For you Contract Wizards - Hopkins & Conner

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Didn't they both sign new contracts for the start of 2022 season?

When can Cardinals release both, getting out of their contracts at the least cost and cap hit?

Do Cards have an option before they exercise their full contracts, and if so when or how soon?

I am just thinking ahead wondering how soon Cards might want to replace them via the draft or whatever.

 

[Harry]

Both expire after 2024 season. No practical way to cut them earlier.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Both expire after 2024 season. No practical way to cut them earlier.

Well that takes some wind out of my sail. Until there are major changes to this team, it seems like a total waste of talent and $$. That's a shame, but that's the Cardinals for you.

If I were a good draft prospect, and knew what the Cards represented, I would let them know not to bother drafting me. If you know much about the Cards currently and historically, you realize that it is a bum organization. And like my childhood friend's father used to say to us, "If you play with bums, you will look like a bum."

 

[Red on White]

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[slanidrac16]

Okay, so we will have Hopkins and Connors next year. Here is the problem.
Hopkins contract might not allow us to sign Hollywood. Moore and Dortch I think can come close to filling that void. We do need to sign a big Wr like a Juwan Johnson who won’t break the bank. Wesley can battle for that spot.
Conner is serviceable but we need to add a speedy back that can break a long run. Conner would be effective short yardage, change of pace late in the game back. Every decent team has a 1-2 punch. We don’t. Half the fans in the NFL couldn’t name our back up running back.
I think a competent head coach could utilize the personnel on this offense if we were to add a center, guard and running back.
Oh and Kyler can pull his head out of his video games and buy in to a new PROFESSIONAL offense.

 

[Chopper0080]

Okay, so we will have Hopkins and Connors next year. Here is the problem.
Hopkins contract might not allow us to sign Hollywood. Moore and Dortch I think can come close to filling that void. We do need to sign a big Wr like a Juwan Johnson who won’t break the bank. Wesley can battle for that spot.
Conner is serviceable but we need to add a speedy back that can break a long run. Conner would be effective short yardage, change of pace late in the game back. Every decent team has a 1-2 punch. We don’t. Half the fans in the NFL couldn’t name our back up running back.
I think a competent head coach could utilize the personnel on this offense if we were to add a center, guard and running back.
Oh and Kyler can pull his head out of his video games and buy in to a new PROFESSIONAL offense.

No one should care about extending Marquise Brown. Over-rated loser. Ravens unloaded him and are going to have two more wins at minimum without him. If you can get better than a 4th rounder, ship him. Should be a desperate market.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

No one should care about extending Marquise Brown. Over-rated loser. Ravens unloaded him and are going to have two more wins at minimum without him. If you can get better than a 4th rounder, ship him. Should be a desperate market.

Imagine giving up a cost controlled player for 5 years for a middling talent like Hollywood Brown? Only Keim.

 

[DVontel]

Imagine giving up a cost controlled player for 5 years for a middling talent like Hollywood Brown? Only Keim.

What Keim has done to the roster for pretty much his entire tenure

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[ASUCHRIS]

What Keim has done to the roster for pretty much his entire tenure

You must be registered for see images attach

He honestly plays like a child in Madden - loading up on physical freaks and skill position players but all candy and carbs, no fruits and veggies.

 

[Chopper0080]

Imagine giving up a cost controlled player for 5 years for a middling talent like Hollywood Brown? Only Keim.

It was a desperate move from a guy who was determined to add a WR regardless of the cost.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It was a desperate move from a guy who was determined to add a WR regardless of the cost.

Using desperate moves to cover fatal roster construction errors - the Steve Keim legacy.

 

[Harry]

It was a desperate move from a guy who was determined to add a WR regardless of the cost.

Keep in mind the receiver needed the Murray stamp of approval, since they gave Murray that big contract.

 

[Chopper0080]

Keep in mind the receiver needed the Murray stamp of approval, since they gave Murray that big contract.

So pathetic

 

[SoonerLou]

Keep in mind the receiver needed the Murray stamp of approval, since they gave Murray that big contract.

