Are we in an Offensive Rebuild?

kerouac9

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"But we lost Christian Kirk" is hilarious.

Hopkins (Vegas odds are trending him staying)
Brown
Rondale
Dortch
Tweezy
Ertz
McBride
Kyler

That's a perfectly good offense. One I am sure will also be added to in some shape or another.

You can argue there are some holes, there certainly are on the O line, but there is no way it's a "rebuild".
What his hilarious is that you're saying we'll have basically the same offensive personnel in 2023 as we did in 2021 while dismissing that we'll be missing the team's leading receiver for that year.

Tweezy is a free agent.
Kyler is likely to be on PUP for the first third of the season.
Ertz is likely to be the same or severely limited.

Like, do you even believe this stuff yourself?
 

BritCard

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What his hilarious is that you're saying we'll have basically the same offensive personnel in 2023 as we did in 2021 while dismissing that we'll be missing the team's leading receiver for that year.

Tweezy is a free agent.
Kyler is likely to be on PUP for the first third of the season.
Ertz is likely to be the same or severely limited.

Like, do you even believe this stuff yourself?

Kyler and Ertz being out injured isn't a "rebuild" is it.

If the question was "Will this offense be good next year?" then the answer would be "Probably not with Kyler hurt".

But that isn't the question. A rebuild would be a bunch of trades or cuts and a completely different look on offense, and that isn't happening. Maybe we trade Hopkins and draft a replacement, but that isn't a rebuild.

I expect 90% of the starting offense next year to be the same as the previous 2 years.
 
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BirdGangThing

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Kyler and Ertz being out injured isn't a "rebuild" is it.

If the question was "Will this offense be good next year?" then the answer would be "Probably not with Kyler hurt".

But that isn't the question. A rebuild would be a bunch of trades or cuts and a completely different look on offense, and that isn't happening. Maybe we trade Hopkins and draft a replacement, but that isn't a rebuild.

I expect 90% of the starting offense next year to be the same as the previous 2 years.
90%? And from 2 years ago? I don't know where you're getting these numbers from but I'm guessing you had to whipe afterwards and then flush. You do know there are only 11 starters right? LOL
 

Chris_Sanders

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I think you mean only Kyler and Thompson are on this team in 2026.

And what do you mean by Kyler's contract goes back to rookie contract levels?

Kyler's contract does this:

2024: 20% of the cap as it is now. It will be lower as we will see another record increase in the next several years due to the selling of the rights to Sunday Ticket
2025 16% of the cap as it is now
2026 11.75% of the cap as it is now
2027 6.42% of the cap as it is now

Anything below 15% is going to be just like having a rookie contract compared to the rest of the league. I full expect that 2025 contract to be in the 14% of cap range.

It's why if you want to trade him in 2025 you can though with these numbers it wouldn't be a dump. We should get some sort of return if he is remotely competent.
 

BritCard

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90%? And from 2 years ago? I don't know where you're getting these numbers from but I'm guessing you had to whipe afterwards and then flush. You do know there are only 11 starters right? LOL

The only 2 changes last year to the year before were Hernandez and Brown. Hence why I said last 2 years.

I expect them to bring Hernandez and Beechum back and the only real starter changes to be LG and C. So 80%. Apologies for not accurately spitballing a number.
 

BritCard

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Kyler's contract does this:

2024: 20% of the cap as it is now. It will be lower as we will see another record increase in the next several years due to the selling of the rights to Sunday Ticket
2025 16% of the cap as it is now
2026 11.75% of the cap as it is now
2027 6.42% of the cap as it is now

Anything below 15% is going to be just like having a rookie contract compared to the rest of the league. I full expect that 2025 contract to be in the 14% of cap range.

It's why if you want to trade him in 2025 you can though with these numbers it wouldn't be a dump. We should get some sort of return if he is remotely competent.

You sure this is right?

Kyler's cap hit in 2024 is nearly $52m. The current cap is nearly $225m. That's 23%.

In 2025 it's 20% not 16%

In 2026 it's 24.6% not 11.75%

and in 2027 it's 19.3% not 6.42%.

