15 thoughts - Broncos game

Gandhi

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No thoughts on only in-game offense this time. It just seems irrelevant.

1 – I guess there really was no point in waiting to the third quarter this time to be blown out. Might as well just rip the bandage right off.

2 – I have been preaching continuity as maybe the most important thing for a head coach and his staff, and I stand by it, but I also have to admit that now it is in fact fair to wonder if Wilks actually could be one-and-done. You could argue that it simply wouldn’t be worth the wait.

3 – If Wilks is indeed let go somewhere between now and the offseason, would anyone be surprised if Todd Bowles is brought in as a head coach? There has been multiple rumors that he is on the hot seat in New York, and both Michael Bidwill and Steve Keim were praising him all the time when he was in Arizona.

4 – It is said that adversity makes you stronger. I believe that this will make Rosen and the rest of the team stronger.

5 – Brandon Williams is probably worse as a kick returner than he is as a cornerback, and that’s saying something.

6 – Don’t be fooled by the Cards playing better on offense in the second half (the Broncos surely knew that they had already won the game), but don’t say it was only because Denver let Rosen and the others be successful either. This is the NFL. No player wants to give the opponent anything (the coaches, on the other hand, might call the game differently).

7 – I like Haason Reddick’s new role where he primarily is a pass rusher and blitzer that is moved around to create mismatches. I think he is good in that role and can obviously be even better. I also think it is kind of weird that not long ago we talked about him as a draft bust after he was demoted to playing only sparingly as a backup, and now all of a sudden he has played 100% of the defensive snaps for three games straight.

8 – There is definitely reasons for optimism for the future, not the least because of Rosen. To quote Garthshort […] I really believe that with a great draft and having a lot of money to spend in free agency, we should be MUCH better next year.” That turnaround could easily happen. Easily.

9 – I have wrote multiple times that I would like to see what Deone Bucannon could do at safety, but even if I try to put my small bias aside and look objectively at it, it annoys me that they didn’t try it in this game. I mean, he is obviously not a key contributor in the first place, and while Rudy Ford is a good to great special teams player, he is very new to playing on defense with the Cards. They need a spark, so why not see if Bucannon could give them that?

10 – After the last game there were posters wanting to trade Fitzgerald out of respect, and I guess there will be that again after this game. I have written my opinion in another thread, but I thought I would do it here as well. Fitzgerald could have rejected to sign several contract extension the last couple of years, or he could have simply retired. He has lived in Arizona for a very long time, and thus obviously has most of his life there. Exactly who would you be doing a favor by sending him away? Another point is that nobody should feel sorry for these players. They are doing what they want to do, and most of them are compensated very well to do it.

11 – Josh Rosen really throws a beautiful spiral. Have you watched it closely? It’s art.

12 – Dennis Gardeck has by far played the most special teams snaps of any player on the team while Zeke Turner has played second most along with Derrick Coleman. Turner is tied for the lead in the entire league for most special teams tackles, while Gardeck is tied for 26th (60 players on the list), though they obviously has a game more than the others. Three other great finds by Steve Keim and his scouts.

13 – I usually never criticizes the fans at the stadium, in part because I am never at the stadium myself, but on the other hand it’s not like I have the option, so now I am going to rant just a little bit. From my TV it looked like a lot of fans left before or right after halftime. If so, that is simply not good enough. I understand that it is an entertainment business, and that no one can be entertained right now, but the team most certainly needs you. The team and the fans works together. It is a symbiotic relationship where the two parts energizes and help each other. There is a reason why it is called a homefield advantage. Here in my country I am a huge fan of my local soccer team so I know about this. Now, I sort of get why some fans would sell their tickets, but this is about the fans that shows up.

14 – If the Cards are like 3-9, 2-10 or something like that late in the season, and thus are in contention for the first overall pick in the draft, I assure you they will still do everything in their power to win the last games. Not only because of their job security but also because they would have had so many frustrating and embarrassing experiences this season that they would do whatever they could to get wins. With the last five being against the Packers, the Lions, the Falcons, the Rams and the Seahawks you can’t rule out that some of those teams, for one reason or another, don’t have much to play for, and thus the Cards could win two or more games that us fans would deem irrelevant or even prefer to lose. Et voilà - that is how you get out of the #1 overall spot and down to like #4, #5 or #6.

