2005 Outlook

[joeshmo]

is like trying to hit a moving dartboard blindfolded.

Dont ever bring up the summer camp of 95 accident again. Bad Memories.

 

[Russ Smith]

Guess not...

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3329770

remember, this time last year Jeff Blake was starting and Green was talking him up.

Doesn't mean josh won't be the starter, just means that Green and will change his mind often, as he did this year.

I hope he's right about josh if he commits to him again.

 

[Rats]

I am a little late to this thread but it is not something new that we havn;t discussed before with regards to the Qb. The one thing that is not mentioned is that the the new Oc Rowen will interview Josh and John. He will watch film with them and ask them what they were thinking in this situation and why they did what they did. Once he is comfortable with what he perceives as there weaknesses and strengths he will decide if he can Win with them at the helm. Then he will recommend to Denny and Rod what needs to be done. Despite the naysayers Josh did alot of really good things at Qb this season. Several have suggested that all he did is miss receivers everytime out. This could not be further from the truth. He had many good steady moments where he delivered the ball on the money both deep and short and over the middle. There were also several times this did not happen. Every Qb in the league has these things happen. Not just Cardinal Qbs. I can't wait for the decision to come down so that we know and don't have to continually here how inadequete the Cards Qbs are. I still think Josh will pervail and be an outstanding Qb with better personel a round him.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I still think Josh will pervail and be an outstanding Qb with better personel a round him.

I am with you Rats

 

[Stout]

He had many good steady moments where he delivered the ball on the money both deep and short and over the middle. There were also several times this did not happen.

Actually, I'd flip this statement. He had several good steady moments where he delivered the ball on the money deep, short, and/or over the middle, but there were also many times when this did not happen. Let's not pretend he had more good, or even spectacular plays, than he did poor or abysmal plays.

Now, I'm not trying to antagonize you, Rats. I seriously don't want to do that. I'm going to offer the same civil deal I offered to Tango, who of course ignored it. Why don't you, in clear terms, say what you felt Josh did right, and why you feel he is going to be a solid QB. I'll read what you have to say and respond with my respectful ideas. Deal?

 

[JeffGollin]

If it were up to me (which it obviously isn't), this is what I'd do:

QB - Keep McCown and (assuming there's someone better in free agency or a trade) bring in a vet. And, if I couldn't pull that off, draft a QB in the first three rounds if the value was there whjen we picked. (Smith at #8 would be tempting. Orton at #40 - #44 or LeFlor at #72 - #76 would be tempting).

RB - Unless I could land someone in free agency I was really in love with (Alexander, maybe. Henry maybe not), I'd tend to stand pat with Shipp, Hambrick and possibly Emmitt as a player-coach if he'd do it).

WR - Stand pat with our three top guys, but get a burner in free agency or the draft.

TE - Gotta get someone who can block (both run and pass). FJ would be on uncertain footing.

OL - Ask Rowen for an analysis and recommendation. What I'd want to know is: "Can he get the O-line squared away with the guys we've got? Or do we need to cut some guys and bring new guys in?"

DL - I'd want to sign one premier FA nose tackle and draft another. And possibly bring up a quality UT (by draft or free agency) to push Dockett.

LB - Hayes becomes our starting Mike guy. We'd need quality depth behind him (FA or draft pick). McKinnon probably would be history. We can live with the OLB's we've got, but always look to upgrade depth.

DB - Aggressively pursue a shut down corner opposite Macklin to enable Starks and Hill to excell in nickel and dime packages. We're OK at safety.

Special - Punter and Kicker OK. If we could bring in someone like Sproles to provide a homerun threat returning punts and kickoffs, we should do it.

And - in line with Dennis' draft philosophy - think opportunitistically with regard to the draft. If there's an athlete where we pick who's clearly superior to everyone else on our board, we've got to pick him even if there's a log-jam at his position.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Quarterback:

Don't be surpised if Josh McCown, a restricted free agent, is not re-signed.

A lot of people are going to be shocked when this happens.

