2024-2025 Around the NBA Thread

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
16,572
Reaction score
11,664
Location
Tempe, AZ
That's a great way to look at it. The NBA needs to figure out part two. They made the second apron HELL as you describe it. Where's the religion? Where's the path to salvation? How does a team leave HELL? That's not provided. There was a lot of thought in creating Cap Hell, but not much on how teams should be allowed to escape it and enter back into the fold.

Smart spending. Don't overpay for role players. The second apron isn't inevitable.
 

Yuma

Suns are my Kryptonite!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
21,440
Reaction score
10,961
Location
Laveen, AZ
Smart spending. Don't overpay for role players. The second apron isn't inevitable.
I get that. Once you get in, they make it real hard for you to get out, with requiring trades for matching salaries, etc. They need to let you take less in return if you want, etc.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,314
Reaction score
15,461
That's a great way to look at it. The NBA needs to figure out part two. They made the second apron HELL as you describe it. Where's the religion? Where's the path to salvation? How does a team leave HELL? That's not provided. There was a lot of thought in creating Cap Hell, but not much on how teams should be allowed to escape it and enter back into the fold.
The intent is to make the organization suffer for their misdeeds. Make good decisions, within the framework of the Cap, and when your penance has been served, you'll get another chance. If it was relatively painless to escape Hell, how motivated would any team be to avoid landing there in the first place?
 

Yuma

Suns are my Kryptonite!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
21,440
Reaction score
10,961
Location
Laveen, AZ
The intent is to make the organization suffer for their misdeeds. Make good decisions, within the framework of the Cap, and when your penance has been served, you'll get another chance. If it was relatively painless to escape Hell, how motivated would any team be to avoid landing there in the first place?
It may not be working looking at the number of teams willing to go there.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,314
Reaction score
15,461
It may not be working looking at the number of teams willing to go there.
Which ones are you talking about? Several teams are in Cap Hell, mostly due to decisions they made prior to the Cap changes. And keep in mind that things just keep getting worse the longer you languish in Cap Hell.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
85,405
Reaction score
34,711
So many players are getting waived. The Suns should have a lot of options to fill the 15th slot.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

They also let Amari Bailey walk he's an unrestricted FA.

Not that I think Amari is a star or anything but perfect example of what the Lakers are doing with Bronny. Bailey is 8 months younger than Bronny. They played together in HS and Bailey was the POY and Bronny came off the bench. Bailey's one year at UCLA, with injuries, was dramatically better than Bronny's one year at USC, with injuries.

I can see Bronny jumps better and might even project to be a better shooter but Bailey had to take a G league contract after getting drafted by Charlotte, a terrible team. Bronny gets a 4 year guaranteed contract by the Lakers.

And again I'm not blaming Bronny what's he going to do say no?
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
16,572
Reaction score
11,664
Location
Tempe, AZ
I get that. Once you get in, they make it real hard for you to get out, with requiring trades for matching salaries, etc. They need to let you take less in return if you want, etc.

We can take back less salary in a trade. We can't take more. Say a team wants Little then we can trade him for someone who only makes $3 million next season, provided they have cap space to absorb the difference between what they sent out and what he makes. That cuts almost $4 million from our salary. We can't take back more in a trade but there's no restrictions on less. Normal trade provisions are in place for trades as far as acquiring less salary. Either the team we're dealing with needs cap space to absorb the difference or the salary needs to be with 15% of the incoming salary. So a team could trade for Little's $6.75 million deal if they sent us a player making $6 million, for example, even if they're over the cap.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
114,066
Reaction score
53,744
"Continue to haunt the Suns?"

Come on Main.

I will let you choose another word. Saric played for the rival Warriors last season and now the Nuggets this season.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
114,066
Reaction score
53,744
It may not be working looking at the number of teams willing to go there.

If the CBA applies to newly signed players, trades, free agents and extensions, I'm guessing a third or more of the NBA teams will get there.
 

GatorAZ

feed hopkins
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Posts
24,674
Reaction score
17,005
Location
The Giant Toaster
Smart spending. Don't overpay for role players. The second apron isn't inevitable.

Teams like the Celtics and Nuggets shouldn’t be punished because they drafted and developed properly. The Suns getting punished for reckless moves is harder to defend. I liked Bill Simmons idea of homegrown players not counting toward a certain amount of the cap. Even if it’s a minuscule number like 85% it would be more reasonable for the penalties we see now.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
114,066
Reaction score
53,744
Kings agree to a sign and trade for DeMar DeRozan.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
19,972
Reaction score
10,892
Kings agree to a sign and trade for DeMar DeRozan.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

With the explosion of three point shooting and huge emphasis on spacing, DeRozan has been a non-factor for several years. He's a poor defender, the only thing he actually does well is ISO midrange scoring. He's very good at it, but that is a pretty limited and low value skill.

