2006 Cardinals: QB Speculation

[Mitch]

Just my opinion here...but if indeed Warner was feeling cobwebs after his helmet to helmet hit from Witherspoon (let's face it, Warner's play declined dramatically after that, leading to the first two INTs on consecutive passes)...Warner should have taken himself out...but...Warner won't take himself out, even to the detriment of the team, because he fears that once Matt Leinart goes in, he's never coming out.

To those of you who think that playing Leinart would (A) be a symbol that the coaches are throwing in the towel; (B) diminish the Cardinals' chances of winning; (C) limit what the Cardinals can do on offense...

IMO, Leinart is not your everyday rookie...which is exactly why Warner is looking over his shoulder...and should be...Leinart is a better game manager than Eli Manning (who pushed Warner out after a few games), and a more consistent passer.

Therefore...(A) going to Leinart would be a symbol that the coaches are trying to do what's best for the team by playing the best players; (B) Leinart's smarts and mobility (footwork) and penchant for distributing the ball would give the Cardinals the best chance to win; (C) if anything, with Leinart's understanding of down and distance and game situations (like when to up the tempo late in halfs) the Cardinals' offense will be more multi-dimensional than it is right now.

Found myself cranking Fleetwood Mac's "Tusk" on my headphones this morning...with the USC band booming...and visions of jam packed stadiums in my mind...and all I could see was Matt Leinart throwing pocket precision passes to WRs and TEs in full stride...and...the Cardinals...yes, the Cardinals have finally arrived!

If you have "Tusk"...crank it up and see what YOUR mind does!

 

[Mitch]

See...here are my concerns...

Warner will do what Jake did when Jake was turnover prone and starting to realize that he may get the hook: play ultra-conservatively and tentatively, opting to swallow the ball under pressure, thus leading to countless three and outs and or stalled drives.

In addition...I think that the longer the team waits to give Leinart the nod...(A) the worse the team's record is going to be...and (B) the more rusty Leinart will become (he's not the type of QB who needs to stand around to learn...just go back to Leinart's first pre-season performance at New England...he hadn't even practiced for a week and he came right in and started throwing on the money all over the field as if he had been in camp for a month). Not only is Leinart more ready than ever right now, IMO, he was ready two years ago.

 

[BigRedArk]

I agree Mitch...I don't feel that starting ML will mean that the coaches are throwing in the towel on the season nor diminish the Cards chances of winning or limit the offense. One concern I have is the one Harry expressed about him possibly becoming "shell shocked" playing behind this OL and their sometimes suspect pass protection. Harry of course expressed it much more eloquently than I just did. Something to that effect however. In other words I dont want ML to end up like Timm Rosenbach..rattled and "shell shocked".

Hey hey I finally made it to a thousand posts. Seems like it took forever to get here (pats self on the back).

 

[imaCafan]

The way I see things playing out (like I'm an expert ) is thusly:

IF Warner plays poorly this Sunday AT Atlanta, it's a road game we were expected to loose to a decent defensive team. Still strike one. If his play is like last week, he could get as many as three strikes, but probably not. The following week at home against KC, if we loose and Warner has a poor performance, in comes strickes two AND three. Matt will then get the nod for his first start on MNF against Chicago. I wish Warner well, but if we are 1-4 I would like to see Leinart in there for MNF!!!!!

 

[PJ1]

Not sure how you make statements like "Leinart is a better game manager than Eli Manning" Last I checked Leinart had never played in an NFL regular season game.

I do agree that sticking with Warner is a mistake if he keeps turning the ball over. Giving up on the season would be leaving him in.

I also fear that he will be taking alot of sacks tomorrow and will hold the ball even longer than usual.

 

[RFIP]

Lie's, damn lies and statistics... Below is a sampling of 21 NFL starting QB's. There TD's and turnovers. Those who DON'T have to to do much, don't. And thus their TD's and int's are about even (AND LOW). Those who are called upon to be a play MAKER have higher TD's/turnovers.

Kurt who can (obviously) play much better, is in now way "exclusive" company, as this list proves.

