Arizona Cardinals offseason thread 2022

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
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Not sure how that’s walking on water just a factual analogy. Would love for someone to make a relevant rebuttal to those facts other than just reverting to the same old, tired - your a Kyler lover, Kyler is god etc.
You and others absolutely defend KM to the death and, with very rare exceptions, won't hear a word said against him. He IS extremely talented. Physically, he absolutely is a generational talent. Nobody, I think, is denying that. What gets denied constantly is that he has anything to work on--by a few people. The last post I quoted is clear evidence. It's basically, "Shut up, Kyler's great, how dare you criticize him at all." Yeah, that dog don't hunt.
 

Stout

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Kirk Cousins is no where near is ceiling, even if he doesn't improve any more. Weird comparison.
If he doesn't improve, that is a perfect analogy: a stats monster that won't win squat. That's what KM is now, at this moment in time, so if he doesn't improve...?

If his attitude doesn't change, and he can't/won't mature, what do you see his ceiling as?
 

Stout

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Has nothing to do with walking on water. After like 100 years, we finally have a young star QB. Star? Yes. 3 years, OROY & 2 Pro Bowls attest to that. So, while we have people on this board that spend way too much time criticizing him, I will be that guy that supports him without any reservation. In a sport that absolutely requires having a QB in order to win, I sleep very well knowing we have Murray.
You say it has nothing to do with him walking on water and go on to express how you feel he walks on water LOL So we should all just shut up and, "without any reservation," support him. We should never, ever question his injury history or his maturity? M'kay, sure.
 

DaHilg

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You and others absolutely defend KM to the death and, with very rare exceptions, won't hear a word said against him. He IS extremely talented. Physically, he absolutely is a generational talent. Nobody, I think, is denying that. What gets denied constantly is that he has anything to work on--by a few people. The last post I quoted is clear evidence. It's basically, "Shut up, Kyler's great, how dare you criticize him at all." Yeah, that dog don't hunt.
I welcome a debate on topics, please rebuttal to the factual post in why those aren’t facts.. and why that analogy isn’t appropriate for Kyler’s situation.
 

dreamcastrocks

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If he doesn't improve, that is a perfect analogy: a stats monster that won't win squat. That's what KM is now, at this moment in time, so if he doesn't improve...?

If his attitude doesn't change, and he can't/won't mature, what do you see his ceiling as?
Randall Cunningham.

The difference between us.. I don't think his attitude is the driving factor to our lack of success. The HC is. Besides, Kliff has proven to be a choker, long before Kyler has...
 

PACardsFan

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You say it has nothing to do with him walking on water and go on to express how you feel he walks on water LOL So we should all just shut up and, "without any reservation," support him. We should never, ever question his injury history or his maturity? M'kay, sure.
No young QB in Cardinal history has even remotely approached the accomplishments that Murray has. And he’s only 24. So, excuse the hell out of me for being excited about his future & our future with him under center. After the crap that I watched for 95% of my almost 6 decades of following this franchise, you bet your bottom I’m supporting him without reservation. There may come a day when I have to alter my views about Murray, but that day hasn’t remotely arrived. Feel free to long for the days of Blake, King, McCown, Anderson, Kolb, and Skelton. Not me. We have our guy.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
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No young QB in Cardinal history has even remotely approached the accomplishments that Murray has. And he’s only 24. So, excuse the hell out of me for being excited about his future & our future with him under center. After the crap that I watched for 95% of my almost 6 decades of following this franchise, you bet your bottom I’m supporting him without reservation. There may come a day when I have to alter my views about Murray, but that day hasn’t remotely arrived. Feel free to long for the days of Blake, King, McCown, Anderson, Kolb, and Skelton. Not me. We have our guy.
Great! He still has a long way to go, and if you think he doesn't, I have some oceanfront land in Kansas City for ya.
 

RON_IN_OC

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No one said he doesn’t have to improve. But, so does Rodgers, Mahomes, and Allen.
Every QB not named Tom Brady (and even he will tell you where he needs to improve) has room for improvement, regardless of past accomplishments. If they aren't evolving and progressing, they're falling behind.
 

