10 thoughts - Cards' coaching situation

Gandhi

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I have several thoughts about the Cards’ coaching situation, but instead of writing a little in many threads, I decided to write all of it in one post.

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1 – I think that Michael Bidwill is highly important in this topic. I think that he makes the decisions in this – not Keim.

2 – It is a paradox that I would not mind a new head coach, yet I am very happy about the rest of the coaching staff. I think they have good coaches all-around.

3 – Maybe it is just because it is what I dream of happening (great idea, @Ouchie-Z-Clown ), but when I saw the article that two teams had contacted Sean Payton, I wondered if one could be the Cards. Why? Well, for one, that Bidwill is mad and apparently have had a meeting with Kingsbury and Keim where they “discussed” various upgrades. In my mind that probably means: “he explained very clearly, loud, and in a teacher-student-ish way what he thought.”

I think he would go for a chance to hire Payton to try to upgrade the team. Many of you often say “same ol’” about the Cards, but no, Michael Bidwill is not like his dad. And no matter if Payton would be good or not, signing him would be a scoop.

… so, to continue, if they let go of Kingsbury during the season, I would expect them to pursue Payton heavily.

4 – If it did happen, that Payton was hired, I suppose he would get more personnel power than a head coach usually does. That would also mean that the general manager would be kind of a sidekick to Payton - like Mike Mayock to Jon Gruden. Or Brett Veach to Andy Reid. Or Nick Caserio to Bill Belichick. And others. So, maybe it would be one with limited seniority? Maybe someone who almost need the support? Maybe someone like Adrian Wilson?

5 – I agree that Vance Joseph has transformed the defense from bad to good and opportunistic, but the fact remain that he has not built a good run defense, and he has not been able to utilize the two last #1 picks. Both things are big problems. I am not as down on Joseph as some other posters, but I acknowledge that he could be upgraded. Vic Fangio and Wink Martindale would be my preferred candidates (Brian Flores as well, but he probably will not be coaching anywhere for a long time), but that seems to be the case for any NFL fan, so nothing surprising there.

6 – One way to try to upgrade could be to bring in an offensive coordinator. To relieve Kingsbury of some of his duties, so that he could focus more on working with the quarterbacks and doing head coach-stuff. He could still call plays, and thus give the offensive coordinator more of a supporting, advising role. Like Tom Clements would have had if he had not retired. Some ideas could be Jim Caldwell, Doug Pederson or David Culley, but that is mostly because I see an experienced capacity as the best way to go.

7 – I think it could be realistic that they wait for the Dolphins to select a head coach before they make any actions regarding Vance Joseph. Thus, I don’t think it tell us much of anything that nothing has happened yet. If they did do anything now that would completely destroy any hopes he might have of becoming their head coach.

8 – Why don’t teams have a specialty coach for the kicking game? It is such an important aspect of the game, and they have individual coaches for so many things, so why not optimize on that front as well? Marginal gains are key. Not that the kicking game has been much of a problem but bring in Jay Feely.

9 – Josh McCown is a big hotshot in coaching circles. Bringing him in (if he doesn’t get the Texans head coach job) as some sort of an offensive coach would be a little like castrating Kingsbury, but on the other hand, maybe slightly limiting Kingsbury is what Bidwill wants?

10 – I have long and often been singing the praise of Brentson Buckner, but isn’t he partly at fault for the defensive line’s inability to stop the run and limited pass rush? Yes, he is.
 

oaken1

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yeah, that DLine....scheme limits them somewhat.... but you gotta win your battles,...and our guys dont.

did you watch the niners defense?? Four man rush all day, and they won their battles... I think that is similar to what VJ is trying to do here, but he just aint got the horses.

thing is,...a good DC would recognize they aint got the horses, and change up the assignments up front. we had good success when we brought an extra guy but VJ refused to use that method until it was usually too late.

