A great read from 2004 on Palmer's rare personality for a QB and his limitations

[vince56]

I read this article years ago when studying psychology, and last night's game reminded me of it. I am linking a 20 page article with psychological analysis of Palmer, and comparatively other QBs. The gist of it is that while Palmer is the ideal teammate and student of the game, his mind has innate limitations when dealing with pressure situations. This article perfectly backs up everything we've seen from Palmer this year, speaks to why he is so likeable, and why he may have serious difficulties in pressure situations.

It's a great and cathartic read if you have the time.

http://www.braintypes.com/carson-palmer/

CP’s ISFJ wiring is actually innately superior to the ISFP genotype in such critical areas as self-discipline, work ethic, self-responsibility, studying plays, wanting to please others, team spirit, paying attention/listening, being aware of what’s going on, and even throwing mechanics. Nonetheless, if the ISFJ doesn’t loosen up on the field, playing with fluidity and spatial awareness, he’s in for a long day.

 

[vince56]

bump b/c I messed up the link when I first posted it (fixed now). Still a good read and shows Palmer may have a lot to overcome to win in pressure situations.

 

[pemory09]

I read this article years ago when studying psychology, and last night's game reminded me of it. I am linking a 20 page article with psychological analysis of Palmer, and comparatively other QBs. The gist of it is that while Palmer is the ideal teammate and student of the game, his mind has innate limitations when dealing with pressure situations. This article perfectly backs up everything we've seen from Palmer this year, speaks to why he is so likeable, and why he may have serious difficulties in pressure situations.

It's a great and cathartic read if you have the time.

http://www.braintypes.com/carson-palmer/

This is a fascinating analysis of CP. Amazing that it was ever made for public consumption and excellent food-for-thought as it regards his play this season. I noticed that it mentions Drew Bledsoe's success under "mastermind coach Bill Parcells." Seems that, if anyone can help CP succeed in pressure situations, I would guess it would be BA.

Many thanks for sharing!

 

[football karma]

Ok - but how about the idea that dealing with anything is made easier via exposure, and, the ability to debrief and adjust before trying again

Newton was terrible in two playoff games last year.

Russel Wilson was not very good his first two playoff runs

Roethlisberger wasn't good his first playoff run

Manning wasn't all that good

Brady and Warner are the only two I can think of who played at a high level the first time around. Those other guys: they had a chance to go, fail, and then go again the next couple years and use that experience. Palmer hasn't.

The guy I use as my Palmer benchmark is Eli Manning: a better than average QB who when surrounded by a really good team can take you places. But also a guy who when not surrounded by good play -- can look pretty dreadful.

i have no idea if this is or isn't the case As a Card fan, we better hope it is.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Ok - but how about the idea that dealing with anything is made easier via exposure, and, the ability to debrief and adjust before trying again

Newton was terrible in two playoff games last year.

Russel Wilson was not very good his first two playoff runs

Roethlisberger wasn't good his first playoff run

Manning wasn't all that good

Brady and Warner are the only two I can think of who played at a high level the first time around. Those other guys: they had a chance to go, fail, and then go again the next couple years and use that experience. Palmer hasn't.

The guy I use as my Palmer benchmark is Eli Manning: a better than average QB who when surrounded by a really good team can take you places. But also a guy who when not surrounded by good play -- can look pretty dreadful.

i have no idea if this is or isn't the case As a Card fan, we better hope it is.

+1

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ok - but how about the idea that dealing with anything is made easier via exposure, and, the ability to debrief and adjust before trying again

Newton was terrible in two playoff games last year.

Russel Wilson was not very good his first two playoff runs

Roethlisberger wasn't good his first playoff run

Manning wasn't all that good

Brady and Warner are the only two I can think of who played at a high level the first time around. Those other guys: they had a chance to go, fail, and then go again the next couple years and use that experience. Palmer hasn't.

The guy I use as my Palmer benchmark is Eli Manning: a better than average QB who when surrounded by a really good team can take you places. But also a guy who when not surrounded by good play -- can look pretty dreadful.

i have no idea if this is or isn't the case As a Card fan, we better hope it is.