15 - This thought is not limited to the game, but I think it is an interesting (yet disturbing) thought that with Bradford losing his job and now McCoy losing his job, the next logical in line, if things doesn’t change for the better, must inevitably be Wilks himself. I’m not in any way saying that he should have kept the other two in their positions but I am saying that now the gun points straight toward him.
 

az jam

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I'm a long time season ticket holder, I left at the end of the third quarter. The people sitting next to me left at half time. The score was 35 to 3. Sorry but there was no reason to sit there and watch the agony going on. There was nothing to cheer for. There was no entertainment. You are saying that regardless on how crappy the team does on the field, we should sit there and cheer??? Love your posts but that make no sense.
 

juza76

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I think people suggesting to trade Fitz wasnt for a lack of respect on him but it was because he doesnt deserve to play for this crap but fighting for the title
 

slanidrac16

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Ghandi, always enjoy your 15 post. As far as fan support I cannot blame fans for leaving early. Fans will support a subpar team as long as there is a vision of hope. I’m not talking about a single game but rather a long term vision. Halfway thru this game fans were seeing the same crap that they had seen all year. The mission of the team is at best blurry. It certainly sparked some kind of change. Be competitive and the fans will come back. That’s the least any fan can ask.
 

az jam

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I never sell my tickets. If I can't make a game I give them to family or friends that I know are Cardinal fans. However, there is no enjoyment on sitting for the entire game when they play so poorly. Its hard to just cheer for the punter.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Calling out the fans in the face of dreck is dumbest thing i ever read. A symbiotic relationship? The players and coaches put a putrid product on the field and still get paid millions of dollars afterwards. The fans, who earn FAR less in comparison, pay out their hard earned dollars to be entertained and get served a heaping pile of crap. I don’t blame them one bit for leaving. Who wants to sit there and be force fed more crap???

My family and another close family to ours have been season ticket holders since season one. We and they stay through every game. This past game the dude sitting next to my 76 year old father left in the first quarter in disgust. The family friends of ours left in disgust at halftime. Cheese, my parents and brother left before the end in disgust. And anyone has the gall to call them out? Get the F outta here with that nonsense.
 
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Gandhi

Gandhi

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I'm a long time season ticket holder, I left at the end of the third quarter. The people sitting next to me left at half time. The score was 35 to 3. Sorry but there was no reason to sit there and watch the agony going on. There was nothing to cheer for. There was no entertainment. You are saying that regardless on how crappy the team does on the field, we should sit there and cheer??? Love your posts but that make no sense.

No, not at all, AZ. That decision is entirely yours, as it is with every fan. I am not trying to determine what is right or wrong. I am just stating my opinion.

One story is that, in the winter and at an outside stadium (and it gets really cold here) I went to a game with my favorite team against a team ranked so much below mine that it would be like the Cardinals playing against a college team from outside the power Five conferences. My team got blown out to the point where it basically couldn’t get more embarrassing, yet I still stayed the whole game.

It is not the same, and it is not just to toot my own horn, but I am saying that my opinion did not come out of the blue.
 
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Gandhi

Gandhi

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I think people suggesting to trade Fitz wasnt for a lack of respect on him but it was because he doesnt deserve to play for this crap but fighting for the title

I have the same impression, Juza. That it was out of respect for him.
 
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Gandhi

Gandhi

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Ghandi, always enjoy your 15 post. As far as fan support I cannot blame fans for leaving early. Fans will support a subpar team as long as there is a vision of hope. I’m not talking about a single game but rather a long term vision. Halfway thru this game fans were seeing the same crap that they had seen all year. The mission of the team is at best blurry. It certainly sparked some kind of change. Be competitive and the fans will come back. That’s the least any fan can ask.

Thank you for the input, Slanidrac. I disagree with the premise that there is not any hope for this team in the longer view, but I do, however, completely agree with you that if they field a competitive team the fans will be there as well. I don’t doubt that for one second.
 
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Gandhi

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Get the F outta here with that nonsense.

If you have that power, Ouchie, then by all means ban me. If not, please accept the purpose of a message board. I am not forcing you or anyone else to neither read my posts nor agree with me, but I would like to not be called stupid for voicing an opinion.
 

MrYeahBut

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If you have that power, Ouchie, then by all means ban me. If not, please accept the purpose of a message board. I am not forcing you or anyone else to neither read my posts nor agree with me, but I would like to not be called stupid for voicing an opinion.

Gandhi, you are one of the most polite people I've ever read on the internet, thank you.

I stayed until the 2min warning basically because I had traveled just to see the game. Also, my wife is a lifelong Bronco fan and she has come to Cards games with me for 20+ years so I owed it to her out of respect. Painful experience for me, but what the heck, she loved it.

Go Cards!
 

azsouthendzone

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My 15 thoughts:

1. Wilks is in over his head.
2. Wilks is in over his head.
3. Wilks is in over his head
4. Wilks is in over his head
5. Wilks is in over his head
6. Wilks is in over his head
7. Wilks is in over his head
8. Wilks is in over his head
9. Wilks is in over his head
10. Wilks is in over his head
11. Wilks is in over his head
12. Wilks is in over his head
13. Wilks is in over his head
14. Wilks is in over his head
15. Wilks is in over his head.
 