 

[john h]

Quarterback:

Don't be surpised if Josh McCown, a restricted free agent, is not re-signed. If he is, it may be to trade him. Dennis Green has another young QB in John Navarre, who Green drafted and likes. Navarre came from a big-time college program and is used to playing in front of 80,000 fans. He sits tall in the pocket and hangs tough under pressure. If he develops a quicker release and an ability to sidestep pressure, he may emerge as a quality NFL QB. However, Green will not turn the reins over to Navarre next season, unless injuries force him to.

The question is: what veteran QB will Green tab as his starter in 2005? While names like Brad Johnson, Kurt Warner and Rich Gannon will be discussed by the fans and media...the player Green may be targeting more than any other is Kelly Holcomb of the Cleveland Browns. With endorsements from his Green's son and former Browns' assistant coach Clancy Pendergast, Green will likely become enamored with Holcomb's productive and sometimes eye-popping numbers. Holcomb is injury prone, which is a deterrent. However, Holcomb has the ability to throw the deep ball in the vertical passing game, which is what Green covets the most in a QB.

If Green doesn't land Holcomb, don't be surprised if Green turns his attention to Quincy Carter...for the same reason above.

In addition, if Utah's Alex Smith is still on the board at #8 in the draft, Green will be tempted to rush his name to the podium. Smith has the height, arm, athletic ability and supreme smarts to emerge as a highly productive chainmover in the NFL.

I like any of this Walter. Also agree McCown may not even be on the team next year. Right now I would keep Navarre as opposed to McCown as I think he has more upside. I have seen McCown for a season and have a sense of what he can do..

 

[john h]

Wide Receivers:

The experiment to use Anquan Boldin primarily on the perimeter is over. Look for Boldin to to line up and motion out of the slot in order to do what he does best, run crossing patters over the middle and intermediate zones, with occasional misdirection routes to the outside and go patterns up the seams.

Larry Fitzgerald will be a year stronger and will expand on his role. This off-season, he will add ten pounds and will adopt a Jerry Rice-type training regimen...which will allow Fitz to heighten his agility and improve on his route running.

Bryant Johnson needs to focus this off-season on becoming a homerun threat. He needs to work with a track specialist to improve his speed...and if he does, look for Johnson, who as already improved his hands and concentration, to turn heads next year.

It's likely that there will be two new additions as the 4th and 5th WRs, as none of the current WRs on the roster seem to have enough overall talent and/or special teams ability to remain on the roster. Early on day two, Green may pounce on a speedy, shifty young WR like Pudue's Taylor Stubblefield or Maryland's Steve Suter.

One draft scenario to note: what if USC's WR Mike Williams falls to #8 and is sitting there when the Cardinals pick. If Dennis Green maintains his best athlete regardless of position philosophy...it wouldn't be a total suprise to see him snag Williams. Green drafted Randy Moss when it appeared he was set at WR with Cris Carter and Jake Reed. And we know how Green loves his three WR sets.

As for the TE position: the only player on the roster who will remain on the roster is Eric Edwards, who made strides as an undrafted rookie that past season. Freddie Jones will not be re-signed. And Lorenzo Diamond may be too one-dimensional. If Green wants to use his first round pick on Heath Miller (Virginia)...he probably will trade down and recover an extra pick, especially if the 3rd and 6th round picks are gone. However, it's more likely Green will use a second day pick on a player like Alex Holmes of USC or Andrew Clarke of Toledo...and add a veteran free agent TE prior to the draft.

Drafting another receiver with our #1 would be totally foolish in my opinion. Why????? We need to many other positions filled. I do not care if he is the best left at #8 there has to be some balance in a draft. We could end up drafting receivers for the next 5 years with our #1 if DG thinks they are the best players. You take the best if it fits your needs.

 

[john h]

Am I alone in thinking the exact OPPOSITE should be the case? FItz and Boldin need to lighten up to get quicker and faster. Quan had an excuse, he had a knee injury and couldn't run so he gained a bit of weight and had already buffed up in the offseason. Fitz probably couldn't run too well on his ankle. But I'd like to see both guys 10 pounds lighter this year, they're big enough and plenty strong enough(even though Fitz has said he needs to get stronger) they need to be quicker and faster.