Chopper0080

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He's 24 stinking years old!!!!!!! Many great QB's didn't win crap early in their careers. And many of them weren't drafted by maybe the worst team in NFL history. By one of the worst franchises in NFL history. I have to laugh at a fanbase that's only seen maybe 10 great seasons in their 100+ years of operation that wants to criticize a player who's team has gone from 3-5-8-11 in his 1st 3 seasons. He hasn't won anything? When has this team EVER won anything? We better pray Murray doesn't go to a franchise that actually knows how to win. Otherwise, you'll spend every Sunday vomiting into a garbage can watching him win elsewhere.
Better than bad does not equal good. At this point in time, Kyler is the equivalent of Kirk Cousins until he takes another step. Obviously Kyler is a top 16 NFL QB but has not shown to be special in big games.
 

Chopper0080

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Randall Cunningham.

The difference between us.. I don't think his attitude is the driving factor to our lack of success. The HC is. Besides, Kliff has proven to be a choker, long before Kyler has...
The HC won two of three games with Colt McCoy at QB vs Seattle and San Francisco and without Deandre Hopkins. If he was a bad coach he would not have been able to do that.
 

dreamcastrocks

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The HC won two of three games with Colt McCoy at QB vs Seattle and San Francisco and without Deandre Hopkins. If he was a bad coach he would not have been able to do that.
I didn't say he was a bad coach. I said he is more responsible for our late season collapses.
 

Chopper0080

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I didn't say he was a bad coach. I said he is more responsible for our late season collapses.
by scheming wide open receivers for Kyler to miss or not see?

How is the HC more responsible than the QB who is actually playing on the field? What egregious error did Kliff commit to lose 4 of 5 end of season games and what did Kliff do to cause Kyler to have one of the worst performances in playoff history?

Can't argue QBs are more valuable and then say the HC is more accountable for the play of the QB than the QB is.
 

dreamcastrocks

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by scheming wide open receivers for Kyler to miss or not see?

How is the HC more responsible than the QB who is actually playing on the field? What egregious error did Kliff commit to lose 4 of 5 end of season games and what did Kliff do to cause Kyler to have one of the worst performances in playoff history?

Can't argue QBs are more valuable and then say the HC is more accountable for the play of the QB than the QB is.
All you have to just look at the playoff game. Just about EVERY player came out the gate flat, not just our favorite whipping boy Kyler.

In case some might have forgotten.

Kliff record | Start | Finish - Final
2013 | 7-0 | 1-5 | 8-5
2014 | 2-0 | 2-8 | 4-8
2015 | 5-2 | 2-4 | 7-6
2016 | 3-1 | 2-6 | 5-7
2017 | 4-1 | 2-6 | 6-7
2018 | 5-2 | 0-5 | 5-7
2019 | 3-3-1 | 2-7 | 5-10-1
2020 | 6-3 | 2-5 | 8-8
2021 | 7-0 | 4-7 | 11-8
 

PACardsFan

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Better than bad does not equal good. At this point in time, Kyler is the equivalent of Kirk Cousins until he takes another step. Obviously Kyler is a top 16 NFL QB but has not shown to be special in big games.
We’ll have to agree to disagree.
 

Krangodnzr

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He can get better, sure. Will he get better? Not if he doesn't mature and change his approach, no. He'll be a stats monster and sometime playoff player, but he won't get anywhere, and neither will the team.
He's 24. Still a kid.
On the flip side, if he does do what he needs to do, well, the sky is the limit. In that instance, multiple super bowls are the ceiling with regular deep playoff runs the norm.
Pay the kid.
 

PACardsFan

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Some people make weird arguments.
John Elway got drafted by a team that was 1 year removed from a 10-6 record in 1981. The 1982 Broncos (strike year) were 2-7 (mainly because of injuries & players who chose not to cross the strike line). So essentially, John Elway was drafted by a playoff team. That is completely the opposite of what Murray’s situation was. Not only was Murray drafted by the worst team in 2018, but by the worst team in Cardinal history. And that’s saying a ton. All that being said, Murray in his first 3 seasons has been significantly better than Elway was in his first 3 seasons.
 

football karma

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The HC won two of three games with Colt McCoy at QB vs Seattle and San Francisco and without Deandre Hopkins. If he was a bad coach he would not have been able to do that.
kliff aint perfect, but you dont win 11 games by accident.

if you believe that Kliff is a disaster, then either Keim is an outstanding roster builder, or, Kyler is a top 2 QB in the league that carried a bad coach and bad roster to 11 wins.

my take is that both Kliff and Kyler are similar in that the good stuff can be really, really good but the weaknesses are enough to hold you back from being a true SuperBowl contender. i also think they both still have enough potential to where the weaknesses can be mitigated.

I think the odds of finding a better QB than K1 in the next few years is pretty low. The odds of finding a better coach than kliff is 50/50.
 

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