2021-22 Around the NBA Thread

[Finito]

Make lottery teams play for the draft position. Take the bottom 4 teams so talent disparity isn't huge between worst and least worst.

They'd also need to aggressively punish tanking to keep teams out that try to game the system.

Kinda like we did to get the number 1 pick?

 

[Hoop Head]

Kinda like we did to get the number 1 pick?

We didn't really tank. We were bad but we didn't tank like OKC has by trading away anyone of value or like Golden State recently when they held out Draymond and Steph out for extended periods.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We didn't really tank. We were bad but we didn't tank like OKC has by trading away anyone of value or like Golden State recently when they held out Draymond and Steph out for extended periods.

We shut our 2nd best player down for the season when he wasn’t injured with like 15 games to go. That’s tanking.

 

[Hoop Head]

We shut our 2nd best player down for the season when he wasn’t injured with like 15 games to go. That’s tanking.

And if the league implemented some sort of tournament for draft picks then they shouldn't allow players who missed games because they were healthy to compete in those.

Like I said initially, they'd need to crack down on tanking. I'm not sure why anyone is worked up over the details of that now other than being unnecessarily pedantic.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We shut our 2nd best player down for the season when he wasn’t injured with like 15 games to go. That’s tanking.

Yeah there were franchises that went even further than we did but we definitely tanked. And I have no problem with it. The league needs to financially disincentivize teams from tanking but the franchises have to have the right to decide whether to focus on strategic improvement over immediate success.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah there were franchises that went even further than we did but we definitely tanked. And I have no problem with it. The league needs to financially disincentivize teams from tanking but the franchises have to have the right to decide whether to focus on strategic improvement over immediate success.

Yeah... I had no problem with it. I was practically the entire cheer squad rooting it on!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Pretty great Giannis v. Embiid battle going on right now. 116-115 with 3 on the clock, Giannis with 30/11/9 and Embiid 37/12/4.

A showdown between these two teams (plus Harden on Philly) in the playoffs would be a hell of a fun series to watch.

 

[Phrazbit]

We shut our 2nd best player down for the season when he wasn’t injured with like 15 games to go. That’s tanking.

Booker got shut down for his "wrist" yet we never heard even a peep about how it happened, if he was getting imaging on it... nothing, Tyson Chandler got "sore" with about 30 games to go and was never seen again. TJ Warren went down with a vague injury in March and was never seen again... but that is par for the course.

 

[Dback Jon]

Pretty great Giannis v. Embiid battle going on right now. 116-115 with 3 on the clock, Giannis with 30/11/9 and Embiid 37/12/4.

A showdown between these two teams (plus Harden on Philly) in the playoffs would be a hell of a fun series to watch.

Last three minutes have been ugly

 

[Cheesebeef]

Booker got shut down for his "wrist" yet we never heard even a peep about how it happened, if he was getting imaging on it... nothing, Tyson Chandler got "sore" with about 30 games to go and was never seen again. TJ Warren went down with a vague injury in March and was never seen again... but that is par for the course.

Oh I didn’t even remember Devin getting shut down. I was thinking of Bledsoe but maybe that was the previous season?

And Jesus... Tyson Chandler was on the Suns... signed to a huge contract when he was well past his prime and pretty washed. Thank GOD that front office is gone.

 

[Mainstreet]

Anthony Davis will re-evaluated in 4 weeks for right mid-foot sprain.

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[JCSunsfan]

Anthony Davis will re-evaluated in 4 weeks for right mid-foot sprain.

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Man that AD trade is not working out for the Lakers. That guy cannot stay healthy. That was an injury that could happen to anyone though.

 

[Mainstreet]

Man that AD trade is not working out for the Lakers. That guy cannot stay healthy. That was an injury that could happen to anyone though.

I'm not sure the Lakers should try to bring Anthony Davis back this season. Maybe they won't.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Man that AD trade is not working out for the Lakers. That guy cannot stay healthy. That was an injury that could happen to anyone though.

They won a title. It worked out fine.

 

[Russ Smith]

We didn't really tank. We were bad but we didn't tank like OKC has by trading away anyone of value or like Golden State recently when they held out Draymond and Steph out for extended periods.

Well Steph had a broken wrist so I don't think they were going to play him.

Green could have played but he has a chronic back issue that's flared up again this year, so when it became clear they were not going to make the playoffs that year, it just made sense to rest him.

I guess technically that's tanking but they didn't go into that season planning to get Wiseman, when Steph got hurt everything changed

 

[Hoop Head]

Well Steph had a broken wrist so I don't think they were going to play him.

Green could have played but he has a chronic back issue that's flared up again this year, so when it became clear they were not going to make the playoffs that year, it just made sense to rest him.