He's also been a complete disaster in the playoffs throughout his career.
 

Lorenzo

Registered User
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Posts
9,233
Reaction score
3,678
Location
Vegas
I expect they're also going to task him as the primary wing defender, and he just isn't that guy anymore. And, as we've seen, when Klay is getting roasted on defense, it melts away his confidence across the board.



I don't see it working out in Dallas for him because he's going to have pressure to be that guy, that player is gone, and I don't think Kyrie or Luka are very supportive teammates.
if Klay was still that guy, he would not be in dallas. Dallas need him to score 15 points per game for the entire season and playoffs. that will be an upgrade for dallas. and for Kyrie and doncic not being supportive of teammates. I think Irving and Doncic have a lot to do with how well their role players performed in the playoffs. especially Lively as a rookie. Lively is a guy who has a lot of potential to improve.
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
19,972
Reaction score
10,892
if Klay was still that guy, he would not be in dallas. Dallas need him to score 15 points per game for the entire season and playoffs. that will be an upgrade for dallas. and for Kyrie and doncic not being supportive of teammates. I think Irving and Doncic have a lot to do with how well their role players performed in the playoffs. especially Lively as a rookie. Lively is a guy who has a lot of potential to improve.

Will it be an upgrade if he cannot defend his position and is extremely one dimensional and wildly inconsistent on offense? Which he's been the last 2 seasons.

If the Mavs have Klay, Kyrie and Luka out there at the same time who is doing the hard stuff on defense, who's covering the ball handlers, who is rotating on screens? The Suns had this same problem last year. They sacrificed too much for "shooters" and they couldn't get any stops when it mattered.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
16,572
Reaction score
11,664
Location
Tempe, AZ
Will it be an upgrade if he cannot defend his position and is extremely one dimensional and wildly inconsistent on offense? Which he's been the last 2 seasons.

If the Mavs have Klay, Kyrie and Luka out there at the same time who is doing the hard stuff on defense, who's covering the ball handlers, who is rotating on screens? The Suns had this same problem last year. They sacrificed too much for "shooters" and they couldn't get any stops when it mattered.

It is an upgrade over Tim Hardaway Jr. Klay is a much better player than he is, even now. They don't need Klay to be the #2 offensive player either. He can be the #3 or 4, depending on the matchup.

They replaced Derrick Jones Jr with Naji Marshall and Tim Hardaway Jr with Klay. Why is that so hard for people to grasp? For some reason people here keep going back to "Klay doesn't replace Derrick Jones" when that isn't what he's doing and no one else is saying that except the doubters.

Maybe Klay doesn't work in Dallas, maybe he does. I can't blame Dallas for trying. They're coming off a finals trip where guys shrunk in the moment and couldn't shoot like they had before so they brought in a proven winner who can shoot. It'll be an adjustment for everyone but this could pay dividends for Dallas if it does work. Instead to a Cinderella type run they could become a legit top West team.
 

Lorenzo

Registered User
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Posts
9,233
Reaction score
3,678
Location
Vegas
Will it be an upgrade if he cannot defend his position and is extremely one dimensional and wildly inconsistent on offense? Which he's been the last 2 seasons.

If the Mavs have Klay, Kyrie and Luka out there at the same time who is doing the hard stuff on defense, who's covering the ball handlers, who is rotating on screens? The Suns had this same problem last year. They sacrificed too much for "shooters" and they couldn't get any stops when it mattered.
yes it will be an upgrade at both ends of the court for dallas because Klay is better than Tim Hardaway Jr. this move doesn't make Dallas any worse than they were defensively and it improves their shot making which was lacking at times in the playoffs. Kidd doesn't always have to play those 3 guys together at both ends of the court throughout the game.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
114,066
Reaction score
53,744
Gary Trent Jr. would be a good get for the Lakers.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
85,405
Reaction score
34,711
With the explosion of three point shooting and huge emphasis on spacing, DeRozan has been a non-factor for several years. He's a poor defender, the only thing he actually does well is ISO midrange scoring. He's very good at it, but that is a pretty limited and low value skill.

He's also been a complete disaster in the playoffs throughout his career.

I'm wondering if the Kings now have enough left to get Markkanen too?

It's a weird move, I read something about him wanting to come home but he's from LA not Sac.

If they can still get Lauri it's not horrible but if getting Demar takes them out of that it was dumb, unless they knew they couldn't actually get Lauri.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
85,405
Reaction score
34,711
And? He was far from a difference maker. Not sure how he's haunting the Suns.

Started off the season well and then was a non factor. So many missed layups and he seemed to go ages at the end of the year without making a 3.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
114,066
Reaction score
53,744
Time to stock up on point guards.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
114,066
Reaction score
53,744
Maybe the Suns should have signed Wiseman on the cheap?

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
542,889
Posts
5,314,036
Members
6,290
Latest member
stbmd
Top