OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[DVontel]

Oh I missed DaHilg vs Stout and Brit round 34.

 

[SoonerLou]

Kylers deep ball woes are directly the result of him bulking up too much a few years back. The extra upper body mass threw off his mechanics and arm speed and his deep accuracy went to crap.
Stop with the excuses. It was his own fault. Not covid. Not a shoulder injury. Purely failing to stay flexible and accurate as he bulked because he put 100% into bulking that off season and not passing.
Then he blew out the knee. While rehabbing the knee he reverted back to his norm in body mass. Unfortunately he again failed to stay on top of his accuracy in the face of increasing arm speed...

Only 1 thing fixes it. Just one.
Repetitions.
Dude has to get out there and throw a couple hundred passes a day to his WR's and into five gallon buckets 40 yards down field.
It takes work. Lots of work. To both get accuracy and to maintain said accuracy.
But I like that he has met up with his skill players for extra work a few times this season.
It helps him to properly guage his guys speed so he can hit them in stride.
Also..off season...in SoCal...the "QB1" weight does not sit quite as heavily on his teammates. So if he keeps missing guys ...after a bit, they will start to let him know.
Even in the NFL you have to earn your cred. Other players only sweet spot you on potential for a couple seasons. Then it's put up or shut up. Because a crap QB costs all those guys money.
So I like kyler putting himself in position to get peer pressured and heckled in regards to football.
It can only be good.

Kyler wont fix the issue cause he's still doing things wrong. And that's working with his dad as his QB coach. He already had a weird throwing style for years anyway and there have been zero tweaks to compensate for anything.

i only watched the first 3 plays it's all against Jets. What strikes me right away is there's literally nobody really "open" on any of the 3 plays yet he gets 3 completions one for a TD. The one to McBride was the 2nd play it's the most open of the 3 and when Kyler lets it go the guy circles it and Trey isn't open at all it's just Kyler anticipating he WILL be open and threads it in there into tight coverage. The TD throw to MHJ again he's got no separation at all just a perfect throw, and if you watch the replays when they run it back nobody else on the field is open either.

He's far from perfect he's not an elite QB we all get that but I think stuff like those plays point out how often last year he was dealing with having to make a perfect throw or run to move the ball.

My biggest concern on our offense this year is will the WR room be much better than last year? I think MHJ will be better i'm not sure where the other improvement will come from? Unless Reiman picks it up as a receiver I'm not sure how much better the passing game can be this year. The one issue this offseason was we did NOT upgrade Wr really at all. I'm concerned about the guards, I'm concerned if Kyler will limit the INT's, but by far my biggest concern is are we going to see another year of WR's getting no separation at all

Yea unless MHJ morphs into Terrell Owens I don't see the offense changing much. Monti seems to be recreating a Titans approach with the passing game. And as much as I like Wilson he's more Nick Westbrook-Ikhine than people want to admit through 2 years. And AJ Brown didn't really go off until he got with the Eagles.

Maybe Darius impresses, but I do fear we'll look back and regret not double dipping on WR in a really strong draft in 2024.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Is Kyler elite?!?

 

[JohnnyCakes]

nope

 

[Stout]

Kyler wont fix the issue cause he's still doing things wrong. And that's working with his dad as his QB coach. He already had a weird throwing style for years anyway and there have been zero tweaks to compensate for anything.

Yea unless MHJ morphs into Terrell Owens I don't see the offense changing much. Monti seems to be recreating a Titans approach with the passing game. And as much as I like Wilson he's more Nick Westbrook-Ikhine than people want to admit through 2 years. And AJ Brown didn't really go off until he got with the Eagles.

Maybe Darius impresses, but I do fear we'll look back and regret not double dipping on WR in a really strong draft in 2024.

This is a great point. Kyler has shown he doesn't want to get better by keeping daddy as his guru. Imagine what he could have done if he challenged himself and worked with, say, a Palmer.

 

[SoonerLou]

This is a great point. Kyler has shown he doesn't want to get better by keeping daddy as his guru. Imagine what he could have done if he challenged himself and worked with, say, a Palmer.

Its pride. And to their credit he did improve throwing on the run in 2020/2021, etc. However, at someone you have to realize its not working and switch things up. Golfers get a new coach. Great QBs eventually have to find their QB coach. Brees started working with Tom House on his mechanics.

However, Kevin Murray is still bitter how his college career/attempt at a pro career ended so they'd rather just double down. And Kyler is right along with it. Despite his peers passing him up. He doesn't have the answers, but he's not even questioning why its not working.

(Now TBF an extremely talented roster can cover a QBs flaws. I'm just saying he's not doing enough to be one of those QBs where the talent around him doesn't matter.)

 

[WisconsinCard]

Early 2021.. we didn’t start working off of 2nd and and 3rd stringers until about half way through the season. But cute, lmk how the views are of Stout’s behind as you instantly tagalong w any post between myself and him. Rather embarrassing.

I'm a GAM and have my own opinions. I don't follow anyone. If you knew us you would find we disagree far more often than we agree. This is just one of the topics we agree on. But you do you newbie.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Kyler wont fix the issue cause he's still doing things wrong. And that's working with his dad as his QB coach. He already had a weird throwing style for years anyway and there have been zero tweaks to compensate for anything.