Bulger 2 TD's 2 turnovers
Hasselbach 6 TD's 5 turnovers (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Smith 3 TD's 1 turnover
Warner 5 TD's 6 turnovers
Palmer 6 TD's 6 turnovers (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Big Ben 0 TD's 5 turnovers (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Frye 2 TD's 7 turnovers
McNair 3 TD's 3 tuenovers (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Bledsoe 3 TD's 3 turnovers
Brees 3 TD's 4 int's (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Carr 6 TD's 3 turnovers (note Carr has fumbled 6 times)
Collins, Kerry 1 TD 6 turnovers
Culpepper 1 TD 3 turnovers (Better defense, OL and running game)
Green 0 TD's 1 turnovers
Johnson, Brad 1 TD 2 turnovers (Better defense, OL and running game)
Kitna 2 TD's 2 turnovers
Eli 8 TD's 6 turnovers (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Brady 4 TD's 4 turnovers (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Plummer 2 TD's 5 turnovers (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Brooks 0 TD's 2 turnovers
Vick 3 TD's 1 turnover (<Better defense, OL and running game)

 

[green machine]

Lie's, damn lies and statistics... Below is a sampling of 21 NFL starting QB's. There TD's and turnovers. Those who DON'T have to to do much, don't. And thus their TD's and int's are about even (AND LOW). Those who are called upon to be a play MAKER have higher TD's/turnovers.

Kurt who can (obviously) play much better, is in now way "exclusive" company, as this list proves.

Bulger 2 TD's 2 turnovers
Hasselbach 6 TD's 5 turnovers (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Smith 3 TD's 1 turnover
Warner 5 TD's 6 turnovers
Palmer 6 TD's 6 turnovers (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Big Ben 0 TD's 5 turnovers (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Frye 2 TD's 7 turnovers
McNair 3 TD's 3 tuenovers (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Bledsoe 3 TD's 3 turnovers
Brees 3 TD's 4 int's (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Carr 6 TD's 3 turnovers (note Carr has fumbled 6 times)
Collins, Kerry 1 TD 6 turnovers
Culpepper 1 TD 3 turnovers (Better defense, OL and running game)
Green 0 TD's 1 turnovers
Johnson, Brad 1 TD 2 turnovers (Better defense, OL and running game)
Kitna 2 TD's 2 turnovers
Eli 8 TD's 6 turnovers (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Brady 4 TD's 4 turnovers (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Plummer 2 TD's 5 turnovers (<Better defense, OL and running game)
Brooks 0 TD's 2 turnovers
Vick 3 TD's 1 turnover (<Better defense, OL and running game)

What isn't listed is the times Warner has fumbled and the Cards have recovered. That helps shed light on his pathetic play so far.

 

[Evil Ash]

What isn't listed is the times Warner has fumbled and the Cards have recovered. That helps shed light on his pathetic play so far.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument

 

[RFIP]

Nor is the other QB's fumbles that weren't lost. Most, if not all on this list have fumbled (but not lost) 3 or MORE times. Your comment is pathetic, and the sign of a loser.

How about the negative runs by Edge? How about the times he couldn't get in form the one yard line? How about the lack of him picking up rushing first downs? Is his positive yards all him, and the negative plays on the OL?

Dude you better wake up if you think Kurt is the problem on this team. But hey, why wake up now?

 

[green machine]

Nor is the other QB's fumbles that weren't lost. Most, if not all on this list have fumbled (but not lost) 3 or MORE times. Your comment is pathetic, and the sign of a loser.

How about the negative runs by Edge? How about the times he couldn't get in form the one yard line? How about the lack of him picking up rushing first downs? Is his positive yards all him, and the negative plays on the OL?

Dude you better wake up if you think Kurt is the problem on this team. But hey, why wake up now?

OK so I'm pathetic and I'm a loser because I think Kurt turns the ball over too much (which he does). Nice.

At any rate, Kurt doesn't have to do as much because of the weapons this team has. He has two stud WR's, a great RB, and a couple OK TE's with a line that has not been as bad as the Kurt apologists have been making it out to be.

