15 thoughts - draft

[Chopper0080]

I don’t think #1 is quite true to that extreme just because Cards don’t have a financial obligation to Minshew or JB yet like Seahawks did with Flynn at the time not to mention Pete Carroll as incumbent coach who helped decide on Flynn.

I would argue that based on his draft class, Monti feels like he needs to win games. The QB who shows they offer the best chance to do so will play IMO. That might seem obvious but I think it is true.

 

[oaken1]

I don’t agree with that, Slanidrac. I think that to compete you must find rookies that you can rely on early, simply because other teams do that. I think that rookies have become very, very important, and drafting for the year after is a bad strategy. That’s also why I don’t agree with people arguing that you cannot evaluate a draft class until three years after. That’s not to say that players cannot get better, of course, but I do think you can evaluate it after one year (and right after the draft, but that is only based on your evaluations of the players leading up to the draft).

It isnt so much a strategy as a concept..
no player is ever drafted for their rookie season.

That doesnt mean that you dont expect some rookies to contribute,..and in meaningful snaps for the first couple guys.

what it means, is you expect the rookie season to be as bad as the player will ever be for you, because you expect him to continually improve over the first few years.
This is even more true with drafts like this one where we scored with several younger players... if stats are equal(ish)..you always want to draft the younger guy because he has more room for natural physical improvement.
you see big benefits in guys like Proctor.. he is still very young...but its obvious by the tape that he is strong... so that should only improve..

same for Virgil.. he is very strong for such a wiry guy..so as he develops we should continue to see him slipping DB's and getting YAC...it may drop a bit as a rook because the competition is stronger.. but he is young.

anyway, thats the point... you expect a guy to be superior in year three to what he is as a rookie

 

[oaken1]

I disagree with you on your comment: "With Brissett, I had absolutely zero hope." Being a season ticket holder I was at every game last year and it was so depressing watching the offense under Kyler. Once Brissett started the entire offense picked up and the passing game was fun to watch. Michael Wilson was finally used and became actually an excellent receiver and McBride started scoring TDs. Unfortunately the defense was terrible and the the offense lost most of the offensive line to injures along with all the backs and they kept losing games.
But Brissett hung in there constanly getting hit which Kyler could never handle. I'm not saying that Brissett is the long term answer and I am glad that they got a young QB like Beck to develop. I just feel with an improved offensive line and having Love at RB and a solid backups in Connors and Algiers that the Cardinals will be a better team. I just would like to see how the team does with Brissett running this offense. Additionally, we should give not rush Beck as that can ruin a young qb.
Just my two cents!

I tend to agree on Brissett.. he played well...and he earned the job as well as a bump in pay.

But I think he is going to fall into the mid thirties journeyman QB trap...and get screwed this year.
Teams are always looking towards the future unless they are set at a position...and a 33 year old career backup does not make you "set" at QB...so he is going to lose his job because of his age and resume...without regard to what he did on the field.
its tough. it sucks. it aint fair.
But thats what will happen.

The team has to know if Beck is the guy before next years draft...and 4 or 5 starts does not answer that question.
They need time for the league to get tape on Beck, and adjust the defenses they show us to account for his play style... then we need a few weeks to see how Beck adjusts to the changing defenses.

I think they need at least 8 games,.. but more likely 10 to see if Beck can be the guy. so he will either win it in camp...or they face mid season drama when they bench a starting QB thats putting up decent stats..

if they go that route if Brissett has been playing well, they likely shop him before the deadline..move him by week 8..

because with Jacoby making a stand for starter money...they bench him for Beck..there is going to be bad blood in the locker room.

if it were my decision...so long as Beck is not sinking...I make the decision in the pre season...either trade Jacoby or release him soon enough to catch on with another team.
Go into the season with Uncle Rico backing up the rookie.

