physical evidence -- which, by the way, we haven't heard anything about since Bryant admitted having the affair -- is nothing more than semen, and the D.A. originally thought that Bryant might claim that there had been no sex at all.

 

[elindholm]

Sorry, one other thing:

Don't forget that Bryant has not even been charged with rape. He is charged with third-degree sexual assault, which is a much less violent (and, in the eyes of the law, less serious) offense. I think that, if there were evidence of rape, he'd be charged with rape. He isn't, so there isn't.

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain

If the physical evidence shows rape, Kobe will be convicted.

Again, two simple words that defense attorney's love- Reasonable doubt.

If the physical evidence was showing rape, Kobe would have been charged long time ago.

Even if there are minor injuries, perhaps she had sex with somebody a day before Kobe. Perhaps she is a little person, and Kobe is a big guy. Perhaps it just got a little rough.

Don't think for one minute that Bryant's attorneys will not have their own experts testifying.

Proving that something is more likely than not is very different from proving something beyond reasonable doubt.

Stefan

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by elindholm
If the physical evidence shows rape, Kobe will be convicted.

We haven't heard that the physical evidence shows rape. We've heard that the physical evidence shows sexual assault. That's potentially a lot different: it could include torn clothing, bruises on the arms, whatever. Maybe the physical evidence -- which, by the way, we haven't heard anything about since Bryant admitted having the affair -- is nothing more than semen, and the D.A. originally thought that Bryant might claim that there had been no sex at all.

Excellent point.

 

[Dback Jon]

Originally posted by elindholm
Sorry, one other thing:

Don't forget that Bryant has not even been charged with rape. He is charged with third-degree sexual assault, which is a much less violent (and, in the eyes of the law, less serious) offense. I think that, if there were evidence of rape, he'd be charged with rape. He isn't, so there isn't.

Not necessarily true - Colorado law does not mention the word Rape, so he can not be charged with it. Same circumstances, another state, it would be called rape. If Kobe is convicted, he's a rapist.

 

[elindholm]

Not necessarily true - Colorado law does not mention the word Rape, so he can not be charged with it.

That is a semantic point. He can be charged with second-degree or first-degree sexual assault. He wasn't. If you read the law, it's pretty clear that first-degree sexual assault is the same as what we normally think of as "rape."

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by elindholm
If the physical evidence shows rape, Kobe will be convicted.

We haven't heard that the physical evidence shows rape. We've heard that the physical evidence shows sexual assault. That's potentially a lot different: it could include torn clothing, bruises on the arms, whatever. Maybe the physical evidence -- which, by the way, we haven't heard anything about since Bryant admitted having the affair -- is nothing more than semen, and the D.A. originally thought that Bryant might claim that there had been no sex at all.

Because if you leak the evidence out before the court is concluded it can not be admissible in court. The world doesn't need to know until the verdict.

 

[Freddie]

More fuel for the fire.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/942322.asp?0cv=CB20

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Freddie
More fuel for the fire.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/942322.asp?0cv=CB20

Well we all see what we want to see:

Another friend gave a different impression of the victim, saying she was still “shaken up” by what happened. Luke Bray declined to be more specific out of respect for his friend and her family.
“There is visible evidence of what happened,” he said.



Hmmm...so there is visible evidence.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Bray, 21, said he saw the woman about a week after the alleged assault on June 30. “She was still shaken up. She was pretty much in denial,” he said. “She couldn’t believe it.”
He said the woman was also at his house Friday to watch news conferences where Hurlbert announced the charges and Bryant admitted adultery and apologized to his wife.
“She couldn’t believe that his wife was sitting there and apparently didn’t care about adultery,” Bray said.
Sara Dabner, 17, who sang in the Eagle County High School choir with the woman, asked: “Why would a woman put herself through all of this — having people call her names? I think she just wants to see justice done. She’s not trying to drag him through the dirt.”

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Bray, 21, said he saw the woman about a week after the alleged assault on June 30. “She was still shaken up. She was pretty much in denial,” he said. “She couldn’t believe it.”
He said the woman was also at his house Friday to watch news conferences where Hurlbert announced the charges and Bryant admitted adultery and apologized to his wife.
“She couldn’t believe that his wife was sitting there and apparently didn’t care about adultery,” Bray said.
Sara Dabner, 17, who sang in the Eagle County High School choir with the woman, asked: “Why would a woman put herself through all of this — having people call her names? I think she just wants to see justice done. She’s not trying to drag him through the dirt.”

NA not true she must be in a drug induced stuper after horring all night... FREE KOBE FREE KOBE

 

[Chaplin]

Look at all the pro-Kobe stuff being reported by the media. You know why?

Say you're the editor of the LA Times or the Orange County Register, or a reporter for NBC or ABC. What would happen if you report or print a story pretty much convicting Kobe?

1) You would lose major readership/viewership
2) You would lose the opportunity to interview Kobe in the future, if you said he was guilty and he was acquitted.

If the papers say he was innocent and it turns out he was guilty, it'll just be faulty information, rather than reporter incompetence, and that reporter/newspaper/magazine/tv station won't get blacklisted by the player and/or the team.

So take that as you will, we all know that the truth isn't exactly the whole truth when it comes to journalism. There's an angle here, and don't discount the role of politics in this whole thing and the way it is reported.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain

If the physical evidence shows rape, Kobe will be convicted.