The fumbles this year and the INT's last week seemed like Kurt was trying to do too much. Holding onto the ball longer, taking the hit, and fumbling (or getting knocked around) because he was hoping to make a big play downfield, rather then just dumping it off to Edge or a TE, or even throwing it away. Then last week he was throwing into double coverage in the red zone, which pretty much takes guranteed points off the board.

 

[Rats]

OK so I'm pathetic and I'm a loser because I think Kurt turns the ball over too much (which he does). Nice.

At any rate, Kurt doesn't have to do as much because of the weapons this team has. He has two stud WR's, a great RB, and a couple OK TE's with a line that has not been as bad as the Kurt apologists have been making it out to be.

The fumbles this year and the INT's last week seemed like Kurt was trying to do too much. Holding onto the ball longer, taking the hit, and fumbling (or getting knocked around) because he was hoping to make a big play downfield, rather then just dumping it off to Edge or a TE, or even throwing it away. Then last week he was throwing into double coverage in the red zone, which pretty much takes guranteed points off the board.

I still subscribe to this last game being a team loss. The Wrs dropped passes, the OL pass protection was atrotious and had Warner hurried and hit many times. Still your Qb has to hold on to the ball so he deserves plenty of blame as well. I think the Coaches know they blew it as well and if they play Leinart they are making things seem as if Warner was the only problem and he wasn't. They are making the right call for this week on the Qb. If he again holds the ball to long and lets blitzes rattle him and doesn't take the hot read or dump to Edge, then next week is the start of Leinarts reign. I want this kid to be ready for the long haul and I do not think he is ready to go to Atl and beat that team and there defense even with our offensive weapons. Warner may not be ready either but you ride the horse that brung ya....and that is Warner this week, even if he does seem as though he is pulling up lame.

 

[CorporalCardinal]

Nor is the other QB's fumbles that weren't lost. Most, if not all on this list have fumbled (but not lost) 3 or MORE times. Your comment is pathetic, and the sign of a loser.

How about the negative runs by Edge? How about the times he couldn't get in form the one yard line? How about the lack of him picking up rushing first downs? Is his positive yards all him, and the negative plays on the OL?

Dude you better wake up if you think Kurt is the problem on this team. But hey, why wake up now?

Speaking of waking up, when are you going to? Kurt has a turnover problem. He reminds me of Dave Kreig, when he was on he was a very solid qb, but good God did he fumble his way out of jobs. This seems to be what Kurt is doing. Amazing how James has rushed for the 13th highest total behind a shifting offensive line that hasn't had any continuaty so far and isn't that talented to begin with, yet you continue to bash Edge. Hmmm, are you related to Jaws by any chance? You know the idiot that says Edge is on the downside of his career.

Wake up and get over your man crush on Warner long enough to see that he's choked the last two weeks in a row.

 

[artp]

Denny Green is not stupid. If it looks like the Cardinals are out of the Playoffs after the next 2- 3 games, Green will put in M Leinart. its the only way for him to save his job for 2007. The Cardinals will be entering a "Different ERA" with Leinart. HC Green will not get fired if he starts Leinart at any time this season.

 

[Stout]

Not sure how you make statements like "Leinart is a better game manager than Eli Manning" Last I checked Leinart had never played in an NFL regular season game.

I do agree that sticking with Warner is a mistake if he keeps turning the ball over. Giving up on the season would be leaving him in.

I also fear that he will be taking alot of sacks tomorrow and will hold the ball even longer than usual.

I'm pretty sure he meant in the year that Eli took over for Warner. That would explain it.

 

[Harry]

If the question is, which QB gives the Cards the best chance to win, I think it’s a tossup. So obviously my previous concerns with inserting Leinart have little to do with winning now. When this type of issue comes up everyone wants to throw out the names of the few quarterbacks who have survived on-the-job training. I would submit the list is about 5 times longer of the ones who have not survived. The ones who ended up with incurable “happy feet,” injured or simply were constantly quarterbacking in a panic mode. The latter being characterized by perpetually throwing into double coverage or telegraphing their throws by locking on one receiver. Of course some of the failing group wouldn’t have succeeded in any scenario. However, enough of them displayed failed to display these bad habits in college that clearly they regressed in the NFL. For those thinking the NFL is tougher, it is in many ways, but at a major program, the college pressure can often be greater.