I guess technically that's tanking but they didn't go into that season planning to get Wiseman, when Steph got hurt everything changed

Steph got hurt very early on. I don't recall when but I remember talk of him missing the season was more related to Klay missing the season so than his own injury. I remember hearing tanking discussions with the Warriors as soon as Klay's injury was revealed and KD announced he was going to Brooklyn. Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I recall hearing a lot of talk about how they could replenish their roster quickly by tanking that season.

 

[Covert Rain]

We shut our 2nd best player down for the season when he wasn’t injured with like 15 games to go. That’s tanking.

The Spurs has to be the most notorious example of tanking to get Tim Duncan. All indications were that David Robinson was perfectly capable of playing and they kept him out. Same goes with Sean Elliot who somehow had tendinitis for almost the entire season and Chuck Person who suffered from season long back spasms. Almost that same team the previous season won 59 games. Also, we can't forget the Celtics did the same to try and get Duncan as well. I consider what the Suns did was nowhere near as bad but yeah...they did tank a bit as well.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Spurs has to be the most notorious example of tanking to get Tim Duncan. All indications were that David Robinson was perfectly capable of playing and they kept him out. Same goes with Sean Elliot who somehow had tendinitis for almost the entire season and Chuck Person who suffered from season long back spasms.

To me it's the most notorious example of Boston fans led by Bill Simmons shaping public opinion. They did not tank. No one but a fool would have played Robinson once the season was functionally over especially given his injuries. He missed the start of the season because of a back injury and then when he returned he broke his foot and wasn't cleared to play again until late in the season.

They were leading for the best chance at Duncan when they fired Bob Hill and won at a higher rate once Pop took over. If they tanked, they sucked at it as they raised their winning percentage over the final 25 games of the season.

Boston flat out, unquestionably tanked that season and they were bitter over the fact that they had a much worse record than the Spurs but got beat out in the lottery.

The Spurs on the other hand lost 4 of their 6 best players to legitimate injuries and two of their veterans (Avery Johnson, Vinnie Del Negro) simply went into age-related decline and were never the same again. Boston just benched their guys or pulled them in key moments.

Yet, the legend continues. More often than not you'll see the Spurs listed as the most successful tank of all time. And the facts say it's just wrong. Keep in mind they looked like a lock for the worst drafting record (the expansion Vancouver team wasn't eligible) and still brought Robinson back for 6 games until he broke his foot.

As for Sean and Person, Elliot battled tendonitis much of his career, Person had chronic arthritis and was never the same again. Sean probably could have played the final 10 games or so but even if there was no draft it wouldn't have made sense to bring him out that late in a season that was long over for them.

 

[Russ Smith]

Steph got hurt very early on. I don't recall when but I remember talk of him missing the season was more related to Klay missing the season so than his own injury. I remember hearing tanking discussions with the Warriors as soon as Klay's injury was revealed and KD announced he was going to Brooklyn. Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I recall hearing a lot of talk about how they could replenish their roster quickly by tanking that season.

I'm sure fans discussed it but Steph had a broken wrist, as soon as they diagnosed it they said 3 months minimum. Per ESPN broke it 10/30 against the Suns, next played March 5, one game then sat the last 2. So he missed 4 months. I guess technically it says broken hand not wrist.

Obviously knowing Klay was out and then Steph made it much easier to give Draymond rest.

I think the plan was to try and win games right up until Steph got hurt. Then it changed and when Draymond's issues flared up they just figured tank

 

[Covert Rain]

To me it's the most notorious example of Boston fans led by Bill Simmons shaping public opinion. They did not tank. No one but a fool would have played Robinson once the season was functionally over especially given his injuries. He missed the start of the season because of a back injury and then when he returned he broke his foot and wasn't cleared to play again until late in the season.

They were leading for the best chance at Duncan when they fired Bob Hill and won at a higher rate once Pop took over. If they tanked, they sucked at it as they raised their winning percentage over the final 25 games of the season.

Boston flat out, unquestionably tanked that season and they were bitter over the fact that they had a much worse record than the Spurs but got beat out in the lottery.

The Spurs on the other hand lost 4 of their 6 best players to legitimate injuries and two of their veterans (Avery Johnson, Vinnie Del Negro) simply went into age-related decline and were never the same again. Boston just benched their guys or pulled them in key moments.

Yet, the legend continues. More often than not you'll see the Spurs listed as the most successful tank of all time. And the facts say it's just wrong. Keep in mind they looked like a lock for the worst drafting record (the expansion Vancouver team wasn't eligible) and still brought Robinson back for 6 games until he broke his foot.

As for Sean and Person, Elliot battled tendonitis much of his career, Person had chronic arthritis and was never the same again. Sean probably could have played the final 10 games or so but even if there was no draft it wouldn't have made sense to bring him out that late in a season that was long over for them.