Hey Krang, since you seemed to like the info I posted that my mom gave me I thought I would share a little more she told me yesterday. (I have been asking her a lot of questions, she apparently handles a lot of this, she works at least once or twice at the jail and a lot of those patients have been sexually assualted I guess)

Anyways, she said that if a women is sexually active, it can be EXTREMELY hard to get disctinct physical evidence of sexual assault. A lot of the rape trials she testifies at she said the information she gives is usually just substantial evidence. Mostly, "yes she has had intercourse lately, no I cannot be sure it was forced."

She basically said that most physical evidence turns out to be semen, which we have all decided is a moot now, since Kobe admitted sleeping with her.

She was working when I called her, so she had to cut me short on my questions, but from what I gathered it doesn't seem feasible that the prosecution has any physical evidence that was taken from the victims person.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Hey Krang, since you seemed to like the info I posted that my mom gave me I thought I would share a little more she told me yesterday. (I have been asking her a lot of questions, she apparently handles a lot of this, she works at least once or twice at the jail and a lot of those patients have been sexually assualted I guess)

Anyways, she said that if a women is sexually active, it can be EXTREMELY hard to get disctinct physical evidence of sexual assault. A lot of the rape trials she testifies at she said the information she gives is usually just substantial evidence. Mostly, "yes she has had intercourse lately, no I cannot be sure it was forced."

She basically said that most physical evidence turns out to be semen, which we have all decided is a moot now, since Kobe admitted sleeping with her.

She was working when I called her, so she had to cut me short on my questions, but from what I gathered it doesn't seem feasible that the prosecution has any physical evidence that was taken from the victims person.

Is your mother a forensic nurse?

I had a forensic nurse come into one of my justice classes, and she basically said that most of the time rape is quite apparent. When a woman doesn't want to have sex, the vaginal tissue tears.

Add that fact with bruising that would occur from a struggle, and you have strong circumstantial rape evidence. Rough sex is much different than forced sex.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Is your mother a forensic nurse?

I had a forensic nurse come into one of my justice classes, and she basically said that most of the time rape is quite apparent. When a woman doesn't want to have sex, the vaginal tissue tears.

Add that fact with bruising that would occur from a struggle, and you have strong circumstantial rape evidence. Rough sex is much different than forced sex.

My mom is an OB/GYN with 15 years of post high school education/ training. While she doesn't specialize in rape victims, she does have considerable experience considering the hospital she works at.

She also said that there are forensic nurses that work sexual assault cases in maricopa county, but they usually assist the Dr. in charge, or do the tests and have the doctor evaluate the results. Remember, a nurse never goes to med school, and they usually need a Dr.'s approval for their diagnosis.

She said that if a women is sexually active the vaginal tissue stretches, making it very hard to tell. She then said in some cases they can use a large magnifying glass (didnt want to even try spelling the word she used) to see if there is any small evidence. However, as the Doctor making the examination she said practially never can she guantee is was assault, and the most common diagnosis is "alleged sexual assault"

If the defendant admits to sleeping with the woman, it turns into a he said she said arguement, or is based off of witness reports.


About bruises, she said that every victim is different. Diffferent people bruise easier than others. For example my sister will get a large purple bruise if she hits her thigh on a counter where my girlfriend can slip in the rain and fall on her ass without a mark. Also, rape isnt always extemely violent in the manner carried out.

Just because a women doesnt struggle to get away it doesnt mean that it was consensual.

 

[Chaplin]

The fact that she went to the hospital immediately following the incident would indicate there might have been some kind of problem(s).

 

[arthurracoon]

You know what is funny(somewhat) about this case...

DA: Kobe is charged with sexual assult.

ASFN Members: Oh My God!!!

Kobe: I have comitted the sin of adultry

ASFN Members who support Kobe: Oh, that is all. Kobe is a good man. He only comitted adultry. What's so bad about that? That's ok. He just made a little mistake. As long as he is not guilty of the assult part.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Chaplin
The fact that she went to the hospital immediately following the incident would indicate there might have been some kind of problem(s).

I never read that she went right after the incident. As far as I knew, she went around the same time as Bryant did, which was a couple days after the alleged assault occured.

I would assume (not guaranteeing, but pretty confident) that the police make it standard practice to send ALL victims her were potentially raped to the hospital to not only ensure their health but also to collect evidence.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
I never read that she went right after the incident. As far as I knew, she went around the same time as Bryant did, which was a couple days after the alleged assault occured.

I heard on one report that she went to the hospital the next day.

If that is significant I don't know.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by Renz
I heard on one report that she went to the hospital the next day.

If that is significant I don't know.

I heard that Boldin flew her there and then kick Kobe's a$$.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
Perhaps she is a little person, and Kobe is a big guy. Perhaps it just got a little rough.

Stefan

From everything I've heard reported, she is allegedly 5'8 and athletic.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Renz
I heard on one report that she went to the hospital the next day.

If that is significant I don't know.

I dont know if it is or not. If she went on her own accord than maybe something did go wrong and she did get hurt. Or maybe she went on a friend's advice. Or maybe she went to the police that early and they sent her there.......just not enough answers

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by SweetD
I heard that Boldin flew her there and then kick Kobe's a$$.

Man!!!

Boldin does EVERYTHING!!!