I doubt Green would take Williams, he's a great player but 3 WR's who all lack true deep speed wouldn't make much sense and it would just further create a problem with Quan unless he's signed a new deal before the draft. now you'd have 3 WR's on the roster making first round money and you could almost guarantee Rosenhaus would pitch a fit about Quan's contract.

These guys are not fat by any means. You gain weight with strength training. Look at champion sprinters like Bullet Bob Hayes. These guys are a lot of muscle. Lose weight for Fitz or Bolden I do not think so. Speed is mostly a God given thing and not much you can do to increase it for an already in shape receiver.

 

[john h]

Actually, I'd flip this statement. He had several good steady moments where he delivered the ball on the money deep, short, and/or over the middle, but there were also many times when this did not happen. Let's not pretend he had more good, or even spectacular plays, than he did poor or abysmal plays.

Now, I'm not trying to antagonize you, Rats. I seriously don't want to do that. I'm going to offer the same civil deal I offered to Tango, who of course ignored it. Why don't you, in clear terms, say what you felt Josh did right, and why you feel he is going to be a solid QB. I'll read what you have to say and respond with my respectful ideas. Deal?

We all watched all of Josh's play last year and is it not interesting how we can come away with completely opposite view points on his abilities and future. I guess we are like witnesses to a murder. We all saw something different. There are some facts that are indisputable such as we had one of the worst passing offenses in the NFL. We won 6 games. Now we can argue why these things happened but we cannot argue they did happen.

 

[Russ Smith]

These guys are not fat by any means. You gain weight with strength training. Look at champion sprinters like Bullet Bob Hayes. These guys are a lot of muscle. Lose weight for Fitz or Bolden I do not think so. Speed is mostly a God given thing and not much you can do to increase it for an already in shape receiver.

Quan lifted a lot in the offseason and got bigger, visibly bigger. I have no problem with that, but with the knee I feel he was playing too heavy. Fitz is already 223 pounds. I am not calling him or Quan fat, just pointing out that neither one of them has a problem with strength their problem is speed and quickness and being a bit lighter is one way to help that.

Early in the year Fitz said he needed to get stronger, I just don't see that as being his weakness, would rather have him working with a speed coach(as Walt suggested Johnson do) than try to bulk up.

Maybe it's just watching David Boston "hulk up" that makes me say that, none of these guys are that dumb but IMHO they all need speed more than power.

 

[Tangodnzr]

We all watched all of Josh's play last year and is it not interesting how we can come away with completely opposite view points on his abilities and future. I guess we are like witnesses to a murder. We all saw something different. There are some facts that are indisputable such as we had one of the worst passing offenses in the NFL. We won 6 games. Now we can argue why these things happened but we cannot argue they did happen.

Your grasp of the obvious is underwhelming!

 

[Tangodnzr]

If it were up to me (which it obviously isn't), this is what I'd do:

QB - Keep McCown and (assuming there's someone better in free agency or a trade) bring in a vet. And, if I couldn't pull that off, draft a QB in the first three rounds if the value was there whjen we picked. (Smith at #8 would be tempting. Orton at #40 - #44 or LeFlor at #72 - #76 would be tempting).

RB - Unless I could land someone in free agency I was really in love with (Alexander, maybe. Henry maybe not), I'd tend to stand pat with Shipp, Hambrick and possibly Emmitt as a player-coach if he'd do it).

WR - Stand pat with our three top guys, but get a burner in free agency or the draft.

TE - Gotta get someone who can block (both run and pass). FJ would be on uncertain footing.

OL - Ask Rowen for an analysis and recommendation. What I'd want to know is: "Can he get the O-line squared away with the guys we've got? Or do we need to cut some guys and bring new guys in?"

DL - I'd want to sign one premier FA nose tackle and draft another. And possibly bring up a quality UT (by draft or free agency) to push Dockett.

LB - Hayes becomes our starting Mike guy. We'd need quality depth behind him (FA or draft pick). McKinnon probably would be history. We can live with the OLB's we've got, but always look to upgrade depth.

DB - Aggressively pursue a shut down corner opposite Macklin to enable Starks and Hill to excell in nickel and dime packages. We're OK at safety.