I'd quibble a little bit with the first couple guys you mentioned since all of them were so much younger then Palmer, but the rest of that I can pretty much agree with.

the thing that bothers me so much was that pick in the end zone. That was literally THE EXACT SAME PLAY against the Steelers. A play that everyone and their mother said it was a throw that no veteran should EVER make. And then he makes the EXACT same mistake AGAIN? People can point to his finger all they want, but that play was such a colossal brain fart that I fear it's emblematic of his post-season play in general.

 

[conraddobler]

I'd quibble a little bit with the first couple guys you mentioned since all of them were so much younger then Palmer, but the rest of that I can pretty much agree with.

the thing that bothers me so much was that pick in the end zone. That was literally THE EXACT SAME PLAY against the Steelers. A play that everyone and their mother said it was a throw that no veteran should EVER make. And then he makes the EXACT same mistake AGAIN? People can point to his finger all they want, but that play was such a colossal brain fart that I fear it's emblematic of his post-season play in general.

BA picked him it's on BA to know his QB and do what it takes to truly reach him. I wasn't a fan of saying publicly that he thought the plays were too conservative that Palmer came up with. That stuff doesn't need to be said in the media.

Calling out some players works and some players it makes things worse. I put this on BA myself as he picked the guy and he should have more understanding what motivates him and what makes him tick.

When a person is their own worst critic then you don't ever call them out it just makes that worse. I think Palmer is one of those in those cases you are nothing but supportive and you have to watch them and look for clues to help them through stuff.

If their finger is hurting and they aren't 100 percent then you spend all week saying I know we do this no risk it thing but it's more important you don't turn the ball over it's ok if you check down or if you manage the game more, we're going to take some shots so the other team doesn't figure this out any faster than necessary do your best on those and be smart with our risks.

A timeout on that drive would be a good time to say how you doing? Make a joke, break the tension get him out of his own head.

These are all coaching skills different players take different approaches.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I'd quibble a little bit with the first couple guys you mentioned since all of them were so much younger then Palmer, but the rest of that I can pretty much agree with.



the thing that bothers me so much was that pick in the end zone. That was literally THE EXACT SAME PLAY against the Steelers. A play that everyone and their mother said it was a throw that no veteran should EVER make. And then he makes the EXACT same mistake AGAIN? People can point to his finger all they want, but that play was such a colossal brain fart that I fear it's emblematic of his post-season play in general.

Agreed... That throw was so wrong on so many levels. We had time... We had TWO timeouts left... And there were guys open underneath. It truly speaks volumes about CP that he would think the right decision was to make that throw.
That said, I actually don't think Palmer is that far off from making the turn, learning from his horrid mistakes and playing better in the post season. He did it in the second half against GB.
Peyton Manning was under .500 in post season play heading into this season. Palmer has essentially played in all of 3 post season games and he's 1 & 2.
I am feeling confident that when he's in the post season again, we will see a different and improved Carson Palmer.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Agreed... That throw was so wrong on so many levels. We had time... We had TWO timeouts left... And there were guys open underneath. It truly speaks volumes about CP that he would think the right decision was to make that throw.
That said, I actually don't think Palmer is that far off from making the turn, learning from his horrid mistakes and playing better in the post season. He did it in the second half against GB.

He wasn't good in the second half against GB. Remember, he threw an AWFUL INT in the end zone on one drive in the fourth quarter. Then, threw what should have been an INT to Shields at the one yard line AGAIN on the next drive that put us up 17-13 and the TD pass that put us up 17-13 was an awful pass to Fitz that the defender read all the way and knocked up into the air that Floyd miraculously caught.

Peyton Manning was under .500 in post season play heading into this season. Palmer has essentially played in all of 3 post season games and he's 1 & 2.
I am feeling confident that when he's in the post season again, we will see a different and improved Carson Palmer.

People keep bringing up Peyton Manning, Steve Young and Elway in this discussion... but those guys were three of the best QBs... EVER. Palmer isn't even close to being in any kind of conversation like those guys. Truth is, he's been a journeyman QB throughout most of his career with a couple really really good seasons, who has been abysmal in the playoffs.