 

[oaken1]

I hope Beck starts from day one and plays all 17 games. Do I think he’s going to lead the Cards to the playoffs, probably not. But we also know that JB isn’t going to take them there either and the Cards might as well find out what they have in Beck.

even if Brissett were to lead us to the playoffs,,,maybe even a WC win..
what then??
What future do we have with a QB that will be 34? is he going to play into his forties??
are we content to just get a couple decent years,...then go back to the cellar to ride the QB carousel?

My thought is, we are better off with a guy under 30 even if he needs to season a bit.

But ya never know.. guys play to older ages these days... just not usually guys who takes the hits like JB was taking last season.

 

[Gandhi]

IF its a case of just starting the young guy no matter what -- you really run the risk of losing most of your veteran players who have things to play for -- incentives, their next contract, etc.

Well, of course, if either Minshew or Brissett clearly outplays Beck in camp, they should start. No doubt. But if all three are equal, veteran players can surely understand and accept that the coaches try to protect the organization long-term by playing the youngest.

Anyone can figure out that if they wanted to tank, they wouldn’t not have spent a pretty high draft pick on a quarterback, so if they do play Beck – no matter how bad he might be – no veteran in their right mind can question the intentions.

 

[Gandhi]

But I think he is going to fall into the mid thirties journeyman QB trap...and get screwed this year.
Teams are always looking towards the future unless they are set at a position...and a 33 year old career backup does not make you "set" at QB...so he is going to lose his job because of his age and resume...without regard to what he did on the field.
its tough. it sucks. it aint fair.
But thats what will happen.

Why is it not fair? I mean, I understand that it’s tough, but the NFL is about results, and if Beck (or any other young player) gives you equal chance of winning this season, but a better chance for the future, then I think it makes a lot of sense to start him. I don’t think that’s unfair. You could argue that the coaches would be unfair to the organization not to try to protect them long-term. Again, of course only if the QB’s gives equal chances of winning.

I think that the scenario you lay out in the rest of the post is fair and what makes sense for the organization. It is what should happen.

 

[oaken1]

Why is it not fair? I mean, I understand that it’s tough, but the NFL is about results, and if Beck (or any other young player) gives you equal chance of winning this season, but a better chance for the future, then I think it makes a lot of sense to start him. I don’t think that’s unfair. You could argue that the coaches would be unfair to the organization not to try to protect them long-term. Again, of course only if the QB’s gives equal chances of winning.

I think that the scenario you lay out in the rest of the post is fair and what makes sense for the organization. It is what should happen.

Agree...
I cried unfair just to appease the abundant whiners and bleeding hearts we have on the board.

You and I know it's just life. JB knows it's a tough business. That's why he tried to leverage his position into more money.

 

[Gandhi]

Agree...
I cried unfair just to appease the abundant whiners and bleeding hearts we have on the board.

You and I know it's just life. JB knows it's a tough business. That's why he tried to leverage his position into more money.

Got it. We are on the same page!

 

[some dumb guy]

I cried unfair just to appease the abundant whiners and bleeding hearts we have on the board.

Hmmm, I don't feel very appeased, anyone else feeling appeased? LOL

 

[DVontel]

A rookie QB & rookie RB starting Week 1 sounds scary

 

[oaken1]

A rookie QB & rookie RB starting Week 1 sounds scary

and a rookie OG... it sounds like a risk certainly. a whole lot of inexperience in a very small patch of grass.

but....a decent RB is pretty much plug & Play in the NFL...basically the only position that is.
Honestly, the rookie OG....next to a substandard OT...worries me more than the rookie RB...except when said rookie RB is assigned to chip the edge on that side

 

[slanidrac16]

and a rookie OG... it sounds like a risk certainly. a whole lot of inexperience in a very small patch of grass.

but....a decent RB is pretty much plug & Play in the NFL...basically the only position that is.
Honestly, the rookie OG....next to a substandard OT...worries me more than the rookie RB...except when said rookie RB is assigned to chip the edge on that side

I’m more worried about the different offensive philosophy under LaFleur and how that changes our o-line scheme.