Special - Punter and Kicker OK. If we could bring in someone like Sproles to provide a homerun threat returning punts and kickoffs, we should do it.

And - in line with Dennis' draft philosophy - think opportunitistically with regard to the draft. If there's an athlete where we pick who's clearly superior to everyone else on our board, we've got to pick him even if there's a log-jam at his position.

Good post, Jeff.
I'd pretty much agree with this take with maybe only a couple of added comments.

1. I just don't see the need to burn a high draft pick on a QB. We need a vet backup not another "potential" rookie. Those high round picks can can be used so much more effectively in other areas. My first choice at the moment = Rod Johnson.

2. I think Croom should stay. Damian Anderson is probably gone. Both of these guys are the "type" that we need. Damian has shown explosiveness in the past, but I'm still not totally convinced he's the same player he was before his accident.
I do agree I don't think there may be quite the need for a frantic search to relace Shipp, Hambrick, etc. as some may be promoting.
Getting some decent play calling and planning from whomever is actually doing the OC job, and the proper coaching to get better play out of the OL, especially now, in run blocking could very likely improve the RB situation as much as anything.
This is where I might go for a high round draft pick. Not someone who will be expected to be a top notch productive player this year, but can be given the time to "develop".

3. The TE position is one of the more frustrating one's for me. For the life of me I fail to see why Green seemed so adament in trying to put a square peg in a round hole with Freddy Jones. I think he's gone, and was terribly misused.
Hopefully Eric Edwards pans out. I'm still fuming a little over why Steve Bush was such an early cut.
He WAS the most welll rounded TE on the roster before Green sent him packing, my feeling being before he ever even really saw what Bush could/couldn't do.
I'm not sure what's going to be available on the FA market here.

4. Not so sure we need to go for 2 nose tackles. If you take a 2nd one, then I'd expect it to be low round draft or UDFA and see if you can find a sleeper.

5. MLB....I think it definitely is now time for Hayes at MLB. I'm not impressed much with the practice squad right now, but Isaac Keyes may be the best there, and can provide some backup to Hayes.
I think Thompson is probably gone.
I still think LeVar Woods is a playmaker at OLB and I'd keep him not only for his LB play, but his special teams play. I don't see much need for focusing on this area now. Maybe look for "project" here in latter rounds of draft.

6. We still need a punt returner big time. This is another area I thought was mismanaged by the coaching staff this past season. Karl Williams is not a punt returner. He may be an OK kickoff returner, but he doesnt seem to have the explosive speed/quickness a good punt returner needs.
This is where I would have tried Damian or Croom more if I'd been coach. I think Williams is gone.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Good post, Jeff.
I'd pretty much agree with this take with maybe only a couple of added comments.

I agree with a lot of what Jeff said. Tango, here are my thoughts to your post...

1. I just don't see the need to burn a high draft pick on a QB. We need a vet backup not another "potential" rookie. Those high round picks can can be used so much more effectively in other areas. My first choice at the moment = Rod Johnson.

I think the vet backup experience has failed miserably in AZ. I'd rather have a potential rookier than a vet like Dave Brown, Jeff Blake and Shaun King. I'd rather have a could-be than a has-been or tried-to-be.

2. I think Croom should stay. Damian Anderson is probably gone. Both of these guys are the "type" that we need. Damian has shown explosiveness in the past, but I'm still not totally convinced he's the same player he was before his accident.
I do agree I don't think there may be quite the need for a frantic search to relace Shipp, Hambrick, etc. as some may be promoting.
Getting some decent play calling and planning from whomever is actually doing the OC job, and the proper coaching to get better play out of the OL, especially now, in run blocking could very likely improve the RB situation as much as anything.
This is where I might go for a high round draft pick. Not someone who will be expected to be a top notch productive player this year, but can be given the time to "develop".

Am I the only person who does not believe in Croom? I want Shipp back. Would love to see Emmitt with some sort of coaching job with the Cards. Hambrick and Shipp work okay with me. Henry would be okay, too. A really great RB in the draft works as well.

3. The TE position is one of the more frustrating one's for me. For the life of me I fail to see why Green seemed so adament in trying to put a square peg in a round hole with Freddy Jones. I think he's gone, and was terribly misused .... I'm not sure what's going to be available on the FA market here.

