Arizona Cardinals offseason thread 2022

[Krangodnzr]

Mahomes didn't have second half dips in college though. The team lost a ton after they got through their cupcakes but Mahomes and the offense was good throughout in both wins and losses outside of 1 games (2016 ISU). His 819 yard game (loss) came in the back half of the season.

The narrative that Kliff's end of year collapses these last 2 seasons have been a problem throughout his college years feels false to me. He didn't have good seasons in college. There was no "great start" followed by collapse. They were a small school team with bad talent that could be scary, but overall sucked. The offense was consistently rolling but it never mattered since they had the leagues worst defense. To me there is no similarity with Texas Tech's problem and our problem

IMO it's just flat laziness.

I'll say again for those who just don't seem to get it...if Murray plays even incrementally better the Cardinals very likely go 13-4 and get a home playoff game. It's much easier for the QB to play better than 10 other guys. The issues with the rest of the offense are more injury related. Murray just doesn't play well when there is adversity.

 

[SoonerLou]

IMO it's just flat laziness.

I'll say again for those who just don't seem to get it...if Murray plays even incrementally better the Cardinals very likely go 13-4 and get a home playoff game. It's much easier for the QB to play better than 10 other guys. The issues with the rest of the offense are more injury related. Murray just doesn't play well when there is adversity.

Lol

Incrementally we beat the Colts if we dont miss out on 7 points because of our kicker. Incrementally we probably get a TD if Kirk holds on to that dime in the 1st half. Incrementally we beat the Seahawks without the special teams blunder and AJ Green not actively working against the entire offense.

The coaching failure is that Kliff needed to discover a run game. Once it was clear that teams learned from the Panthers film that they are playing more man coverage we needed a run game. No diversity in our run game to help open up those play action passes.

As I've said before just say he needed to play very well. Cause Kyler absolutely didnt do that. However, better coaches won with lesser QB play because they had a far more disciplined team and structure.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Lol

Incrementally we beat the Colts if we dont miss out on 7 points because of our kicker. Incrementally we probably get a TD if Kirk holds on to that dime in the 1st half. Incrementally we beat the Seahawks without the special teams blunder and AJ Green not actively working against the entire offense.

And to rely on kicking means the QB isn't getting the ball in the end zone. All of those games, Murray played BELOW average and the Cardinals lost. Could other people play better? Sure, but Murray played poorly and that's the topic trending among the fan base.

The coaching failure is that Kliff needed to discover a run game. Once it was clear that teams learned from the Panthers film that they are playing more man coverage we needed a run game. No diversity in our run game to help open up those play action passes.

Play action works whether the run game works or not. That's been proven over and over.

The running game didn't work because of personnel, not scheme.

As I've said before just say he needed to play very well. Cause Kyler absolutely didnt do that. However, better coaches won with lesser QB play because they had a far more disciplined team and structure.

The coaching was hamstrung BY Kyler. I'm not a Kingsbury fan boy, but to think he's coaching with a full deck is madness. He has an OL that run blocks for crap. And a QB, that while he can fill up a highlight reel, still struggles to make rudimentary NFL reads and have rudimentary pocket presence.

 

[SoonerLou]

And to rely on kicking means the QB isn't getting the ball in the end zone. All of those games, Murray played BELOW average and the Cardinals lost. Could other people play better? Sure, but Murray played poorly and that's the topic trending among the fan base.

Play action works whether the run game works or not. That's been proven over and over.

The running game didn't work because of personnel, not scheme.

Hey some games are ugly. Good coaches win ugly games. Im acknowledging Kyler didnt play well enough. However, he was actually decent enough to win that game. Good teams find ways to win that. Special teams disasters like that shouldnt occur. Thats a choke job by a poorly prepared team.

The coaching was hamstrung BY Kyler. I'm not a Kingsbury fan boy, but to think he's coaching with a full deck is madness. He has an OL that run blocks for crap. And a QB, that while he can fill up a highlight reel, still struggles to make rudimentary NFL reads and have rudimentary pocket presence.

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Kliff lacks a variety in his run game. Thats what doesnt help. A coach can develop some level of knock back in his offense. Its hilarious how you lay blame like it was just Kyler and not Kliff as well. NEITHER were great.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Cardinals FO

Are you going to address the fans?

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Exactly.

His team lost against the better teams in his conference. That's the pattern. Look at the schedules and you will quickly realize he wasn't losing to Arkansas Mechanical and Meat, he was losing to Oklahoma and Texas.