I supported the guy all season, the bottom line is the bottom line and we were top five scoring defense most of the season.
the thing is......so many things about our team suck,...are blah, meh... an attacking defense would be more exciting to watch and create more opportunities for turnovers.
maybe at the same time, it would convey the message to the offense that we are actually trying to win this game.


I wont be totally out if he stays.... but I kinda prefer he goes since he aint gonna change.
 

slanidrac16

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Sean Payton is NEVER coming here. With the cap space situation we are handcuffed with it would be impossible to trade draft picks for compensation to the Saints

Every effort has to be made to build a dynamic offense and it needs to be done now. All excuses need to be removed for Kingsbury and Kyler.

We need to add to the interior of the O-line and we need to add speed and yac to this offense. Unless this happens we will be sitting here next year looking for a new head coach and questioning the ceiling of Murray.
 
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Gandhi

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did you watch the niners defense?? Four man rush all day, and they won their battles... I think that is similar to what VJ is trying to do here, but he just aint got the horses.

Well, they have two studs, which makes the job easier for everyone else. The Cards’ defense was better when J. J. Watt was there. When he’s not, you must rely on scheming, which is Joseph’ department.

thing is,...a good DC would recognize they aint got the horses, and change up the assignments up front. we had good success when we brought an extra guy but VJ refused to use that method until it was usually too late.

I completely agree.

I supported the guy all season, the bottom line is the bottom line and we were top five scoring defense most of the season.
the thing is......so many things about our team suck,...are blah, meh... an attacking defense would be more exciting to watch and create more opportunities for turnovers.
maybe at the same time, it would convey the message to the offense that we are actually trying to win this game.


I wont be totally out if he stays.... but I kinda prefer he goes since he aint gonna change.

I don’t know, Oaken. I think that the bottom line can be deceiving. The defense was a lot better in the beginning of the season, which were where most of the stats-success comes from, and that is kind of my criticism: it is Joseph’s job to make the defense better throughout the season, and certainly not let them become worse. Yes, there were injuries, but all teams have injuries.

Would you agree that the most obvious thought is that the more video teams got on the Cards’ defense, the more they were able to exploit the mistakes, and that Joseph were not able to counter that?
 
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Gandhi

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Sean Payton is NEVER coming here. With the cap space situation we are handcuffed with it would be impossible to trade draft picks for compensation to the Saints

The salary cap doesn’t matter anymore. It is way too easy for teams to manipulate it – especially now that the cap goes up every year (and that will continue for many years due to the latest TV deal). But even if it did matter, coaches don’t count against the salary cap, so it would actually make it easier on the budget if they traded away high draft picks.

Every effort has to be made to build a dynamic offense and it needs to be done now. All excuses need to be removed for Kingsbury and Kyler.

We need to add to the interior of the O-line and we need to add speed and yac to this offense. Unless this happens we will be sitting here next year looking for a new head coach and questioning the ceiling of Murray.


I completely agree on it all, Slanidrac, and I am not saying that they should go after Payton now. I am saying that they should go after him if Kingsbury doesn’t produce this season, and personally, I think it will be a repeat of the end to this season.

Don’t you think that Payton would be ecstatic to work with a quarterback like Kyler Murray? I think he would. He tried to make Taysom Hill into a starting quarterback, and not to compare him to Murray, but Hill does have his running ability as a core part of his game. I think that Payton would see it as a great challenge to win with a quarterback with the characteristics of Murray. Further, Murray has a million time the potential that Hill have, and I suppose that every offensive coach in the sport would want to work with Murray. I think that Payton would see the Cardinals as a highly attractive option.
 

slanidrac16

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The salary cap doesn’t matter anymore. It is way too easy for teams to manipulate it – especially now that the cap goes up every year (and that will continue for many years due to the latest TV deal). But even if it did matter, coaches don’t count against the salary cap, so it would actually make it easier on the budget if they traded away high draft picks.




