Big Board 7.0 Chad Ford

[AzStevenCal]

I have concerns about Tatum but I have fewer with him than I do most of the names people are talking about at 4. I think he's a decent prospect on both ends of the court although I doubt stardom is in his future.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I have concerns about Tatum but I have fewer with him than I do most of the names people are talking about at 4. I think he's a decent prospect on both ends of the court although I doubt stardom is in his future.

There is no doubt that his offensive game looks solid - that said, if he doesn't play any D or rebound, and doesn't appear to be a future all star, what's the point of drafting him? The NBA is littered with good scorers who can't do anything else, they are not the kind of guys you want to draft with a top 4 pick.

It'll be very interesting to hear how these guys do against each other in workouts - the amount of data is so small, and they are so young.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There is no doubt that his offensive game looks solid - that said, if he doesn't play any D or rebound, and doesn't appear to be a future all star, what's the point of drafting him? The NBA is littered with good scorers who can't do anything else, they are not the kind of guys you want to draft with a top 4 pick.

It'll be very interesting to hear how these guys do against each other in workouts - the amount of data is so small, and they are so young.

I can't stand watching Duke so I do so very little of it but I've recently read reasonable arguments for him as a plus defender. And I've read other reports that suggest the contrary, one writer insisted his high block and steal number won't translate to the NBA despite the fact they typically do. IOW, I don't know what to think.

But I'm with you on the workouts. I've been saying for awhile that well scripted workouts/interviews will answer a lot more questions that they typically do. Mostly because there are so many more questions to ask this season.

The draft is even younger than usual (college class-wise at least) and we didn't get great looks at some of the top players (Fultz and Smith mostly) and then you've got the "was he injured or not" question with Ball. We might have to wait till the season begins to get that last question fully answered as Lonzo doesn't appear to be granting workouts.

 

[sunsfan88]

There is no doubt that his offensive game looks solid - that said, if he doesn't play any D or rebound, and doesn't appear to be a future all star, what's the point of drafting him? The NBA is littered with good scorers who can't do anything else, they are not the kind of guys you want to draft with a top 4 pick.

It's pretty funny and obviously you, me and everyone else on this forum would disagree with it but this is how many NBA fans who aren't Suns fans actually describe Devin Booker.

 

[elindholm]

The NBA is littered with good scorers who can't do anything else, they are not the kind of guys you want to draft with a top 4 pick.

Are there really that many of them? Let's say he has the tools to get to 20 ppg by his third year or so. The NBA had 31 players at that tier this season, an average of basically one per team. That's not exactly a surplus. Getting that from a big or a point/combo guard is different from getting it from a wing. Looking down the list, here are the legitimate wings that I see (in descending order by scoring average):

DeRozan
James
Leonard
Durant
Butler
George
Wiggins
Antetokounmpo
Anthony
Thompson
Booker
Hayward

If one believes that Tatum's overall game could develop to the level of any of those players above, I don't see the hesitation in taking him at #4.

 

[sunsfan88]

Are there really that many of them? Let's say he has the tools to get to 20 ppg by his third year or so. The NBA had 31 players at that tier this season, an average of basically one per team. That's not exactly a surplus. Getting that from a big or a point/combo guard is different from getting it from a wing. Looking down the list, here are the legitimate wings that I see (in descending order by scoring average):

DeRozan
James
Leonard
Durant
Butler
George
Wiggins
Antetokounmpo
Anthony
Thompson
Booker
Hayward

If one believes that Tatum's overall game could develop to the level of any of those players above, I don't see the hesitation in taking him at #4.

He said "can't do anything else". Most of the guys you mentioned who got 20 ppg contributed besides just scoring.

Leonard - Elite defender & rebounder
Durant- Elite rebounder & good defender
Butler - Elite defender & decent playmaker
George - Elite defender & decent rebounder
James - Elite at everything
Wiggins - You're right here
Giannis - Elite at everything
Anthony - Used to be good rebounder
Thompson - Elite defender
DeRozan - You're right here
Hayward - Great playmaker, solid defender

 

[Mainstreet]

Phoenix finished ninth in points/gm IIRC but continue to be awful defensively. I realize we still need scorers who can score in different ways, but we need to add a skilled 2 way player with size and that's clearly Jackson.

I believe Fox can make a defensive impact on the perimeter and he can score. Those are the two i'm hoping we get a chance at and McD pulls the trigger on.

IMO guys being mentioned like Tatum, Isaac, Markkanen, Monk....don't help this team move the needle very much. Good looking prospects and they fit roles and holes for other teams.

What can I say. We have good taste.

I would be happy with Jackson or Fox at #4.

 

[Mainstreet]

I have concerns about Tatum but I have fewer with him than I do most of the names people are talking about at 4. I think he's a decent prospect on both ends of the court although I doubt stardom is in his future.

Tatum is a safe pick. This is not a bad label but the Suns need a potential star player in the draft.

If Tatum had a quick first step, I'd like him much more. Having a quick first step is so important to getting in the lane and to the basket.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Tatum is a safe pick. This is not a bad label but the Suns need a potential star player in the draft.

If Tatum had a quick first step, I'd like him much more. Having a quick first step is so important to getting in the lane and to the basket.