Okay so we should expect his teams to continue to underperform against good teams in the nfl at seasons end too? It’s a pattern. Make up all the excuses you want. It’s a pattern without a single exception upon which you can hang your hat. Not a single one.

 

[Cheesebeef]

lol

You go so far to the other end as if you were ashamed to be such a big advocate. He had a 95 passer rating his last 3 games of the regular season. Thats with multiple drops (or OPI's) that cost us yards/points. And believe it or not the "statpadding" actually dropped his passer rating. We could have won the Seahawks and Colts games if we had better special teams/stops against the run. Its not that Murray didnt have his issues, but you're ignoring there were other issues as well

That Rams game disaster would have negated all that around here even if the final games were "respectable"

Dont say respectable. Just say you wish he was great. Cause if he were that would give you and others a safe space about this franchise.

Sidenote: No more expect terrible loss predictions next season. Major cringe.

The offense scored

Hey some games are ugly. Good coaches win ugly games. Im acknowledging Kyler didnt play well enough. However, he was actually decent enough to win that game. Good teams find ways to win that. Special teams disasters like that shouldnt occur. Thats a choke job by a poorly prepared team.

sorry... but you're also overblowing the "kicking disaster." he missed an extra point and a short field goal. the other FG was 50+ meaning the offense crapped the bed and stalled as usual late in the season putting Prater in a deep FG situation that can't be counted on.

and you neglect to mention that the Colts were missing practically HALF OF THEIR DEFENSE and multiple stars on that side of the ball because of Covid and Kyler still had the team settling for FGs.

you also completely ignore the fact that against a WOEFUL Seattle team, the defense scored a TD, handed the ball to the offense again at the 1 yard line, which means Kyler led the team on offense to a whopping total of 16 POINTS. again, against a WOEFUL defense. Yes, our D stunk in that outside of two big plays, but Kyler was pathetic in that game as well only mustering up 16 points on offense.

 

[SoonerLou]

The offense scored

sorry... but you're also overblowing the "kicking disaster." he missed an extra point and a short field goal. the other FG was 50+ meaning the offense crapped the bed and stalled as usual late in the season putting Prater in a deep FG situation that can't be counted on.

and you neglect to mention that the Colts were missing practically HALF OF THEIR DEFENSE and multiple stars on that side of the ball because of Covid and Kyler still had the team settling for FGs.

you also completely ignore the fact that against a WOEFUL Seattle team, the defense scored a TD, handed the ball to the offense again at the 1 yard line, which means Kyler led the team on offense to a whopping total of 16 POINTS. again, against a WOEFUL defense. Yes, our D stunk in that outside of two big plays, but Kyler was pathetic in that game as well only mustering up 16 points on offense.

Yes we dropped a pass that could have maybe given us 7 points. And then we missed out on another 4 points with special teams. That 16 is easily 27 if we were a more buttoned up group.

The Seahawks game we had a WR actively working against us in AJ Green. We had a LT who clearly came back too soon from Covid.

And what was maybe the most troubling thing. We approached that game like a PRESEASON game. It seemed like we were truly scoreboard watching as well.

Kyler isnt absolved. However, what you deem as pathetic is the kind of performance that other teams have won with.

No one is arguing Kyler was good. Its quite the opposite. However, it'd be crazy to say it that game was "pathetic" as well with what went on. Cause REALLY pathetic play has won games like that.

This is more about Krang deflecting it off as just a Kyler issue. When its just as much if not more about Kliff as well.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Okay so we should expect his teams to continue to underperform against good teams in the nfl at seasons end too? It’s a pattern. Make up all the excuses you want. It’s a pattern without a single exception upon which you can hang your hat. Not a single one.

<SIGH>

The talent level between Texas/Oklahoma and Texas Tech is just massive. Thats not really what happens in the NFL.

And Kliff did beat some good teams so your argument is just factually incorrect as well.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yes we dropped a pass that could have maybe given us 7 points. And then we missed out on another 4 points with special teams. That 16 is easily 27 if we were a more buttoned up group.

The Seahawks game we had a WR actively working against us in AJ Green. We had a LT who clearly came back too soon from Covid.

And what was maybe the most troubling thing. We approached that game like a PRESEASON game. It seemed like we were truly scoreboard watching as well.

Kyler isnt absolved. However, what you deem as pathetic is the kind of performance that other teams have won with.

No one is arguing Kyler was good. Its quite the opposite. However, it'd be crazy to say it that game was "pathetic" as well with what went on. Cause REALLY pathetic play has won games like that.

