2024 Draft Countdown/NFL Prospects thread

dreamcastrocks

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And this is the real argument about why we need 1 & 2 or 1 & 3. If the Raiders are exceptionally bad, they're likely still drafting at 6 or 8 or whatever. They fire their coach (maybe) and they need to do something.

But you still need a difference-maker in this draft, and despite all the posts on here, there aren't going to be 8 prospects with generational grades.
I'm not worried about this at all. We already shown what we can do it last year.

We got a lot of trade capital by trading down, and then still traded up to get our guy. (and he so far looks to be an elite prospect) There's no reason to expect that we couldn't do it again, especially since we should have an amazing amount of draft capital.
 

kerouac9

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I'm not worried about this at all. We already shown what we can do it last year.

We got a lot of trade capital by trading down, and then still traded up to get our guy. (and he so far looks to be an elite prospect) There's no reason to expect that we couldn't do it again, especially since we should have an amazing amount of draft capital.
If you’re happy setting ourselves up to be the worst team in the NFL for a third straight season, more power to you.

Our top offensive weapons in Conner, Ertz, and Brown are likely not on the 2024 roster, and our defense is a catastrophe. We need to turn our picks into Garrett Wilson and Sauce Gardner, not future job security for Monti Ossenfort.
 

dreamcastrocks

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If you’re happy setting ourselves up to be the worst team in the NFL for a third straight season, more power to you.

Our top offensive weapons in Conner, Ertz, and Brown are likely not on the 2024 roster, and our defense is a catastrophe. We need to turn our picks into Garrett Wilson and Sauce Gardner, not future job security for Monti Ossenfort.
I don't see how we have much of a choice. You clearly agree that our team isn't that talented, but also don't want us to get as much draft capital as possible. How does that jive?
 

kerouac9

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I don't see how we have much of a choice. You clearly agree that our team isn't that talented, but also don't want us to get as much draft capital as possible. How does that jive?
You use the draft capital you have to get better at some point. PJJ only has three cost-controlled years after this one.
 

dreamcastrocks

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You use the draft capital you have to get better at some point. PJJ only has three cost-controlled years after this one.
When you have a mid level roster, and not the worst one in the NFL?
 

outcent13

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Based on this assessment I would look to trade all three of the players mentioned at the deadline or before. Might as well add a couple mid round picks.

I would agree that if there are players where our picks slot that are head and shoulders above the next option then just take them. Ex : if Fashanu is Andrew Thomas and Alt is Levi Brown them absolutely stay put and draft the elite player. If you MHJ I wouldn’t play games, just draft him 1. Don’t risk moving down 4 or 5 picks and losing him.

If you’re happy setting ourselves up to be the worst team in the NFL for a third straight season, more power to you.

Our top offensive weapons in Conner, Ertz, and Brown are likely not on the 2024 roster, and our defense is a catastrophe. We need to turn our picks into Garrett Wilson and Sauce Gardner, not future job security for Monti Ossenfort.
 

kerouac9

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When you have a mid level roster, and not the worst one in the NFL?

How do you get to a mid-level roster if you keep pushing your cost-controlled building blocks into the future? We can keep going around on this, but Monti had a chance to take a top talent at a premier position and decided to push the asset into the future. Continuing to push that asset into the future secures job security for Monti Ossenfort at the cost of putting an entertaining product on the field for the customers of the Arizona Cardinals.

I'm not happy with that trade. It's fine if you are, tho.

Based on this assessment I would look to trade all three of the players mentioned at the deadline or before. Might as well add a couple mid round picks.

I would agree that if there are players where our picks slot that are head and shoulders above the next option then just take them. Ex : if Fashanu is Andrew Thomas and Alt is Levi Brown them absolutely stay put and draft the elite player. If you MHJ I wouldn’t play games, just draft him 1. Don’t risk moving down 4 or 5 picks and losing him.

I don't think you get much for any of Ertz, Conner, Brown, or Baker. Maybe Day 3 picks.

The argument is that you inflict maximum pain on your customers for one year and then come back strong the next year. The poverty mindset is so deep on this board that fans are already preparing themselves for a hopeless 2024.

Sounds fun.
 

dreamcastrocks

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How do you get to a mid-level roster if you keep pushing your cost-controlled building blocks into the future?
This one line, is what makes or breaks GMs. The ones that succeed at doing this, are the ones that build stable, winning franchises.

We can keep going around on this, but Monti had a chance to take a top talent at a premier position and decided to push the asset into the future.
One elite prospect on a team isn't enough to turn them into a winner, unless that is QB, and that QB is legendary. Did Myles Garrett turn around Cleveland?