So pathetic

To be fair, we got Hollywood long before Kyler signed his contract. Dont know if that makes it better or worse

And it was Keim panicking from losing Hopkins for 6 weeks and more importantly from not securing a Kirk deal before he was a free agent.

Keim Time.

 

[WindCardinal]

To be fair, we got Hollywood long before Kyler signed his contract. Dont know if that makes it better or worse

And it was Keim panicking from losing Hopkins for 6 weeks and more importantly from not securing a Kirk deal before he was a free agent.

Keim Time.

Kirk got 18/year. I wouldn’t have signed him for more than 10

 

[kerouac9]

Both expire after 2024 season. No practical way to cut them earlier.

Fake news. Cutting or trading Hopkins saves $8M on next years cap.

Dunno about Conner.

The problem is there’s no way to replace them with equivalent talents without hurting the roster. You can force-feed Hollywood Brown but you’d still need a #2 and we’re already likely losing Robbie Anderson.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

What I was thinking when I posted the question of this thread was that I see next year as a lost year. I, if it were possible, would clean house of all high contracts even if it costs us a bit. Hopefully, though dreaming, we could get some draft picks for a couple of them, like Hopkins and Conner.

We have the perfect opportunity to get a stud WR in Quenton Johnston, who maybe a Calvin Johnson type. And even by trading up from our R2 pick getting a stud RB in Robinson. We would then have something to build around with KM. We then would have 2 years to build a better OL and D, and would even have some cap space maybe to build a team the right way.

I agree wholeheartedly with Hopkins feelings and know we are wasting him and all that money. Same could be said of Conner to a lesser degree.

But this is just my dream, and what do I know anyway.

 

[Harry]

Fake news. Cutting or trading Hopkins saves $8M on next years cap.

Dunno about Conner.

The problem is there’s no way to replace them with equivalent talents without hurting the roster. You can force-feed Hollywood Brown but you’d still need a #2 and we’re already likely losing Robbie Anderson.

Horse hockey! When a team trades a player they save the salary, this is where your $8 million comes from. Of course they have to acquire another receiver, so they don’t save the full $8 million. You need to better understand contracts. Signing bonuses are prorated over the length of the contract. His contract runs through 2024. The bonus is being prorated at $11 million per year and accelerates into the year traded. So if they traded him it would charge that $22 million against the cap in 2023. That’s where the term dead money comes from. They could still charge $11 million bonus into each year if they traded him after June 1. Obviously they couldn’t get picks to use in the 2023 draft. I don’t appreciate being called a fake based on wrong info, though that has become fashionable.

 

[kerouac9]

Horse hockey! When a team trades a player they save the salary, this is where your $8 million comes from. Of course they have to acquire another receiver, so they don’t save the full $8 million. You need to better understand contracts. Signing bonuses are prorated over the length of the contract. His contract runs through 2024. The bonus is being prorated at $11 million per year and accelerates into the year traded. So if they traded him it would charge that $22 million against the cap in 2023. That’s where the term dead money comes from. They could still charge $11 million bonus into each year if they traded him after June 1. Obviously they couldn’t get picks to use in the 2023 draft. I don’t appreciate being called a fake based on wrong info, though that has become fashionable.

If you don't want to be accused of posting fake info, don't post inaccurate information.

Hop has a $19.45 million salary in 2023 and a $11.3 million pro-rated signing bonus that is also applied to the 2023 cap. If he's cut or traded prior to June 1, the Cards save the $19.45 million cash charge they'd pay over the course of the 2023 season. but the $11.3 million pro-rated signing bonus for 2024 would be accelerated into the 2023 cap.

$19.45MM + $11.3MM = $30.75MM (Cap Hold if Kept)
$11.3MM + $11.3MM = $22.6MM (Cap Hold if Moved)

The difference between $30.75MM and $22.6MM is $8.15 million, WHICH IS THE CAP SAVINGS I'M TALKING ABOUT.

DeAndre Hopkins Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

DeAndre Hopkins contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

 

[kerouac9]

Cutting or trading Conner would create nearly $10 million in dead money but save only $225,000. He can't really be moved until after next year. #keimtime

James Conner Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

James Conner contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Kerrouac9 & Harry,

Thanks to both of you for your thoughts and insights regarding all things Cardinals. It's nice to have to argue the facts of an issue so as to help understand it from different angles. Only greater understanding can come from that for us less knowledgeable.