This is more about Krang deflecting it off as just a Kyler issue. When its just as much if not more about Kliff as well.

It's not just a Kyler issue. You are creating this straw man argument. I specifically said that the rest of the team didn't play particularly well.

If you're going to debate, at least don't misquote

 

[SoonerLou]

It's not just a Kyler issue. You are creating this straw man argument. I specifically said that the rest of the team didn't play particularly well.

If you're going to debate, at least don't misquote

And that starts with the HC buddy. And you also said 1 person can play better than 10 other guys yet ignore other factors could have got the "respectable" play you mentioned. No matter how you cut it up worse QB play has won games late in the year for teams. So maybe Kliff belongs in the cant handle adversity category as well. Just say we have a qb and a coach who both havent shown well in adversity.

Its just laughable to say he's handcuffed by his QB. Kliff hasnt earned that right (and if you wanna say Kyler hasnt earned that right vice versa Im fine with that too) Shanahan got to the NFC championship game with Jimmy G trying to give games away. Just stop it.

Or just have it. And I'll agree to disagree.

 

[Stout]

Listen, the QB is the most important position on the team. His performance is thus the most important performance on the field for your team. We're arguing (well, all save those blind few who think KM can do nothing wrong) about degrees of blame, not whether KM bears blame. A lot of those arguments and KM defenses are boiling down to "teams can win when their QB isn't playing well."

Why in the world aren't we questioning why KM can't ELEVATE the team with his play? With his obvious physical talent and how good he is supposed to be, that is the most damning part of his game. He's been elevating Jack Squat, and Jack just left the stadium.

 

[BritCard]

Yes we dropped a pass that could have maybe given us 7 points. And then we missed out on another 4 points with special teams. That 16 is easily 27 if we were a more buttoned up group.

The Seahawks game we had a WR actively working against us in AJ Green. We had a LT who clearly came back too soon from Covid.

And what was maybe the most troubling thing. We approached that game like a PRESEASON game. It seemed like we were truly scoreboard watching as well.

Kyler isnt absolved. However, what you deem as pathetic is the kind of performance that other teams have won with.

No one is arguing Kyler was good. Its quite the opposite. However, it'd be crazy to say it that game was "pathetic" as well with what went on. Cause REALLY pathetic play has won games like that.

This is more about Krang deflecting it off as just a Kyler issue. When its just as much if not more about Kliff as well.

I went back and watched the game just to clear some things up and this is what I came away with.

Kyler played well, up until the point we really needed him to play well. Which was towards the end of the 3rd quarter.

We go up 13-12 and the D stops the Colts on 4th and 4 and we get the ball on our own 36 (the defense actually played very well this game). Then on 1st down he makes a pass to an open Ertz thats almost picked, but tipped. On 2nd down he throws the ball low and behind an open Green which would have been a 1st down. On 3rd he holds the ball, scrambles and throws it away.

On the next drive Colts kick a 37 yards FG to go up 15-13.

The next drive stalls out again and we kick a 41 yard FG that hits the upright. To be fair to Prater this was the game Andy Lee was out and Wilmslow holding really threw him off.

Colts score the next drive to go up 22-13 with 7 mins remaining. We still could have come back but on the next drive Kyler massively over threw Ertz on 3rd down then on 4th had a wide open Green for a 20 yard (at least) gain to stay alive and threw the ball into the ground 3 yards short and wide. Those big plays when you need them just weren't there.

I don't think Kyler was bad overall. He just had a couple of drives at a crucial time when he was not good which shifted the momentum. But the loss was as much on Kliff.

 

[Stout]

I went back and watched the game just to clear some things up and this is what I came away with.

Kyler played well, up until the point we really needed him to play well. Which was towards the end of the 3rd quarter.

We go up 13-12 and the D stops the Colts on 4th and 4 and we get the ball on our own 36 (the defense actually played very well this game). Then on 1st down he makes a pass to an open Ertz thats almost picked, but tipped. On 2nd down he throws the ball low and behind an open Green which would have been a 1st down. On 3rd he holds the ball, scrambles and throws it away.

On the next drive Colts kick a 37 yards FG to go up 15-13.

The next drive stalls out again and we kick a 41 yard FG that hits the upright. To be fair to Prater this was the game Andy Lee was out and Wilmslow holding really threw him off.