I completely agree on it all, Slanidrac, and I am not saying that they should go after Payton now. I am saying that they should go after him if Kingsbury doesn’t produce this season, and personally, I think it will be a repeat of the end to this season.

Don’t you think that Payton would be ecstatic to work with a quarterback like Kyler Murray? I think he would. He tried to make Taysom Hill into a starting quarterback, and not to compare him to Murray, but Hill does have his running ability as a core part of his game. I think that Payton would see it as a great challenge to win with a quarterback with the characteristics of Murray. Further, Murray has a million time the potential that Hill have, and I suppose that every offensive coach in the sport would want to work with Murray. I think that Payton would see the Cardinals as a highly attractive option.
I totally understand your point on Payton but I see it as more of a pipe dream.

Payton was certainly successful but let’s not forget he had this guy named Brees. I don’t know how much Payton had on personnel or contracts but that team is in total cap hell. Probably one of the reason he’s leaving. I doubt Bidwill would give him an open checkbook.

Keim is forced to fill gaps in his roster because he sucks in the draft room. However, free agents and trades are meant to put your team over the top and not just to make your team competitive.

As far as circumventing the cap , well Keim better REALLY work his magic this year. I laughed last year when he claimed “ all in” when signing Watt and Green. Where has his management of this team left us?
Salary cap in the lower half.
An offense which is supposed to be the cornerstone and identity of this team with Kyler and Kingsbury has holes in every room.
TE,
RB,
WR,
OLine.
Not to mention the fan base questioning our head coach and QB.

I think this team is an 11 win mirage and nowhere near a team ready to really compete for the Lombardi Trophy.

Having Payton would be great. However, Bidwill would never allow the structure of him working here to be implemented.
 
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Gandhi

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I totally understand your point on Payton but I see it as more of a pipe dream.

Payton was certainly successful but let’s not forget he had this guy named Brees.

I don’t know, Slanidrac. Couldn’t you say the same about how Bill Belichick had Tom Brady? Or how Andy Reid have Mahomes? I think that a head coach can be fantastic, but still need a good quarterback to show it.

Keim is forced to fill gaps in his roster because he sucks in the draft room. However, free agents and trades are meant to put your team over the top and not just to make your team competitive.

Yes, I fully agree. You cannot win consistently without drafting well. It must be the foundation of your team. Even the Rams – the team that rely the most on veteran additions – have two home grown players in Aaron Donald and Cooper Kupp as some of their biggest stars.

As far as circumventing the cap , well Keim better REALLY work his magic this year. I laughed last year when he claimed “ all in” when signing Watt and Green. Where has his management of this team left us?
Salary cap in the lower half.

To be fair, the Cardinals are slated to have one of the lowest amounts of dead money going into next year, and I do think that Keim should get credit for that. The problem, obviously, is when you don’t use the available cap space well enough, and that goes back to the topic about drafting well.

But still, the cap will go up about 26 million next seasons, so without doing anything, the Cards will be in okay cap shape (slightly below league average).

Having Payton would be great. However, Bidwill would never allow the structure of him working here to be implemented.

I don’t know. What structure are you pointing to?
 

slanidrac16

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I don’t know, Slanidrac. Couldn’t you say the same about how Bill Belichick had Tom Brady? Or how Andy Reid have Mahomes? I think that a head coach can be fantastic, but still need a good quarterback to show it.
Absolutely.
Yes, I fully agree. You cannot win consistently without drafting well. It must be the foundation of your team. Even the Rams – the team that rely the most on veteran additions – have two home grown players in Aaron Donald and Cooper Kupp as some of their biggest stars.
I heard someone say they had 30 players on their roster that are “home grown”.
To be fair, the Cardinals are slated to have one of the lowest amounts of dead money going into next year, and I do think that Keim should get credit for that. The problem, obviously, is when you don’t use the available cap space well enough, and that goes back to the topic about drafting well.

