OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[BritCard]

Kyler's drops are so deep that on this 3rd and 18 his back foot is a full 10 yards behind the LOS. The pass is complete 3 yards behind the LOS and Benson doesn't even get back to the line.

There are other options.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[BritCard]

So why are there more great QBs than there are TEs atm?

Usage. McBride is consistent because Kyler loves to throw those routes. You put Sam LaPorta or Dalton Kincaid in this system and they will put up similar numbers. Numbers they don't get close to in their schemes.

Plus it's not a level comparison. I'd rather have a Ferrari than the best Tesla.

 

[schutd]

I'd be disappointed to lose Trey for sure, but that would soon dissipate when you see an offense with an actual quality QB.

I love Burrow, but 3X having season ending injuries is enough to scare me off sending our biggest talent away to rid ourselves of KM. I'd be OK paying to offload him with picks. But not our #1 offensive skill player.

 

[DVontel]

Usage. McBride is consistent

Not because McBride is fantastic himself?

You put Sam LaPorta or Dalton Kincaid in this system and they will put up similar numbers. Numbers they don't get close to in their schemes.

Based off of vibes? You could maybe sell someone on LaPorta, but Kincaid is hilarious. Buffalo’s WRs are pedestrian & Kincaid still doesn’t get many targets because he’s just not that good.

Plus it's not a level comparison. I'd rather have a Ferrari than the best Tesla.

I’d rather have a great QB & great TE together.

 

[DVontel]

I love Burrow, but 3X having season ending injuries is enough to scare me off sending our biggest talent away to rid ourselves of KM. I'd be OK paying to offload him with picks. But not our #1 offensive skill player.

Not even just our #1 offensive skill player, but our best player overall. Would be a very dumb thing to do.

 

[DVontel]

Also, these great QBs still need great players to thrive.

Lamar has Derrick Henry.
Allen has James Cook & a fantastic OLine.

Mahomes hasn’t been peak Mahomes because Rice is a jackass & Kelce is over the hill.

 

[BritCard]

Not because McBride is fantastic himself?

McBride is great himself, and also usage.

I’d rather have a great QB & great TE together.

But we don't have that, and given a choice between a mediocre QB and a great TE, and a great QB and a mediocre TE, I'll take the later. Burrow got 882 yards out of Njoku, who is the definition of mediocre.

Plus Burrow would fix Marv.

 

[DVontel]

McBride is great himself, and also usage.

There’s a reason he gets that much usage, dude. And it’s not just because of Kyler loves him. Stop slighting McBride to fit your agenda.

Burrow got 882 yards out of Njoku

This is interesting considering Burrow & Njoku never played football together.

Plus Burrow would fix Marv.

Marv needs to fix himself before someone else does.

 

[kerouac9]

There’s a reason he gets that much usage, dude. And it’s not just because of Kyler loves him. Stop slighting McBride to fit your agenda.

It can be both. One of the things we talked about early in the preseason was it might be hard for McBride to get that volume of Marv progressed as expected. He hasn’t yet, and McBride is getting nine targets a game.

 

[cardncubfan]

Isn’t it only 4?

We lost by 3 against Seattle & by 1 against the Niners. So we needed 4 more in one game & 2 more in the other.

 

[Adrian]

Yahoo Sports: News, Scores, Video, Fantasy Games, Schedules & More - Yahoo Sports

Sports News, Scores, Fantasy Games

sports.yahoo.com

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

yeah he and I have been sparring since 2002 if you can believe it man. But anyway...

So like a good tactician, you're drawing me out so the flanks my argument are exposed, well done! haha

So principally, I would point to last year's 1st game against the Rams, where in my heart of hearts I believe on that day K1 was the best QB on the planet. The game that got his kit in the HOF.

Then I'd offer 2024's games vs. MIA, NYJ and SF where is his passer rating was 116+. All bad teams though, I understand.

Finally I'd mention the first 58 minutes of the 2024 game vs. MIN, where there weren't a lot of deep shots, but on the road he and McBride (and DP too I guess) were carving up the MIN defense pretty good. The MIN defense overwhelmed him/us in the last two minutes of course.

Georgia I'll leave it right there to get your thoughts, but let me add I understand that for many, this in not nearly enough to continue to stay on the K1 bandwagon. That many feel Kyler is way to inconsistent, and even worse, that in clutch in 2024, he was terrible (which, unfortunately is true, but I hope he can fix that).

lmao what did you guys get into before Kyler Murray??

I respect your commitment but I’d say almost any QB on any roster can roast a defense given time/facing a bad defense. The rams had no weapons that game and an offense that looked very similar to ours that first game Murray layed up on them. Murray is good enough to win against bad teams like Miami, bears, jets etc.