Colts score the next drive to go up 22-13 with 7 mins remaining. We still could have come back but on the next drive Kyler massively over threw Ertz on 3rd down then on 4th had a wide open Green for a 20 yard (at least) gain to stay alive and threw the ball into the ground 3 yards short and wide. Those big plays when you need them just weren't there.

I don't think Kyler was bad overall. He just had a couple of drives at a crucial time when he was not good which shifted the momentum. But the loss was as much on Kliff.

That's where you expect your star QB to step up and make plays. He didn't have to carry the team or even elevate his play; he merely had to make decent throws. He didn't, and our chances to come back were nil because of it.

 

[BritCard]

That's where you expect your star QB to step up and make plays. He didn't have to carry the team or even elevate his play; he merely had to make decent throws. He didn't, and our chances to come back were nil because of it.

Yeah I don't think Kyler was necessarily bad in many of those games. He certainly had some nice moments. He's just not very consistent under pressure.

People will say "He came back against the Vikings when down" but that was early in the game and early in the season.

When it got to those last 5 games and the Rams were pushing for the division he just didn't produce when we needed him to.

Anyway, it's done now. Hopefully he learns from all this and has an attitude adjustment in the off season and the Kyler we get all next year is the one we saw in games 1-7. Because that Kyler was awesome.

I don't even mind if he starts slowly. I'd rather start slow and end great than vice versa. Plus I have a feeling our 1st 3-4 games next year are going to be punishing.

 

[Adrian]

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[Adrian]

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[Adrian]

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[Adrian]

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[BritCard]

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You could make the argument that if they expected Kliff to take a few years to adjust to the NFL, and you're willing to shoulder that for future gain, why pair him with a #1 pick QB off the bat and risk wasting several years of his rookie deal?

 

[Adrian]

You could make the argument that if they expected Kliff to take a few years to adjust to the NFL, and you're willing to shoulder that for future gain, why pair him with a #1 pick QB off the bat and risk wasting several years of his rookie deal?

#cardinalway

 

[BritCard]

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[Stout]

You could make the argument that if they expected Kliff to take a few years to adjust to the NFL, and you're willing to shoulder that for future gain, why pair him with a #1 pick QB off the bat and risk wasting several years of his rookie deal?

Absolutely. I hate this statement. As well say, "We knew he'd suck for a while, but hey, we think he's starting to get there." What a stupid hire.

 

[juza76]

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Lol
Another upset player ending his journey with the Cardinals
There is a time u can go in a different direction especially when a player get a bit old but the front office i guess is not good relating with players

 

[Krangodnzr]

And that starts with the HC buddy. And you also said 1 person can play better than 10 other guys yet ignore other factors could have got the "respectable" play you mentioned. No matter how you cut it up worse QB play has won games late in the year for teams. So maybe Kliff belongs in the cant handle adversity category as well. Just say we have a qb and a coach who both havent shown well in adversity.

What you are conveniently missing is that you can't have your QB play poorly 4 out of 6 games and expect to win! It's just so a maddeningly silly argument.

I agree that a game here, a game there, you can win with your QB playing poorly, but you will lose more often than not when your QB is playing at a below average level.

Its just laughable to say he's handcuffed by his QB. Kliff hasnt earned that right (and if you wanna say Kyler hasnt earned that right vice versa Im fine with that too) Shanahan got to the NFC championship game with Jimmy G trying to give games away. Just stop it.

Or just have it. And I'll agree to disagree.

So....you don't think a HC is handcuffed when his QB plays poorly in 4 out of 6 games? Kliff went 2-1 with Colt McCoy as his QB, including a decisive win over the NFC runner up San Francisco 49ers.

You just "stop it". It's a damn silly argument to say that the Cardinals wouldn't have won 2-3 more games if Kyler didn't play little boy football over the last six games.

Listen...I am a HUGE Kyler Murray fan. I love the kid and think he is easily the most talented QB I've seen play for the Arizona Cardinals. The problem is really that Kyler didn't start enough in college so we are seeing him have to develop more than you would from a typical young QB. I think Kyler Murray REALLY CARES about winning. Even the criticism of his pouting is missing the point that Kyler is pouting because the kid cares a lot about winning. He isn't Derek Anderson laughing on the sideline during a loss. Kyler Murray wants to win more than nearly any player I've ever seen. But there are issues that HE needs to clean up.

If it came to it, I would sack any coach, GM, or player for the sake of Kyler. I think the kid is that good and that his future is extremely bright. But I won't ignore what is right in front of our faces. Kyler Murray played like crap down the stretch and effectively took the team from NFC front runners to a wildcard spot losing badly on the road.