But let us remember to never take it personally. All posts are simply words extracted from the rantings of our individual ego minds, mostly twisted, incomplete, and often misconstrued. In reality we are all of the same consciousness, just temporarily experiencing life from the perspective of our individual finite minds.

 

[swagron]

Imagine giving up a cost controlled player for 5 years for a middling talent like Hollywood Brown? Only Keim.

That was a move to appease KM, no?

 

[Harry]

I’m f you don't want to be accused of posting fake info, don't post inaccurate information.

Hop has a $19.45 million salary in 2023 and a $11.3 million pro-rated signing bonus that is also applied to the 2023 cap. If he's cut or traded prior to June 1, the Cards save the $19.45 million cash charge they'd pay over the course of the 2023 season. but the $11.3 million pro-rated signing bonus for 2024 would be accelerated into the 2023 cap.

$19.45MM + $11.3MM = $30.75MM (Cap Hold if Kept)
$11.3MM + $11.3MM = $22.6MM (Cap Hold if Moved)

The difference between $30.75MM and $22.6MM is $8.15 million, WHICH IS THE CAP SAVINGS I'M TALKING ABOUT.

DeAndre Hopkins Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

DeAndre Hopkins contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

You‘re clearly not just talking cap. $30 mil is what they’d pay him in 2023 if they kept him. $22 mil is what you’d get in dead money but only if you trade him after 6/1/2023, so you’re plan doesn’t get 2023 draft picks. Move him before 6/1, when the market is best, you get a $14 mil direct cap hit. Of course you’re ignoring someone has to be paid to play #1 receiver. Since you’ve acquired no picks are you drafting a #1 in hopes you can trade Hopkins or are you signing a free agent. I assume you’re not using AJ in that spot. So whatever that person’s salary and first year prorated bonus is offsets your $8 mil. You might end up paying more than $8 mil. Look at the website you‘re referring people to but look at 2023 before 6/1.

 

[Sparky16]

It was a desperate move from a guy who was determined to add a WR regardless of the cost.

Cards could have had that freak Christian Watson on a rookie deal instead of the midgets buddy who has netted 4 wins total this year (they aint winning again)

 

[kerouac9]

You‘re clearly not just talking cap. $30 mil is what they’d pay him in 2023 if they kept him. $22 mil is what you’d get in dead money but only if you trade him after 6/1/2023, so you’re plan doesn’t get 2023 draft picks. Move him before 6/1, when the market is best, you get a $14 mil direct cap hit. Of course you’re ignoring someone has to be paid to play #1 receiver. Since you’ve acquired no picks are you drafting a #1 in hopes you can trade Hopkins or are you signing a free agent. I assume you’re not using AJ in that spot. So whatever that person’s salary and first year prorated bonus is offsets your $8 mil. You might end up paying more than $8 mil. Look at the website you‘re referring people to but look at 2023 before 6/1.

Turn your phone sideways and you can see more information.

I'm not just talking cap. I'm talking cap and cash. I use those terms specifically in my post so that you can differentiate them.

The Cards won't pay DHop $30 million in 2023 no matter what. That's his Cap Number (Base Salary + Prorated Bonus). If DHop is on the roster for Week 1, he'll be guaranteed his full $19.45 million 2023 salary. The balance is the pro-rated amount of his original bonus + the option and roster bonuses that have already been paid but not accounted for under the cap.

If you cut Hop before 6/1 or trade him at anytime in 2023, you get hit with $22.6 million against the cap. I have no idea where you're getting a $14 million dead cap charge from.

And I'm setting aside replacing DHop's spot in this conversation because it wasn't germane to the fake news you were spreading.

What would happen is that you'd slot Hollywood into the #1 receiving role where he was very productive to start 2023 (and would allow you to pay him $15-24 million per year on an extension) and you sign Jakobi Meyers (NE), D.J. Chark (DET), or Parris Campbell (IND) to play opposite him. Use a mid-round draft pick on another big-bodied WR and let Rondale Moore compete with Greg Dortch for the slot role.