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Gandhi

Gandhi

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Gandhi, you are one of the most polite people I've ever read on the internet, thank you.

I stayed until the 2min warning basically because I had traveled just to see the game. Also, my wife is a lifelong Bronco fan and she has come to Cards games with me for 20+ years so I owed it to her out of respect. Painful experience for me, but what the heck, she loved it.

Go Cards!

Haha, MYB, that sounds like somewhat of a struggle, but then again, your wife’s team had just lost four in a row, so it must have been a big relief, and, well, you survived. ;)
 
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Gandhi

Gandhi

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My 15 thoughts:

1. Wilks is in over his head.
2. Wilks is in over his head.
3. Wilks is in over his head
4. Wilks is in over his head
5. Wilks is in over his head
6. Wilks is in over his head
7. Wilks is in over his head
8. Wilks is in over his head
9. Wilks is in over his head
10. Wilks is in over his head
11. Wilks is in over his head
12. Wilks is in over his head
13. Wilks is in over his head
14. Wilks is in over his head
15. Wilks is in over his head.

You really think that, Southend? I mean, it’s an honest question because I am in doubt myself. I always prefer continuity in these cases, and in some ways this is no different, but I must admit that I think it is bit of a unique case in that it’s not just six loses but six embarrassing loses. I think we can all agree that even though the games versus the Bears and the Seahawks were close on the scoreboard, and that the Cards won in San Francisco, they were outplayed in those games. I am inclined to agree with you, and my point in the initial thread was that maybe it is simply not worth to wait for it to be better? Because I have no doubt that it will be, but if we are talking at the end of this season or maybe even into the next season, then it’s probably as simple as it would be much better for Michael Bidwill and Steve Keim to admit their mistake and start over with a new head coach.

Do you have any suggestion to a successor, Southend? I have actually thought about it, and so far I have come up with four names that I think could be of interest.

The first one is also my own favorite. Lincoln Riley led Oklahoma to the final four last season and again this season they are at the top half of the college rankings. I consider Kyle Shanahan as the best offensive play caller in the NFL, and I really believe that Riley is on that same level. He seems so innovative to me. The “problem” could be that Riley is at his first stint as a head coach at any level, and thus he might be deemed to inexperienced and would have to be surrounded by really good veteran coaches. Though, that solution doesn’t sound that bad to me. Riley just got a new contract, but he is not making a lot of money compared to other college coaches. I have no idea what Wilks is making.

The second one is the Vikings’ offensive coordinator John DeFillipo, and my main reasoning is that the Cards were considered heavily interested in him before hiring Wilks. My third is offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy from the Chiefs. He has only been in the job for one season (well, not even that yet), and he is not that young compared to the other three. However, Matt Nagy was also only their offensive coordinator for one season before he became the head coach of the Bears, and so far that looks to be going just fine. Andy Reid’s coaching tree is so fantastic. My last choice would be another promotion for Byron Leftwich.

Those are obviously only offensive guys, and there is also at least a handful of defensive guys I think is interesting, but the trend right now seems to be young offensive coaches.
 

NJCardFan

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No, not at all, AZ. That decision is entirely yours, as it is with every fan. I am not trying to determine what is right or wrong. I am just stating my opinion.

One story is that, in the winter and at an outside stadium (and it gets really cold here) I went to a game with my favorite team against a team ranked so much below mine that it would be like the Cardinals playing against a college team from outside the power Five conferences. My team got blown out to the point where it basically couldn’t get more embarrassing, yet I still stayed the whole game.

It is not the same, and it is not just to toot my own horn, but I am saying that my opinion did not come out of the blue.
I'm going to give you an example of fan loyalty in the face of an abysmal team on the field:

I'm sure everyone has heard the oft repeated and blown out of proportion story about Eagles fans pelting Santa with snowballs. I'm not going to get into the actual and never reported reasons why this poor fella was dodging snowballs like he was filming a scene from the TV movie The Lottery. What I am going to point out is that this game was the final game of the season, a loss to the Vikings and the Eagles finished the season 2-12 and the previous week won in New Orleans and took themselves out of the OJ Simpson sweepstakes. The game was played after a night of heavy snow(hence the snowballs). It was an overcast and damp day, 28 degrees with a wind chill of 15 degrees. The stands at Franklin Field were never cleaned off so the stands were cold, slushy, and wet. In short, it was a cold, miserable day(which is why the person who was supposed to play Santa for the halftime parade was a no show) and the team tied for the worst record in the NFL and 2nd worst in all of football(Bills finished 1-12-1 in the AFL). The game, however, was a sell out and the crowd wasn't full of Vikings fans.

The moral is, football fandom is like a marriage. You're supposed to stick with your team through better or worse and those of us who have been Cardinal fans for decades understand what worse is. You go to the games even if it's to voice displeasure. But you never turn the stadium over to the opposing fans.
 