If the cap increases 20m every year it will be something like

2024 - 21%
2025 - 16.5%
2026 - 18.8%
2027 - 13.8%
 

Chris_Sanders

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You sure this is right?

Kyler's cap hit in 2024 is nearly $52m. The current cap is nearly $225m. That's 23%.

In 2025 it's 20% not 16%

In 2026 it's 24.6% not 11.75%

and in 2027 it's 19.3% not 6.42%.

If the cap increases 20m every year it will be something like

2024 - 21%
2025 - 16.5%
2026 - 18.8%
2027 - 13.8%

Straight from Sportstrac
 
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BirdGangThing

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The only 2 changes last year to the year before were Hernandez and Brown. Hence why I said last 2 years.

I expect them to bring Hernandez and Beechum back and the only real starter changes to be LG and C. So 80%. Apologies for not accurately spitballing a number.
Okay I guess we're doing this lol

2021 Arizona Cardinals starting offense:

Kyler Murray
Chase Edmonds (gone)
AJ Green (gone)
D-Hop (gonna be gone)
Kirk (gone)
Maxx Williams (gone)
Pugh (gone)
Hudson (gone)
Justin Murray (gone)
Kelvin Beachum (gone)

90% of the 90% you mentioned (gone)
 

kerouac9

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Kyler and Ertz being out injured isn't a "rebuild" is it.

If the question was "Will this offense be good next year?" then the answer would be "Probably not with Kyler hurt".

But that isn't the question. A rebuild would be a bunch of trades or cuts and a completely different look on offense, and that isn't happening. Maybe we trade Hopkins and draft a replacement, but that isn't a rebuild.

I expect 90% of the starting offense next year to be the same as the previous 2 years.
Seriously? Here are the guys with at least 40% of the offensive snaps from 2021:

Hump
Beachum
Kyler
Kirk
Green
Josh Jones
Max Garcia
Justin Pugh
Rodney Hudson
Zach Ertz
James Conner
DHop
Chase

And from 2022:
Beachum
Hernandez

Hollywood Brown
Billy Price
Kyler
Conner
Jones
McBride
Ertz
Hump
Hop
Green
Garcia

Dortch

Bolded are free agents. Two of the 13 "starters" in 2021 are already gone; that's 15%. Do you expect or want the bolded names back? Why wouldn't you want to rebuild an offense that was only scoring 22 PPG before Kyler got hurt (a number that is supported by a 42-point performance against New Orleans when the defense scored 14 points by themselves)?
 

kerouac9

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Kyler's contract does this:

2024: 20% of the cap as it is now. It will be lower as we will see another record increase in the next several years due to the selling of the rights to Sunday Ticket
2025 16% of the cap as it is now
2026 11.75% of the cap as it is now
2027 6.42% of the cap as it is now

Anything below 15% is going to be just like having a rookie contract compared to the rest of the league. I full expect that 2025 contract to be in the 14% of cap range.

It's why if you want to trade him in 2025 you can though with these numbers it wouldn't be a dump. We should get some sort of return if he is remotely competent.
If you think that Kyler Murray is going to play on a contract with no guaranteed money in 2027 and 2028, I don't know what to tell you.

His cap hold took up just 6.1% of the cap this year; to say that double that is "Basically a rookie contract" is a little bit of a stretch. It'll be a value if he returns to the form from his first three seasons, but there's nothing more valuable than a starting QB on a rookie contract.

For comparison, Trevor Lawrence's 2024 cap hold is just 4.6% of the total (according to OvertheCap).
 

BritCard

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Seriously? Here are the guys with at least 40% of the offensive snaps from 2021:

Hump
Beachum
Kyler
Kirk
Green
Josh Jones
Max Garcia
Justin Pugh
Rodney Hudson
Zach Ertz
James Conner
DHop
Chase

And from 2022:
Beachum
Hernandez

Hollywood Brown
Billy Price
Kyler
Conner
Jones
McBride
Ertz
Hump
Hop
Green
Garcia

Dortch

Bolded are free agents. Two of the 13 "starters" in 2021 are already gone; that's 15%. Do you expect or want the bolded names back? Why wouldn't you want to rebuild an offense that was only scoring 22 PPG before Kyler got hurt (a number that is supported by a 42-point performance against New Orleans when the defense scored 14 points by themselves)?