But still, the cap will go up about 26 million next seasons, so without doing anything, the Cards will be in okay cap shape (slightly below league average).
It will go up for every team. But when you sign a DT for 16 m a year that probably won’t play the whole season. When you trade for a Wr that will cost 18 m a year it matters especially after drafting 2 or 3 wr’s very high in the draft.
I don’t know. What structure are you pointing to?
Sean Payton ( I believe) had way more input on drafts, trades, and maybe even contracts. I doubt Keim could live with that arrangement and I highly doubt Bidwill dump Keim. BTW, love your posts.
 
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Gandhi

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It will go up for every team. But when you sign a DT for 16 m a year that probably won’t play the whole season. When you trade for a Wr that will cost 18 m a year it matters especially after drafting 2 or 3 wr’s very high in the draft.

I agree. It is very risky. I guess it is like swinging for the fences? J. J. Watt made a big difference when he was playing, so maybe it is simply Keim hoping for the best. If Watt could stay healthy, it might make a big difference. But I agree that it is too risky. If they did not screw up too many draft picks, they did not have to make those kinds of moves – or at the very least they wouldn’t be as depended on the moves being successful all the way. They would be icing on the cake.

Sean Payton ( I believe) had way more input on drafts, trades, and maybe even contracts. I doubt Keim could live with that arrangement and I highly doubt Bidwill dump Keim. BTW, love your posts.

Oh, I certainly agree that Keim would not accept taking a smaller role. My thinking was based on that Keim was out. Can he really survive another failed coach? I mean, even Rod Graves got fired in the end. But you are right that Bidwill wants to be a big part of the decision making, but I guess he would have that with a first-time general manager, like Adrian Wilson, and a head coach who are not truly a general manager. I don’t know. Don’t you think it could work?
 

slanidrac16

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I agree. It is very risky. I guess it is like swinging for the fences? J. J. Watt made a big difference when he was playing, so maybe it is simply Keim hoping for the best. If Watt could stay healthy, it might make a big difference. But I agree that it is too risky. If they did not screw up too many draft picks, they did not have to make those kinds of moves – or at the very least they wouldn’t be as depended on the moves being successful all the way. They would be icing on the cake.



Oh, I certainly agree that Keim would not accept taking a smaller role. My thinking was based on that Keim was out. Can he really survive another failed coach? I mean, even Rod Graves got fired in the end. But you are right that Bidwill wants to be a big part of the decision making, but I guess he would have that with a first-time general manager, like Adrian Wilson, and a head coach who are not truly a general manager. I don’t know. Don’t you think it could work?
I think a majority of us would believe Payton would have a huge positive impact here. If Payton was a “ free agent” it would have a chance of happening. But having to give up valuable draft choices puts the thought to bed. Jmho.
 
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Gandhi

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I think a majority of us would believe Payton would have a huge positive impact here. If Payton was a “ free agent” it would have a chance of happening. But having to give up valuable draft choices puts the thought to bed. Jmho.

You are probably right. What would you give up for him? I would have no problem giving at least #1 (possibly two) and more. I think that it would be worth it to take a big chance on him changing the franchise.
 

slanidrac16

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You are probably right. What would you give up for him? I would have no problem giving at least #1 (possibly two) and more. I think that it would be worth it to take a big chance on him changing the franchise.
If our cap was in good shape it might be worth it. But I don’t see how we could give up good cheaper talent via the draft with the shape we’re in.

Then again if Keim was still drafting we wouldn’t be giving up much anyway! Lol
 
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Gandhi

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If our cap was in good shape it might be worth it. But I don’t see how we could give up good cheaper talent via the draft with the shape we’re in.

Then again if Keim was still drafting we wouldn’t be giving up much anyway! Lol
The cap doesn’t matter. :) And you are right – Keim cannot use those first couple of picks well anyway. :D

Further, I think that Kyler Murray is the key to this teams’ success, and well, we have seen what Kingsbury can do. Now he gets at least a half season more to show that I am wrong, but right now I have much more belief that Payton can get the best out of Murray.
 

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