ReasonableMan

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Not to pile on here Ghandi, but I think the fans leaving and this looking like a Broncos home game on national television played a role in Bidwill’s (I doubt it was Wilks’) decision to start firing people. It was one of the more embarrassing things to happen to this franchise since moving.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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No, not at all, AZ. That decision is entirely yours, as it is with every fan. I am not trying to determine what is right or wrong. I am just stating my opinion.

One story is that, in the winter and at an outside stadium (and it gets really cold here) I went to a game with my favorite team against a team ranked so much below mine that it would be like the Cardinals playing against a college team from outside the power Five conferences. My team got blown out to the point where it basically couldn’t get more embarrassing, yet I still stayed the whole game.

It is not the same, and it is not just to toot my own horn, but I am saying that my opinion did not come out of the blue.
And was your team at the time 1-6 and showing historical ineptitude all season?
 

az jam

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I'm going to give you an example of fan loyalty in the face of an abysmal team on the field:

I'm sure everyone has heard the oft repeated and blown out of proportion story about Eagles fans pelting Santa with snowballs. I'm not going to get into the actual and never reported reasons why this poor fella was dodging snowballs like he was filming a scene from the TV movie The Lottery. What I am going to point out is that this game was the final game of the season, a loss to the Vikings and the Eagles finished the season 2-12 and the previous week won in New Orleans and took themselves out of the OJ Simpson sweepstakes. The game was played after a night of heavy snow(hence the snowballs). It was an overcast and damp day, 28 degrees with a wind chill of 15 degrees. The stands at Franklin Field were never cleaned off so the stands were cold, slushy, and wet. In short, it was a cold, miserable day(which is why the person who was supposed to play Santa for the halftime parade was a no show) and the team tied for the worst record in the NFL and 2nd worst in all of football(Bills finished 1-12-1 in the AFL). The game, however, was a sell out and the crowd wasn't full of Vikings fans.

The moral is, football fandom is like a marriage. You're supposed to stick with your team through better or worse and those of us who have been Cardinal fans for decades understand what worse is. You go to the games even if it's to voice displeasure. But you never turn the stadium over to the opposing fans.

Sorry, but you can't compare Eagle fans with Cards fans or in fact with any other fan base. Eagle fans are the most rabid in all sports. I would be afraid to wear an opponents jersey at an Eagle game.:D
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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If you have that power, Ouchie, then by all means ban me. If not, please accept the purpose of a message board. I am not forcing you or anyone else to neither read my posts nor agree with me, but I would like to not be called stupid for voicing an opinion.
Apologies for the “get the F outta here” comment.

But I didn’t call you stupid. I said calling out fans was stupid and I stand by that comment. I have always steadfastly stood behind the concept that a fan should feel free to denigrate the actions of a team they support as they spend money to do so and they are a business. But to denigrate a fellow fan or question their fandom or question the way they want to be a fan is imo stupid.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Not to pile on here Ghandi, but I think the fans leaving and this looking like a Broncos home game on national television played a role in Bidwill’s (I doubt it was Wilks’) decision to start firing people. It was one of the more embarrassing things to happen to this franchise since moving.
Amen. The sports landscape in AZ is so cushy it takes drastic steps to get change. The sportswriters don’t ask tough questions, the fans just turn their attention elsewhere (unlike the cold climates where your choices are remain at home or go to the game in areas like AZ and CA people can actually, you know, go enjoy their days outdoors instead of sitting and watching a dreadful product). So it takes a slap in the face of the owner to get things accomplished. Seeing your beloved swimming in the other teams colors accomplished that.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Sorry, but you can't compare Eagle fans with Cards fans or in fact with any other fan base. Eagle fans are the most rabid in all sports. I would be afraid to wear an opponents jersey at an Eagle game.:D
And they’ve grown up with generations of (a) family being fans and (b) good teams. Though the cards have been in az now for almost 3 decades that doesn’t span generations yet.
 

NJCardFan

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Sorry, but you can't compare Eagle fans with Cards fans or in fact with any other fan base. Eagle fans are the most rabid in all sports. I would be afraid to wear an opponents jersey at an Eagle game.:D
I used to do it all the time. In fact, when the Cards played at Philly in 2015, I was there wearing my Fitz jersey and Cardinals Santa hat. Nobody said a word.
 

NJCardFan

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And they’ve grown up with generations of (a) family being fans and (b) good teams. Though the cards have been in az now for almost 3 decades that doesn’t span generations yet.
Not true in the instance I gave. Eagles were bad for a while after their 1960 championship with an ownership that would make Bill Bidwill look good. It wasn't until Leonard Tose bought the team did they start to turn it around. Incidentally, it was Tose who first threatened to move the Eagles to Phoenix in 1984.
 

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