I fully believe Leinart will become one the best QB’s to ever wear the Cardinal red. What I don’t want to see is a career cut short by post-concussion syndrome. You don’t put one of your prized possessions on a shelf held up by duct tape. It’s become boring writing and reading about the offensive line woes of the Cardinals, so I’ll be brief. Everyone, including Green, either knew better or should have known better than to enter the season with a line this weak. Most of you in AZ didn’t have to watch the game on TV. For those of us who did, we were treated to the announcers constantly pointing out what opposing teams have said about the Cardinal line since McGinnis started the trend. They are huge, but they are not mobile, because they have terrible footwork and lack true agility. They also couldn't recognize a stunt if they were sitting at the circus.

There is a tremendous amount to learn about the NFL game. It’s accurate that much of it can only be learned on the field. I’m fine Leinart getting a few plays here and a few plays there and eventually taking over for Warner later in the season. Does anyone seriously think Warner can play 16 games? In fact, if Abraham was playing today, Warner likely wouldn’t survive this week. The line will be a little more stable in a few weeks. We actually saw better play calling last week. The Cards’ coaches came out of the off-season deluding themselves as to how good the offensive line was. They had these game plans with slow developing routes, plus they thought play action would freeze the rushers. Last week they ran more quick release plays, though still not enough. The Cards also finally ran some of the obvious plays choices with James that offered the hope of success.

Leinart is learning every game. This team is marginal at best for the playoffs unless they change their style of play on both sides of the ball. My hope is that the Cards don’t sacrifice the future for a one-and-out playoff chance.

 

[BigRedArk]

If the question is, which QB gives the Cards the best chance to win, I think it’s a tossup. So obviously my previous concerns with inserting Leinart have little to do with winning now. When this type of issue comes up everyone wants to throw out the names of the few quarterbacks who have survived on-the-job training. I would submit the list is about 5 times longer of the ones who have not survived. The ones who ended up with incurable “happy feet,” injured or simply were constantly quarterbacking in a panic mode. The latter being characterized by perpetually throwing into double coverage or telegraphing their throws by locking on one receiver. Of course some of the failing group wouldn’t have succeeded in any scenario. However, enough of them displayed failed to display these bad habits in college that clearly they regressed in the NFL. For those thinking the NFL is tougher, it is in many ways, but at a major program, the college pressure can often be greater.

I fully believe Leinart will become one the best QB’s to ever wear the Cardinal red. What I don’t want to see is a career cut short by post-concussion syndrome. You don’t put one of your prized possessions on a shelf held up by duct tape. It’s become boring writing and reading about the offensive line woes of the Cardinals, so I’ll be brief. Everyone, including Green, either knew better or should have known better than to enter the season with a line this weak. Most of you in AZ didn’t have to watch the game on TV. For those of us who did, we were treated to the announcers constantly pointing out what opposing teams have said about the Cardinal line since McGinnis started the trend. They are huge, but they are not mobile, because they have terrible footwork and lack true agility. They also couldn't recognize a stunt if they were sitting at the circus.

There is a tremendous amount to learn about the NFL game. It’s accurate that much of it can only be learned on the field. I’m fine Leinart getting a few plays here and a few plays there and eventually taking over for Warner later in the season. Does anyone seriously think Warner can play 16 games? In fact, if Abraham was playing today, Warner likely wouldn’t survive this week. The line will be a little more stable in a few weeks. We actually saw better play calling last week. The Cards’ coaches came out of the off-season deluding themselves as to how good the offensive line was. They had these game plans with slow developing routes, plus they thought play action would freeze the rushers. Last week they ran more quick release plays, though still not enough. The Cards also finally ran some of the obvious plays choices with James that offered the hope of success.

Leinart is learning every game. This team is marginal at best for the playoffs unless they change their style of play on both sides of the ball. My hope is that the Cards don’t sacrifice the future for a one-and-out playoff chance.

What he said!!!!