Agreed! Hated that Jones was used for blocking so much. Thought he dropped too many passes. Think he will pan out for some team, but his time with the Cards is over.

6. We still need a punt returner big time. This is another area I thought was mismanaged by the coaching staff this past season. Karl Williams is not a punt returner. He may be an OK kickoff returner, but he doesnt seem to have the explosive speed/quickness a good punt returner needs.
This is where I would have tried Damian or Croom more if I'd been coach. I think Williams is gone.

I agree here as well, except I don't think Croom is the guy. Can't really put my finger on it, but he makes me nervous.

It will be interesting to see what happens between now and the draft.

 

[Rats]

Now, I'm not trying to antagonize you, Rats. I seriously don't want to do that. I'm going to offer the same civil deal I offered to Tango, who of course ignored it. Why don't you, in clear terms, say what you felt Josh did right, and why you feel he is going to be a solid QB. I'll read what you have to say and respond with my respectful ideas. Deal?

I think Tango avoided it because it really serves no purpose. You and others see things one way and I and others see things another way with regards to the QB. I have felt that with what the offense had to work with at several key positions along the oline and with an uncertain and unspectacular running game, our early season was a failure because we had Q injured had a difficult schedule and a QB in Josh that was in a new system for the first time. The effort against ATL and New England were wasted because we could not score points. We then beat the Saints and lost on the road to San Francisco in what can only be described as a collapse. We come home and we beat Seattle behind a very good Defensive effort. What this tells me is that our young team and Qb went through ups and downs and could not sustain things that worked from week to week. Then we split on the road against Buf and Miami and win against the Giants at home. This goes on all season against the Rams with our best effort of the season to the next week against Tampa Bay where we won much like we did against Mia with dreadful offense. You seem to want to pin this up and down season on a Qb in his first season in a new offense. I am not willing to do that because I see the good things that he did and with a better supporting cast Josh is easily the best option for this coming season to get us to the playoffs. Drafting a QB would be silly since John will most likely develop into a good option at Qb and a vet that can actually play would be a huge benefit. So in retrospect it was an up and down year for a undermanned team with a young Qb in a new system. I really don't know why anyone would have expected more than what we got in DG first year here. I am not willing to throw the potential that Josh and John have under the bus and draft a Qb early or give the reigns of the team over to a Brad Johnson who is spent. That is how I see it.

 

[RonF]

Quan lifted a lot in the offseason and got bigger, visibly bigger. I have no problem with that, but with the knee I feel he was playing too heavy. Fitz is already 223 pounds. I am not calling him or Quan fat, just pointing out that neither one of them has a problem with strength their problem is speed and quickness and being a bit lighter is one way to help that.

Early in the year Fitz said he needed to get stronger, I just don't see that as being his weakness, would rather have him working with a speed coach(as Walt suggested Johnson do) than try to bulk up.

Maybe it's just watching David Boston "hulk up" that makes me say that, none of these guys are that dumb but IMHO they all need speed more than power.

Russ, is speed truly that important as I think about players such as Ward Hines who catches everything but doesn't have blazing speed. I think that Fitz can be a great possession player using his height and catching ability to dominate smaller deffensive players. There are a lot of great receivers and TEs playing today who don't have what you would call blazing speed but can catch the ball even when they are covered by another player.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Russ, is speed truly that important as I think about players such as Ward Hines who catches everything but doesn't have blazing speed. I think that Fitz can be a great possession player using his height and catching ability to dominate smaller deffensive players. There are a lot of great receivers and TEs playing today who don't have what you would call blazing speed but can catch the ball even when they are covered by another player.

speed is important to the success of the offense as a whole. speed makes safeties and corners back up. speed by one wr opens up the running lanes for the tight end and/or other wr to run routes unencumbered underneath. it also loosens up the defense for the running game.

is it important that q possesses the speed? no. is it important that ONE of our wrs possesses the speed? yes. the problem a lot of us see is that none of our "big 3" ('quan, fitz, and bj) seem to possess the requisite speed to stretch a defense. are our wrs good? hell yeah. but they might not combine the best traits to play together in the most effective manner possible.