I want us to be better and I’m just not convinced I see it in his game to bring us to a playoff level - so like you said there has not been enough these past couple years to deserve a pass and an 8th chance in my point of view and on the bandwagon.

we do face the titans next week though and I’m sure Murray will have a lights out game against a terrible team and the majority of this board will swing back on your side praising his glories. Such is the way of most nfl fans

 

[IAcards]

This is a video I found pretty damned interesting. Kurt Warner does a long breakdown of what he saw as issues on many plays from Thursday night.

He mentions that Kyler doesn't get good reads because his read player on defense isn't being forced to move on multiple plays, slow developing plays, lack of hot routes and happy feet. That's on the receivers, play concept, and of course Kyler himself. Makes me think we may jettison petzing or more likely the wr coach before Murray gets "one last season" (is there an echo here?) to get right.

This video makes me wish Warner was open to a coaching or consulting role with the team. But I'm sure he.doesn't want to pull NFL coach style hours.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

Yahoo Sports: News, Scores, Video, Fantasy Games, Schedules & More - Yahoo Sports

Sports News, Scores, Fantasy Games

sports.yahoo.com

I agreed with everything in the article up until the drew petzing part- he’s definitely a major factor in this floundering offense and needs to pack his bags with Murray

 

[kerouac9]

I agreed with everything in the article up until the drew petzing part- he’s definitely a major factor in this floundering offense and needs to pack his bags with Murray

Probably written by AI

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Probably written by AI

bro... got my new customized cardinals jersey - took 4 weeks - wife tried to talk me out of it - said i didn't know how the season would go but i knew

 

[Chopper0080]

This is a video I found pretty damned interesting. Kurt Warner does a long breakdown of what he saw as issues on many plays from Thursday night.

He mentions that Kyler doesn't get good reads because his read player on defense isn't being forced to move on multiple plays, slow developing plays, lack of hot routes and happy feet. That's on the receivers, play concept, and of course Kyler himself. Makes me think we may jettison petzing or more likely the wr coach before Murray gets "one last season" (is there an echo here?) to get right.

This video makes me wish Warner was open to a coaching or consulting role with the team. But I'm sure he.doesn't want to pull NFL coach style hours.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

This highlights the issues with the coaching staff on the offense. There are details that just aren’t known of being taught.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

bro... got my new customized cardinals jersey - took 4 weeks - wife tried to talk me out of it - said i didn't know how the season would go but i knew

Picture so we can see it

Thanks

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Kyler, a 2nd, & Wilson for Burrow sounds much better. Sure, he’s not a QB, but why the hell would we give up a game breaker & the best player on our entire team? We would want Burrow to continue to have top weapons, not get rid of them.
Burrow also has had 3 season-ending injuries in just 6 seasons.

Of course it sounds better, but why would Cinci do that? His injury history is obviously a concern but he's young and already great. What's a better alternative?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Cincy needs defense so throw Budda in there too.

Ha, you know I'm on board.

 

[Redsz]

Can any of the film junkies break down how the Cardinals managed to score 14 points in 4th? What changed? No huddle? More shotgun? No dink and dunk?

 

[DVontel]

Of course it sounds better, but why would Cinci do that? His injury history is obviously a concern but he's young and already great. What's a better alternative?

I didn’t start this topic, man. I was just going along with the hypothetical that’s clearly not going to happen.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Can any of the film junkies break down how the Cardinals managed to score 14 points in 4th? What changed? No huddle? More shotgun? No dink and dunk?

kyler turned angry instead of pouty- angry walk - angry demeanor- angry throws - it's happened before but it's always too late

 

[PDXChris]

Interesting take. Basically, Kyler can win, just not with this Cardinals team. We'll probably find out sooner than later if he's right. Swipe to hear the full take.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[WisconsinCard]

Of course I have BritCard.

But what I said in my original post is that I honestly think right now there's too much dysfunction around our QB1 to objectively evaluate his performance.

I'm saying there's a correlation between a passer's performance and:

1. A team's WR1 performance
2. A team's ability to run the ball
3. A team's ability to generate YAC
4. A WR corps' ability to stretch the field
5. A team's ability to pass-block.
6. A team's ability to scheme an effective passing game

You say were very good at #5. Eh.

I just watched every pass play from the SEA game again. The pass protection was not good. It wasn't terrible, but SEA consistently collapsed the pocket with just four, and harried K1 most of the night.

Now, SEA is a very good, maybe great, defense. And, our pass blocking was pretty good vs. CAR I thought, and not bad vs. SF. I agree our line is better at that phase of the game. But it's still nothing to write home about. vs. NO for example, there were way too many free runners at Murray.

And then of course, bad run game, bad WR1, questionable OC, no deep threat, no YAC generally (Dortch did have some on the two TD drives vs. SEA surprisingly).

So no. No I'm not ready to give up on Murray because of ADoT or air yards, or YPC.

I'm not giving up on him until we upgrade the Oline and WR room at least a little (and maybe the OC). Or at least until those two groups start playing better than they are now.

I disagreed with this because I'm pretty sure you were out on him at the end of last season.