OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[Stout]

The question isn’t who he is. The question rightfully is who does he have around him on BOTH sides of the ball. He hasn’t had a WR1 since DHop & DHop was washed by 2022. And he’s NEVER had a legit defense in his entire career unless you want to include the first 7 games of 2021, when he was 7-0 & a MVP candidate.

A good question, who he is surrounded with. Who is his offseason QB guru? Who is guiding that extra work we all want him to take on? You know, when he's supposedly doing all he can to improve?

 

[football karma]

Who is his offseason QB guru?

I think this concept is really, really overrated.

this coaching staff is super obsessed with fundamentals. If Kyler has fundamentals he needs to work on, I feel confident the staff knows it and have made it clear to him. He doesnt need Jordan Palmer in the offseason to work on those things.
I dont know if Kyler will raise him game another notch or not -- but I really doubt it will be because of who he did or didn't use in the offseason.

 

[Shane]

I think this concept is really, really overrated.

this coaching staff is super obsessed with fundamentals. If Kyler has fundamentals he needs to work on, I feel confident the staff knows it and have made it clear to him. He doesnt need Jordan Palmer in the offseason to work on those things.
I dont know if Kyler will raise him game another notch or not -- but I really doubt it will be because of who he did or didn't use in the offseason.

I can’t say I agree with your take. Kyler has clearly hit a plateau it seems. He’s not getting better that’s for damn sure if anything he’s regressed IMO. Coaching matters. How you respond to it matters. Who’s voice you harken back to when you’re on the field matters. Some players absolutely get better with a different voice in their ears. Happens all the time.

 

[Chopper0080]

The question isn’t who he is. The question rightfully is who does he have around him on BOTH sides of the ball. He hasn’t had a WR1 since DHop & DHop was washed by 2022. And he’s NEVER had a legit defense in his entire career unless you want to include the first 7 games of 2021, when he was 7-0 & a MVP candidate.

I think both of those things can lead to more wins, but I don't believe they will lead to Kyler playing better than he currently is. They aren't going to make him better in critical moments and in the 2 min drill. They aren't going to help him stay in the pocket longer and deliver a dime with a defensive player bearing down on him. They aren't going to make him more aggressive. Also consider everything Monti has done since he has been GM is to deemphasize Kyler Murry. Defensive coach. Run focused OC. Build the line. Heavy RB/TE focus. Invest in one WR and figure out the rest. Invest in the defense. All IMO of course.

Just highlighting a difference...I don't take the "MVP candidate" seriously as a testament to his skill. It was 7 games into a season. So many great coaches have talked about the beginning of seasons being a little bit of fools gold that everyone should listen to it. If Kyler is ever a MVP candidate with 4 weeks to go, I will happily acknowledge it.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think this concept is really, really overrated.

this coaching staff is super obsessed with fundamentals. If Kyler has fundamentals he needs to work on, I feel confident the staff knows it and have made it clear to him. He doesnt need Jordan Palmer in the offseason to work on those things.
I dont know if Kyler will raise him game another notch or not -- but I really doubt it will be because of who he did or didn't use in the offseason.

What high level QB instruction do you think Isreal Woolfork is giving Kyler Murray? Woolfork played WR at Grand Valley State. 2 years RB coach at Miami Ohio. 3 years WR coach at Miami Ohio. 2 years in the diversity fellowship with the Browns. Then QB coach of Kyler Murray.

One of my biggest issues with Gannon is the inexperience of his staff. Some positions I think are fine to go with this approach but QB isn't one of them. Also, giving a dual role to Drew Terrel is another highlight of needing to hire a larger staff to give more attention to the details you preach about focusing on.

 

[kerouac9]

What high level QB instruction do you think Isreal Woolfork is giving Kyler Murray? Woolfork played WR at Grand Valley State. 2 years RB coach at Miami Ohio. 3 years WR coach at Miami Ohio. 2 years in the diversity fellowship with the Browns. Then QB coach of Kyler Murray.

One of my biggest issues with Gannon is the inexperience of his staff. Some positions I think are fine to go with this approach but QB isn't one of them. Also, giving a dual role to Drew Terrel is another highlight of needing to hire a larger staff to give more attention to the details you preach about focusing on.