 

[82CardsGrad]

He wasn't good in the second half against GB. Remember, he threw an AWFUL INT in the end zone on one drive in the fourth quarter. Then, threw what should have been an INT to Shields at the one yard line AGAIN on the next drive that put us up 17-13 and the TD pass that put us up 17-13 was an awful pass to Fitz that the defender read all the way and knocked up into the air that Floyd miraculously caught.

Palmer had 74 passing yards in the first half. He finished with 349 and a Passer Rating of 92.4.
The throw to Fitz that was tipped was not an "awful" pass. It was a very nice play by Shields to deflect the pass.

People keep bringing up Peyton Manning, Steve Young and Elway in this discussion... but those guys were three of the best QBs... EVER. Palmer isn't even close to being in any kind of conversation like those guys. Truth is, he's been a journeyman QB throughout most of his career with a couple really really good seasons, who has been abysmal in the playoffs.

Let's be clear... I don't place Palmer anywhere near the level of Manning, Young or Elway, or many other historically elite Hall of Fame QB's. But he's not a journeyman. He's somewhere in between a journeyman and an elite QB. His career #'s place him 18th alltime in Passing Yards (he has a legit shot to get into the top 10 next year), 16th in TD's, 16th in Completion %, 17th in Passer Rating, 13th in Game-Winning Drives... and he's now 29 & 9 as a Cardinal.
He's played in 3 playoff games and has a W and two L's. Very small sample size. Let's see what that looks like a year or two from now. My hunch is that it will improve. Or, I HOPE so anyway!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Palmer had 74 passing yards in the first half. He finished with 349 and a Passer Rating of 92.4.
The throw to Fitz that was tipped was not an "awful" pass. It was a very nice play by Shields to deflect the pass.

The ball was behind Fitz. And the previous pass hit Shields RIGHT IN THE HANDS, and he would have had nothing but 100 yards in front of him for a TD. And the pass to Brown that was picked was atrocious. He might have put up a lot of yards, but he was in no way shape or form "good" in that second half.

Let's be clear... I don't place Palmer anywhere near the level of Manning, Young or Elway, or many other historically elite Hall of Fame QB's. But he's not a journeyman. He's somewhere in between a journeyman and an elite QB. His career #'s place him 18th alltime in Passing Yards (he has a legit shot to get into the top 10 next year), 16th in TD's, 16th in Completion %, 17th in Passer Rating, 13th in Game-Winning Drives... and he's now 29 & 9 as a Cardinal.
He's played in 3 playoff games and has a W and two L's. Very small sample size. Let's see what that looks like a year or two from now. My hunch is that it will improve. Or, I HOPE so anyway!

i said journeyman through "most of his career"... which is what he's been. he had one GREAT year with the Bengals, then some okay years, then some awful years with the Raiders and one full GREAT season with us... and zero playoff success. That puts him much closer to journeyman then elite, recency bias aside.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The ball was behind Fitz. And the previous pass hit Shields RIGHT IN THE HANDS, and he would have had nothing but 100 yards in front of him for a TD. And the pass to Brown that was picked was atrocious. He might have put up a lot of yards, but he was in no way shape or form "good" in that second half.

He was much better in the 2nd half. He improved. And he played well enough to grab the W. Period.

i said journeyman through "most of his career"... which is what he's been. he had one GREAT year with the Bengals, then some okay years, then some awful years with the Raiders and one full GREAT season with us... and zero playoff success. That puts him much closer to journeyman then elite, recency bias aside.

7 years with Cincy: 62.9% completion %. 22,600 yards (only played in 4 games in '08 and of course, '04 was his rookie season), 154 TD's and 100 INT's
2 years with Oakland: 61% completion %, 6,700 yards, 35 TD's and 30 INT's on a HORRENDOUS team
3 years with the Cards: 63.4% completion %, 10,500 yards, 70 TD's and 36 INT's

I honestly don't see those numbers as journeyman... And, if he had/gets more post season experience & success, he will solidify himself far above journeyman status.
It'll be interesting how history views Carson. Virtually all of the QB's ahead of him on the alltime list for yards for example, are Hall of Famers, with the exception of Testaverde, Bledsoe and Kerry Collins.

 

[Paso Fino]

I would be surprised if Palmer was not aware of the study. It certainly would not give him much confidence.