I'd argue that there are 3 premier positions in the NFL.
1) QB
...
...
...
...
2) Edge rusher
3) LT

They traded down on the 2nd premier position, and got the 3rd one, and a TON of draft capital. I think a lot of people project Paris to the LT position, even if he isn't playing there at the moment. If we traded down and got a TE, or a Safety for example, that would be different.
Continuing to push that asset into the future secures job security for Monti Ossenfort at the cost of putting an entertaining product on the field for the customers of the Arizona Cardinals.
We both agree that it can't be done forever. With that said, the draft, outside of the first round, is the best way to get cost controlled players.
I'm not happy with that trade. It's fine if you are, tho.
I get why people wanted Will Anderson. I just don't think it was the best move for the franchise at its current state.
I don't think you get much for any of Ertz, Conner, Brown, or Baker. Maybe Day 3 picks.
I agree. It's why you don't trade any of them besides Baker. I think he would get a day 2 pick, and a day 3 pick in the following year.
The argument is that you inflict maximum pain on your customers for one year and then come back strong the next year. The poverty mindset is so deep on this board that fans are already preparing themselves for a hopeless 2024. Sounds fun.
We HAVE to be in a 'poverty mindset' as you like to keep saying, because we DON'T have a rich owner. We have to keep finding diamonds in the rough in free agency and hit on our draft picks, because we really don't have another choice.
 

kerouac9

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We HAVE to be in a 'poverty mindset' as you like to keep saying, because we DON'T have a rich owner. We have to keep finding diamonds in the rough in free agency and hit on our draft picks, because we really don't have another choice.
The owner has plenty of money to spend on payroll. He has plenty of money period.

If his goal is to maximize profit, this is the product you get—just barely enough to come back next year.

Plenty of owners only have their team as the source of wealth and manage to field consistently competitive teams year after year.
 

dreamcastrocks

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The owner has plenty of money to spend on payroll. He has plenty of money period.
He has money, money that most of us can't realize. He just isn't willing to spend it.
If his goal is to maximize profit, this is the product you get—just barely enough to come back next year.

Plenty of owners only have their team as the source of wealth and manage to field consistently competitive teams year after year.
See above.
 

outcent13

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How do you get to a mid-level roster if you keep pushing your cost-controlled building blocks into the future? We can keep going around on this, but Monti had a chance to take a top talent at a premier position and decided to push the asset into the future. Continuing to push that asset into the future secures job security for Monti Ossenfort at the cost of putting an entertaining product on the field for the customers of the Arizona Cardinals.

I'm not happy with that trade. It's fine if you are, tho.



I don't think you get much for any of Ertz, Conner, Brown, or Baker. Maybe Day 3 picks.

The argument is that you inflict maximum pain on your customers for one year and then come back strong the next year. The poverty mindset is so deep on this board that fans are already preparing themselves for a hopeless 2024.

Sounds fun.
I agree that with the right FA moves and a solid draft this team can be a playoff contender as soon as next year. Especially if Kyler comes back and plays well.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Keim, KK, and K1 would disagree with that statement.

Maybe he spends it incorrectly.
I'll give you Keim and KK to a degree. That money doesn't count towards any salary cap though.

They have to spend most of their salary cap in a 4 year period. Rich owners can manipulate around the salary cap by converting the dollars to bonuses. Ones that aren't willing to spend don't do that. (like us)
 

TheCardFan

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They have to spend most of their salary cap in a 4 year period. Rich owners can manipulate around the salary cap by converting the dollars to bonuses. Ones that aren't willing to spend don't do that. (like us)

Serious question. Is it that we won't do it or we haven't had a good enough team to do it?
 

dreamcastrocks

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Serious question. Is it that we won't do it or we haven't had a good enough team to do it?
I'm assuming we don't do it, because I can't think of a single example where we have been against the cap and still signed top tier free agents. We can go back and look at all of our free agent signings. I don't think any of them were anywhere close to the most expensive contracts given out that period, in regards to total dollars and years given. JJ was the closest, and that was still only a 2 year deal.

There have been examples where we convert salary to bonuses on like one year deals for example, but every team does that.
 

CardNots

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I'm assuming we don't do it, because I can't think of a single example where we have been against the cap and still signed top tier free agents. We can go back and look at all of our free agent signings. I don't think any of them were anywhere close to the most expensive contracts given out that period, in regards to total dollars and years given. JJ was the closest, and that was still only a 2 year deal.

There have been examples where we convert salary to bonuses on like one year deals for example, but every team does that.
What about Buddha’s contract at the time? Hopkins? Kyler? We have and will spend money. For me it’s we rarely spend it wisely. For god’s sake we are still paying Phillips:(
 

dreamcastrocks

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What about Buddha’s contract at the time?
I'm talking about signing new free agents, not re-signing their own. That is a quite notable distinction.

We traded for him, AND got rid of an albatross of a contract in David Johnson.
See the beginning. We re-signed Budda/Kyler to extensions, before they hit free agency. This isn't the same thing.
We have and will spend money. For me it’s we rarely spend it wisely. For god’s sake we are still paying Phillips:(
I don't disagree with you.
 
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