 

[oaken1]

I’m more worried about the different offensive philosophy under LaFleur and how that changes our o-line scheme.

true... but none of that affects the rookies at all.
it was always going to be new to them

 

[FB94]

I’m more worried about the different offensive philosophy under LaFleur and how that changes our o-line scheme.

Has to be better than last year right?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, I can only remember two games in the second half of the season, and both were against the horrible NFC South.


Absolutely. I have seen quite a few that already want Cards to lose to get a high draft pick next year. That is wild.

Raises hand

I’ve always been willing to undergo short-term pain for longer term success.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

and a rookie OG... it sounds like a risk certainly. a whole lot of inexperience in a very small patch of grass.

but....a decent RB is pretty much plug & Play in the NFL...basically the only position that is.
Honestly, the rookie OG....next to a substandard OT...worries me more than the rookie RB...except when said rookie RB is assigned to chip the edge on that side

With a rookie head coach. Fun!!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Raises hand

I’ve always been willing to undergo short-term pain for longer term success.

Trade everyone and go the Sam Presti route

 

[Goldfield]

I would argue that based on his draft class, Monti feels like he needs to win games. The QB who shows they offer the best chance to do so will play IMO. That might seem obvious but I think it is true.

As it should be

 

[BulldogCard]

I thought Beck's throwing showed some promise.

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[Gandhi]

Raises hand

I’ve always been willing to undergo short-term pain for longer term success.

I actually also believe in that, Ouchie. Sometimes you have to lose to win. It’s just too soon for me. If they are suddenly 2-12 or something like that, I am going to hope for a better draft pick, but not already now. We don’t even know who is available next offseason.

 

[some dumb guy]

I actually also believe in that, Ouchie. Sometimes you have to lose to win. It’s just too soon for me. If they are suddenly 2-12 or something like that, I am going to hope for a better draft pick, but not already now. We don’t even know who is available next offseason.

Sir, I have the highest respect for your posts and thank you for your hard work...
But, there is nothing "sudden" about being 2-12... LOL

 

[Gandhi]

Sir, I have the highest respect for your posts and thank you for your hard work...
But, there is nothing "sudden" about being 2-12... LOL

That is obviously very true. My point was that if they are horrible anyway, then I would like as high a draft pick as possible, but that is certainly not relevant now.

 

[Garthshort]

#3-Reference Wilkinson. Since, Atlanta had a great running game, last season, I assume he can run block. If he struggles in pass pro, there is always Tip Reiman to help. IMO.

 

[Gandhi]

#3-Reference Wilkinson. Since, Atlanta had a great running game, last season, I assume he can run block. If he struggles in pass pro, there is always Tip Reiman to help. IMO.

Run blocking is definitely his strength, Garth. By the way, I think it is interesting that they have signed several players who started for Atlanta last season. Both Allgeier and Wilkinson were used a lot for them last season. Their offensive coordinator was Zac Robinson who is heavily influenced by Sean McVay, so I think it tells us a bit about what LaFleur wants to do, which is interesting because McVay’s offense last season was a little different from the one Kyle Shanahan and McVay ran for many years. Like Robinson, LaFleur is obviously a disciple of those two.

I personally don’t think Wilkinson had started for Shanahan and McVay a couple of years back, but now I think that right tackle was never truly been a consideration early in the draft.

 

[Goldfield]

Run blocking is definitely his strength, Garth. By the way, I think it is interesting that they have signed several players who started for Atlanta last season. Both Allgeier and Wilkinson were used a lot for them last season. Their offensive coordinator was Zac Robinson who is heavily influenced by Sean McVay, so I think it tells us a bit about what LaFleur wants to do, which is interesting because McVay’s offense last season was a little different from the one Kyle Shanahan and McVay ran for many years. Like Robinson, LaFleur is obviously a disciple of those two.

I personally don’t think Wilkinson had started for Shanahan and McVay a couple of years back, but now I think that right tackle was never truly been a consideration early in the draft.

I like how you connect the dots. Super interesting thank you