As I said. I expect Beechum and Hernandez back. I expect the only changes at starter to be Pugh and Hudson.
 

QuebecCard

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You sure this is right?

Kyler's cap hit in 2024 is nearly $52m. The current cap is nearly $225m. That's 23%.

In 2025 it's 20% not 16%

In 2026 it's 24.6% not 11.75%

and in 2027 it's 19.3% not 6.42%.

If the cap increases 20m every year it will be something like

2024 - 21%
2025 - 16.5%
2026 - 18.8%
2027 - 13.8%

SPOTRAC:

Percentage of Cap absorbed by KM Contact going forward:

2024: 20.39% - 2025: 14.67% - 2026: 11.75% - 2027: 6.42%
 
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BritCard

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SPOTRAC:

Percentage of Cap absorbed by KM Contact going forward:

2024: 20.39% - 2025: 14.67% - 2026: 11.75% - 2027: 6.42%

Yeah they high.

Its obviously wrong because Kyler's cap hit doesn't decrease every year.
 

Chris_Sanders

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If you think that Kyler Murray is going to play on a contract with no guaranteed money in 2027 and 2028, I don't know what to tell you.

His cap hold took up just 6.1% of the cap this year; to say that double that is "Basically a rookie contract" is a little bit of a stretch. It'll be a value if he returns to the form from his first three seasons, but there's nothing more valuable than a starting QB on a rookie contract.

For comparison, Trevor Lawrence's 2024 cap hold is just 4.6% of the total (according to OvertheCap).

I would say that any noise regarding that is a trade. Fool me once with the guaranteed money a year early...
 

kerouac9

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I would say that any noise regarding that is a trade. Fool me once with the guaranteed money a year early...
I think he'll either be traded, cut, or extended before that part of the deal comes up. Either he works out and you keep him happy or you send him away.
 

BritCard

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His Cap number doesn't, his Cap hit does.

Spotrac's calculations are based on reasonable projections of the future available Cap.

For Kylers contract to be 11.75% of the cap in 2026 the cap would have to be $473m.

It's currently $228m.

So no.
 

schutd

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No. How are we in a rebuild?

Yes, we need to resign/replace several linemen but otherwise our starting offense next year currently looks pretty much the same as last year.
Im starting to think BritCard is actually an AI "devils advocate" bot, created by Shaggy, solely to regularly and consistently supply differing opinion in order to keep traffic flowing.
 

Chopper0080

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I think he'll either be traded, cut, or extended before that part of the deal comes up. Either he works out and you keep him happy or you send him away.
Tough to believe Kyler getting a second large contract unless something significantly changes and I don't see him playing in the NFL under a bottom vet contract or as a backup.
 

BritCard

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Im starting to think BritCard is actually an AI "devils advocate" bot, created by Shaggy, solely to regularly and consistently supply differing opinion in order to keep traffic flowing.

Not my fault people don't know what a rebuild is or do and this this roster is stripping down the offense and restarting.

There are no contracts on this offense that are comfortably tradeable or cuttable outside Hollywood Brown. Not sure how you rebuild with a bunch of players you can't move.
 

dreamcastrocks

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There are more bodies and difference-makers on defense, but they're in all the wrong places.
Yep, I can't say we were in better shape on defense at this time. Both are in shambles. Hell, even our special teams will likely need a new kicker and punter this year too.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Not my fault people don't know what a rebuild is or do and this this roster is stripping down the offense and restarting.

There are no contracts on this offense that are comfortably tradeable or cuttable outside Hollywood Brown. Not sure how you rebuild with a bunch of players you can't move.
You do realize that the term rebuild isn't static. The term means different things to different people.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Tough to believe Kyler getting a second large contract unless something significantly changes and I don't see him playing in the NFL under a bottom vet contract or as a backup.
Completely agree.
 
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