I still call bull. I understand that some fans want to write this off as legend. However, Elliot as you stated he battled tendonitis much of his career. I have had tendonitis in my leg since high school. Elliot played through the tendonitis his entire career. He was capable of playing. Same goes with Chuck Person. He played through it much of his career. Both things bothered both players the previous season and yet they played through it. Nobody is alleging these were not legitimate things both players dealt with. Not only wasn't it unique to those players in their own careers bot a ton of NBA players have the same issues and play through them. It's total ******** they couldn't play. Also, their rotation choices were beyond suspect. Yes they brought Robinson back for 6 games before he broke his foot. However, stories still persisted that he could have come back sooner and that his foot had healed and could have returned after.

In terms of their shooters now being too old? THERE WAS NO INSIDE GAME. Every team on the planet stayed home on their guards because there was no inside presence. Sure they had some guys getting older but you can't write it off that they fell off a cliff after winning 59 games the previous season. My gosh look at the Suns and how much better our shooters looks with a legit inside presence. Funny how Vinny Del Negro's 3P% went up the following season. His scoring was down but that's because they had two bigs scoring down low. Avery? He was so old they kept him around 4 more years.

Tanking was not going to guarantee them Duncan. Yes, luck still had to play a role. However, franchises (i.e. the Celtics), Rockets, Spurs etc. have all had stories around tanking to get A CHANCE at the top pick. You can believe what you want but to me they tanked to get a shot and a ton of people believe it's not a myth.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I still call bull. I understand that some fans want to write this off as legend. However, Elliot as you stated he battled tendonitis much of his career. I have had tendonitis in my leg since high school. Elliot played through the tendonitis his entire career. He was capable of playing. Same goes with Chuck Person. He played through it much of his career. Both things bothered both players the previous season and yet they played through it. Nobody is alleging these were not legitimate things both players dealt with. Not only wasn't it unique to those players in their own careers bot a ton of NBA players have the same issues and play through them. It's total ******** they couldn't play. Also, their rotation choices were beyond suspect. Yes they brought Robinson back for 6 games before he broke his foot. However, stories still persisted that he could have come back sooner and that his foot had healed and could have returned after.

In terms of their shooters now being too old? THERE WAS NO INSIDE GAME. Every team on the planet stayed home on their guards because there was no inside presence. Sure they had some guys getting older but you can't write it off that they fell off a cliff after winning 59 games the previous season. My gosh look at the Suns and how much better our shooters looks with a legit inside presence. Funny how Vinny Del Negro's 3P% went up the following season. His scoring was down but that's because they had two bigs scoring down low. Avery? He was so old they kept him around 4 more years.

Tanking was not going to guarantee them Duncan. Yes, luck still had to play a role. However, franchises (i.e. the Celtics), Rockets, Spurs etc. have all had stories around tanking to get A CHANCE at the top pick. You can believe what you want but to me they tanked to get a shot and a ton of people believe it's not a myth.

I'm not writing it off as legend, the idea that it was tanking grew over time. But it was myth then and it's myth now. I'm old enough to remember when there was no lottery and teams did the same thing back then. It makes no sense to use up your established veterans when the season is effectively over.

And Person couldn't play, hell he couldn't walk. Also, it's ludicrious to imply that what one can do with tendonitis is the same for everyone. Or that what one can do with tendonitis one day is the same thing they can do on another day.

That year they supposedly tanked was the last time Vinny averaged double digits. Person was out of the league three years after he was forced out for a season and he never again averaged even 7 points per. The arthritis in his back effectively ended his career, not just that season. And I believe it was the actual end of Charles Smith's career.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm not writing it off as legend, the idea that it was tanking grew over time. But it was myth then and it's myth now. I'm old enough to remember when there was no lottery and teams did the same thing back then. It makes no sense to use up your established veterans when the season is effectively over.

And Person couldn't play, hell he couldn't walk. Also, it's ludicrious to imply that what one can do with tendonitis is the same for everyone. Or that what one can do with tendonitis one day is the same thing they can do on another day.

That year they supposedly tanked was the last time Vinny averaged double digits. Person was out of the league three years after he was forced out for a season and he never again averaged even 7 points per. The arthritis in his back effectively ended his career, not just that season.

What? No. People were saying the Spurs were tanking at the time it was happening.

 

[AzStevenCal]

What? No. People were saying the Spurs were tanking at the time it was happening.

The talk that season was about Boston tanking, I never heard a word about San Antonio doing it until they hit the lottery and then it was all we heard and grew by leaps and bounds as Simmons made it an issue every he chance got.

Not counting the pick-less expansion team, the Spurs were in last place for much of the season but won their way out of it thanks to wins of their own and Boston deciding to throw games. Who tanks to win something other than the best lottery position?

Boston had 15 wins but closed the season 6-42 to pass the Spurs.

 

[Covert Rain]

What? No. People were saying the Spurs were tanking at the time it was happening.

Yep it was happening in real time. People were even calling out the rotations and the team pulling the starters way early in games while the rest of the talk was happening around "resting" players.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yep it was happening in real time. People were even calling out the rotations and the team pulling the starters way early in games while the rest of the talk was happing around "resting" players.

Yeah. That’s complete revisionist history.