Bigger issue for me is that Kyler’s dad notoriously goes his own way and decides/prioritizes what’s best for Kyler. 97% of the time that’s worked — he’s a legendary high school QB, heisman trophy winner, #1 overall draft pick, offensive rookie of the year, 2x pro bowler. But does he know/want to get into that 0.001 percentile? What would he have to change to get there?

Kyler’s never communicated how he walked into an offseason with a plan for what he needs to improve and how he’s going to do it. It really seems like he’s going to keep doing what he’s doing only, like, more.

 

[PDXChris]

I can’t say I agree with your take. Kyler has clearly hit a plateau it seems. He’s not getting better that’s for damn sure if anything he’s regressed IMO. Coaching matters. How you respond to it matters. Who’s voice you harken back to when you’re on the field matters. Some players absolutely get better with a different voice in their ears. Happens all the time.

Agree. At the point, we just need him to focus on limiting mistakes later in the season.

 

[kerouac9]

Agree. At the point, we just need him to focus on limiting mistakes later in the season.

This isn’t something you can do—that’s not operative advice. He knows how to limit mistakes. That’s not the error.

The most obvious fail point is he’s not prepared for the adjustments teams make once the first blush of the offense is seen. A secondary question is how well he’s communicating what he sees that leads to errors so the scheme can correct for it.

That’s why his “I just Run the plays called” comments are so annoying. He’s the focal point of the offense but doesn’t want to take ownership for it when he’s not playing well.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

That’s why his “I just Run the plays called” comments are so annoying. He’s the focal point of the offense but doesn’t want to take ownership for it when he’s not playing well.

THIS x 1,000.

You don't hear the top QBs in the league talk like this, like they were held back by the playbook or something.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

kyler did do things differently this offseason (and last) - got the petzing playbook early and took everyone to stanford - stanford texas you ask? nope - his dad isn't in control - video games aren't the problem and he's thrown behind taller linemen his whole freakin life

kyler's problem is kyler getting too excited and the fear that comes with it - a fear that was developed in the nfl because he used to be fearless - not afraid of getting hit but afraid of making mistakes - not being confident in the moment - thinking too much - whatevs

but everybody and their grandma - the koolaiders - darksiders- the sportos - motor heads - ***** - bloods - waistoids - dweebies - ********* - they all want playoffs or they want kyler gone

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[Crimson Warrior]

but everybody and their grandma - the koolaiders - darksiders- the sportos - motor heads - ***** - bloods - waistoids - dweebies - ********* - they all want playoffs or they want kyler gone

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[Stout]

I think this concept is really, really overrated.

this coaching staff is super obsessed with fundamentals. If Kyler has fundamentals he needs to work on, I feel confident the staff knows it and have made it clear to him. He doesnt need Jordan Palmer in the offseason to work on those things.
I dont know if Kyler will raise him game another notch or not -- but I really doubt it will be because of who he did or didn't use in the offseason.

The idea that Kyler isn't doing everything he can to succeed? He clearly isn't. He's doing what's comfortable. Daddy is comfortable. He and Daddy have their approach, and he isn't changing it up come hell or high water. What did Josh Allen do when he wanted to be elite? He sought out specialized help. Same with Burrow. Good QBs that wanted to be elite. What has Kyler done? Er, stuck with Daddy.

He works hard on what he does. He has clearly shown maturity in working with the team and his teammates. He just lacks the awareness, wherewithal, or desire to go the extra mile. His attitude hasn't changed. His and Daddy's way works, and that's all he's going to do.

If the dude were flat-out doing everything he could to get better, I'd support him a lot more. I'll support KM as our starting QB and, for the sake of the team, pray he does enough to help the team win, but he doesn't have the heart to be the best he can be. That's a big thumbs down for me.

 

[Mainstreet]

kyler did do things differently this offseason (and last) - got the petzing playbook early and took everyone to stanford - stanford texas you ask? nope - his dad isn't in control - video games aren't the problem and he's thrown behind taller linemen his whole freakin life

kyler's problem is kyler getting too excited and the fear that comes with it - a fear that was developed in the nfl because he used to be fearless - not afraid of getting hit but afraid of making mistakes - not being confident in the moment - thinking too much - whatevs

but everybody and their grandma - the koolaiders - darksiders- the sportos - motor heads - ***** - bloods - waistoids - dweebies - ********* - they all want playoffs or they want kyler gone

​

Yeah, Kyler doesn't want to get hit, and it's understandable in a way with his size. However, that takes away from his greatest asset, the ability to run. And not just running to avoid a sack, but to make a big play.