 

[john h]

Russ, is speed truly that important as I think about players such as Ward Hines who catches everything but doesn't have blazing speed. I think that Fitz can be a great possession player using his height and catching ability to dominate smaller deffensive players. There are a lot of great receivers and TEs playing today who don't have what you would call blazing speed but can catch the ball even when they are covered by another player.

Until the rules on bumping recently changed the NFL was going more to big than to fast. Ideally both. Now with the new rule changes I have read the NFL will probably put more emphsis on speed than in the past. Some of the great receivers in NFL history were not speed guys but guys with good hands, who could run good routes, catch it over the middle. There are a lot of pure speed guys who never make it as a receiver. Speed is an important factor but just one. Michael Irving was not know for speed.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Until the rules on bumping recently changed the NFL was going more to big than to fast. Ideally both. Now with the new rule changes I have read the NFL will probably put more emphsis on speed than in the past. Some of the great receivers in NFL history were not speed guys but guys with good hands, who could run good routes, catch it over the middle. There are a lot of pure speed guys who never make it as a receiver. Speed is an important factor but just one. Michael Irving was not know for speed.

yeah, but that's missing the point. you CAN be a great wr w/o speed, but even a great wr w/o speed usually becomes great when paired with a speed wr (see alvin harper opposite irvin - 'cuz harper's speed opened up the underneath routes for irvin or henry ellard playing opposite flipper anderson). it's the only reason guys like ron brown and willie gault were able to stick in the league for so long - their speed opened the field for payton/dickerson. for an offense to maximize it's efficiency it should have a speed wr. the west coast offense isn't as reliant on the speed guy though - two good routerunning, larger wideouts with adequate speed can make that work (see john taylor and jerry rice, though it's arguable that rice didn't have good speed - he might not have had stopwatch speed, but i rarely remember him getting caught from behind).

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Good post, Jeff.
I'd pretty much agree with this take with maybe only a couple of added comments.

1. I just don't see the need to burn a high draft pick on a QB. We need a vet backup not another "potential" rookie. Those high round picks can can be used so much more effectively in other areas. My first choice at the moment = Rod Johnson.

Who the hell is Rod Johnson?

 

[Syracusecards]

I agree with a lot of what Jeff said. Tango, here are my thoughts to your post...



I think the vet backup experience has failed miserably in AZ. I'd rather have a potential rookier than a vet like Dave Brown, Jeff Blake and Shaun King. I'd rather have a could-be than a has-been or tried-to-be.



Am I the only person who does not believe in Croom?


I agree. Croom tends to dance behind the line instead of hitting the hole. Reminds me of Thomas Jones when he was here.

 

[Syracusecards]

Who the hell is Rod Johnson?

I think he's talking about Rob Johnson. I hope not, because he is one of the worst qb's in the league. Possibly ever.

 

[Heucrazy]

speed is important to the success of the offense as a whole. speed makes safeties and corners back up. speed by one wr opens up the running lanes for the tight end and/or other wr to run routes unencumbered underneath. it also loosens up the defense for the running game.

is it important that q possesses the speed? no. is it important that ONE of our wrs possesses the speed? yes. the problem a lot of us see is that none of our "big 3" ('quan, fitz, and bj) seem to possess the requisite speed to stretch a defense. are our wrs good? hell yeah. but they might not combine the best traits to play together in the most effective manner possible.

Yes but BJ does possess the speed that is needed to strecth the field. Defenses were just ignoring him, because they knew that with any pressure on Josh, he would just throw to Fitz or Boldin no matter how many DBs were draped all over them. Or Josh would throw to the check down and it would be a short gain anyway. I can't even begin to count the number of plays where you could see BJ had completely burned his guy and Josh didn't even look his way.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Am I the only person who does not believe in Croom?


I agree. Croom tends to dance behind the line instead of hitting the hole. Reminds me of Thomas Jones when he was here.

Croom, like Damien Anderson, John Navarre, and Calvin Pace before him, is just another example of Preston Parsons syndrome where undeserved praise is heaped on sub-par players due to preseason success.