Yeah, me too. I'm not advocating for Tatum but I do believe he has fewer fatal flaws than Jackson does.

 

[Chaplin]

Can Jackson and TJ play together?

Doesn't matter. TJ is a decent player, but he's not someone that would force us to ignore drafting Jackson if he's there.

 

[Chaplin]

He said "can't do anything else". Most of the guys you mentioned who got 20 ppg contributed besides just scoring.

Leonard - Elite defender & rebounder
Durant- Elite rebounder & good defender
Butler - Elite defender & decent playmaker
George - Elite defender & decent rebounder
James - Elite at everything
Wiggins - You're right here
Giannis - Elite at everything
Anthony - Used to be good rebounder
Thompson - Elite defender
DeRozan - You're right here
Hayward - Great playmaker, solid defender

What about the learning curve? A lot of those guys, most of them actually, are vets that have spent years working on those things you list. In fact, this discussion is a little ridiculous because you aren't taking into consideration the learning curve. Why is that?

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Tatum is a safe pick. This is not a bad label but the Suns need a potential star player in the draft.

If Tatum had a quick first step, I'd like him much more. Having a quick first step is so important to getting in the lane and to the basket.

Tatum doesn't need a quick step because his strides are so long and his pull up jumper in ISO is unguardable. He basically is one dribble and to the hoop. His ability to score inside the 3 point line is elite. It's basically Paul Pierce like.


Does elite post skills and iso mid range jumpers translate in today's NBA? I believe it will.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

It's funny to me how basically after Fultz and Ball you have...Fultz (Tatum) and Ball (Jackson).

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Tatum's ability to play the 3 or the 4 really has me thinking Boston takes him.

 

[gmabel830]

5. Fox - Still only 170 and an inch shorter than expected but wowed teams in interviews at the combine. Several teams have him rated over Ball now.

The look on Lavar's face if Magic picks Fox over Ball would be freaking priceless!!

 

[sunsfan88]

What about the learning curve? A lot of those guys, most of them actually, are vets that have spent years working on those things you list. In fact, this discussion is a little ridiculous because you aren't taking into consideration the learning curve. Why is that?

Most of the guys on his list were actually good at other things before becoming prolific scorers...for example, Kawhi came into the league as a defender first. Same with George, Butler etc.

Anyway, I don't have a bone in this, I was merely pointing out what the other poster said.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Are there really that many of them? Let's say he has the tools to get to 20 ppg by his third year or so. The NBA had 31 players at that tier this season, an average of basically one per team. That's not exactly a surplus. Getting that from a big or a point/combo guard is different from getting it from a wing. Looking down the list, here are the legitimate wings that I see (in descending order by scoring average):

DeRozan
James
Leonard
Durant
Butler
George
Wiggins
Antetokounmpo
Anthony
Thompson
Booker
Hayward

If one believes that Tatum's overall game could develop to the level of any of those players above, I don't see the hesitation in taking him at #4.

I don't think he's even close athletically to the majority of those players

 

[Matt L]

The look on Lavar's face if Magic picks Fox over Ball would be freaking priceless!!

If Ball is there at 4 would you pick him? I would

 

[Mainstreet]

Tatum doesn't need a quick step because his strides are so long and his pull up jumper in ISO is unguardable. He basically is one dribble and to the hoop. His ability to score inside the 3 point line is elite. It's basically Paul Pierce like.


Does elite post skills and iso mid range jumpers translate in today's NBA? I believe it will.

He needs a quick stride then.

A player needs a quick first step if he hopes to get to the rim consistently.

If Tatum does not have a quick first step, defenders will guard him tightly which may effect the rest of his game.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, me too. I'm not advocating for Tatum but I do believe he has fewer fatal flaws than Jackson does.

No doubt Tatum is one of the most NBA ready players. I guess I like more athletic wings.

 

[hsandhu]

Tatum's ability to play the 3 or the 4 really has me thinking Boston takes him.

Take him where, not 1? Gambo is buddies with ainge, knew they were taking brown last year, says they are taking fultz with a 1.

Broussard, bill simmons, chad ford all said the celtics also love tatum.... but I'm assuming only if they trade down a few spots, i.e. philly makes a big offer for fultz.

 

[overseascardfan]

I've also heard that in order to make LA pay a premium, BOS may hostage the pick by making LA believe BOS will take Ball #1 even though Ball won't work out for them.

 

[elindholm]

I don't think he's even close athletically to the majority of those players

Yeah, I'm surprised that this board is in such disagreement about his level of athleticism.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Take him where, not 1? Gambo is buddies with ainge, knew they were taking brown last year, says they are taking fultz with a 1.

Broussard, bill simmons, chad ford all said the celtics also love tatum.... but I'm assuming only if they trade down a few spots, i.e. philly makes a big offer for fultz.

I think they flip with Philly

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

He needs a quick stride then.

A player needs a quick first step if he hopes to get to the rim consistently.

If Tatum does not have a quick first step, defenders will guard him tightly which may effect the rest of his game.

I watched his draftexpress scouting video. His ability to get to the rim consistently is listed as a strength. The film was impressive.