Dropping way too deep on pass rushes instead of dumping the ball off usually doesn't work well. Making quicker decisions would help.

 

[Mainstreet]

It begs the question, why haven't the Cardinals been drafting late round quarterbacks?

I don't think being shy about the situation helps.

Tune doesn't appear to be a long term replacement.

 

[kerouac9]

It begs the question, why haven't the Cardinals been drafting late round quarterbacks?

I don't think being shy about the situation helps.

Tune doesn't appear to be a long term replacement.

They did two years ago

 

[ASUCHRIS]

THIS x 1,000.

You don't hear the top QBs in the league talk like this, like they were held back by the playbook or something.

If he really were a top QB, you would think the coaches and FO would tailor an offense to highlight his abilities. Instead we brought in Petzing, who runs about as conservative an offense as you'll see in modern football.

The emphasis on running the ball and turning Kyler into checkdown Charlie tells you about all you need to know on how much the head coach/OC/FO trust Kyler.

 

[kerouac9]

If he really were a top QB, you would think the coaches and FO would tailor an offense to highlight his abilities. Instead we brought in Petzing, who runs about as conservative an offense as you'll see in modern football.

The emphasis on running the ball and turning Kyler into checkdown Charlie tells you about all you need to know on how much the head coach/OC/FO trust Kyler.

FWIW I think we have evidence that Kyler lost his nerve on deep ball passing before Petzing arrived.

Yes, I think the emphasis on defense and run game highlights how the staff is trying to take as much off Kyler’s shoulders as possible, but I really don’t think they’re trying to Kyler-proof the team.

 

[DVontel]

I think the emphasis on defense and run game highlights

I mean, tbh, a staff should be doing that regardless if it’s Kyler or Eric Clarkson from across the street at QB. I agree with everything else in the post, though.

 

[Mainstreet]

They did two years ago

Gotta keep throwing those long passes, even if some are incompletions.

 

[slanidrac16]

FWIW I think we have evidence that Kyler lost his nerve on deep ball passing before Petzing arrived.

Yes, I think the emphasis on defense and run game highlights how the staff is trying to take as much off Kyler’s shoulders as possible, but I really don’t think they’re trying to Kyler-proof the team.

Was just going to post the same thing. Less on Kyler’s plate makes us better.
It appears this staff might feel the same way without saying it. The focus this off season is defense. Hope that pays dividends.

 

[kerouac9]

Gotta keep throwing those long passes, even if some are incompletions.

You only get so many draft picks. It’s not like the guys they took in the 2024 draft didn’t make the team. They also traded for Demons Ridder last year, which is another way they tried to expand the board.

It seemed like the staffs before Gannon had 4 or more QBs in camp every offseason for this reason. Seems like a miss on MOJG’s part, since they’re putting meaningless mileage on our guys and not digging into the dirt to perhaps find a gem.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Yes, I think the emphasis on defense and run game highlights how the staff is trying to take as much off Kyler’s shoulders as possible, but I really don’t think they’re trying to Kyler-proof the team.

Your first statement directly contradicts your second, hilarious.

 

[football karma]

He's doing what's comfortable. Daddy is comfortable. He and Daddy have their approach, and he isn't changing it up come hell or high water.

i think this is 100% speculation

 

[daves]

he’s not prepared for the adjustments teams make once the first blush of the offense is seen. A secondary question is how well he’s communicating what he sees that leads to errors so the scheme can correct for it.

THIS is what I believe is at the crux of his late season drop-offs in performance. It's not that he "chokes when the pressure is on". It's that he doesn't put in the time to study the aspects of the game that will prepare him for the new wrinkles that defenses are going to throw at him, so he doesn't anticipate where pressure will come from and who will be open, so he falters under pressure later in the season.

 

[daves]

I mean, tbh, a staff should be doing that regardless if it’s Kyler or Eric Clarkson from across the street at QB. I agree with everything else in the post, though.

Tell me more about this Eric Clarkson guy. Will he be available in the 2026 draft?