Yea unless MHJ morphs into Terrell Owens I don't see the offense changing much. Monti seems to be recreating a Titans approach with the passing game. And as much as I like Wilson he's more Nick Westbrook-Ikhine than people want to admit through 2 years. And AJ Brown didn't really go off until he got with the Eagles.

Maybe Darius impresses, but I do fear we'll look back and regret not double dipping on WR in a really strong draft in 2024.

Okay. Full disclosure, I really don't like his Dad being so involved either.

But, all of his successful stretches have been with his dad as his coach too. So what you're hypothesizing (that "his throwing motion is bad, therefore his long ball accuracy sucks") doesn't make sense because he's always had the same throwing motion (I think. I'm far from an expert on QB play/throwing mechanics).

I think something else has changed.

And just how bad was he in 2024 anyway? Compared to his peers? I saw the chart Britcard posted but would like see how he compared to Hebert/Stroud/Love/Mayfield/Mahomes etc.

 

[kerouac9]

Okay. Full disclosure, I really don't like his Dad being so involved either.

But, all of his successful stretches have been with his dad as his coach too. So what you're hypothesizing (that "his throwing motion is bad, therefore his long ball accuracy sucks") doesn't make sense because he's always had the same throwing motion (I think. I'm far from an expert on QB play/throwing mechanics).

I think something else has changed.

And just how bad was he in 2024 anyway? Compared to his peers? I saw the chart Britcard posted but would like see how he compared to Hebert/Stroud/Love/Mayfield/Mahomes etc.

He's a six-year NFL veteran. There's zero chance he can change his throwing motion at this point.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

deep balls aren't just deep balls - there's a lot to consider - is he planted when he makes the throws or running for his life? are the receivers running designed routes or breaking off? i don't wanna get balls deep in deep balls but are we talking first down deep balls or third down deep balls against prevent defenses? is paris and/or jonah on the field? it's not it merely a question of can kyler do it - because we know he can - it's actually a question of can WE throw the deep ball

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

WATCH: Arizona Cardinals Get Work in at USC Ahead of Training Camp

Arizona Cardinals training camp is set to begin in less than two weeks. The Cardinals will be aiming to produce their first playoff season since 2021, and they

www.si.com

Great to see Murray doing this. However, it is super disappointing that only Marvin Harrison Jr, Trey McBride, and Higgins joined him. That's a terrible look for Wilson especially

 

[football karma]

He's a six-year NFL veteran. There's zero chance he can change his throwing motion at this point.

especially when his mechanics have always been ...... unique

Gannon's whole take to coaching is about harping on detailed, fundamentals. I doubt his approach excludes the QB.

Meaning: if there are fundamental QB things like footwork, etc that need to be improved -- I am confident that the coaching staff has emphasized it. And, K1 seems very bought in to this coaching staff.

Kyler's improvement will be about if he can, not about if he is getting the right advice or not.

 

[oaken1]

deep balls aren't just deep balls - there's a lot to consider - is he planted when he makes the throws or running for his life? are the receivers running designed routes or breaking off? i don't wanna get balls deep in deep balls but are we talking first down deep balls or third down deep balls against prevent defenses? is paris and/or jonah on the field? it's not it merely a question of can kyler do it - because we know he can - it's actually a question of can WE throw the deep ball

You really typed all that out...just so you could say, " I dont wanna get balls deep in deep balls"?

 

[Adrian]

Former Arizona Cardinal Gets Honest on Kyler Murray

Kyler Murray needs to work on these things for the Arizona Cardinals in 2025.

www.si.com

 

[Brian in Mesa]

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[kerouac9]

Former Arizona Cardinal Gets Honest on Kyler Murray

Kyler Murray needs to work on these things for the Arizona Cardinals in 2025.

www.si.com

Many typo in the URL. Donnie not doing his best work.

Also, it's Antron.

 

[Chopper0080]

WATCH: Arizona Cardinals Get Work in at USC Ahead of Training Camp

Arizona Cardinals training camp is set to begin in less than two weeks. The Cardinals will be aiming to produce their first playoff season since 2021, and they

www.si.com

Great to see Murray doing this. However, it is super disappointing that only Marvin Harrison Jr, Trey McBride, and Higgins joined him. That's a terrible look for Wilson especially

Why? He is the 3rd or 4th option and Kyler doesn't read progressions. With 71 targets last year he probably just needs to start going to the OL camps with Paris and Fro.

(some rage bait for the chat)

 

[cardncubfan]

He's a six-year NFL veteran. There's zero chance he can change his throwing motion at this point.

Why? Pitchers do it all of the time.

 

[kerouac9]

Why? Pitchers do it all of the time.

Do they? Do they also do it in less than four seconds with 370 lbs behemoths bearing down on them?

 

[DVontel]

WATCH: Arizona Cardinals Get Work in at USC Ahead of Training Camp

Arizona Cardinals training camp is set to begin in less than two weeks. The Cardinals will be aiming to produce their first playoff season since 2021, and they

www.si.com

Great to see Murray doing this. However, it is super disappointing that only Marvin Harrison Jr, Trey McBride, and Higgins joined him. That's a terrible look for Wilson especially

Pretty sure Wilson’s Wife is expecting real soon.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Pretty sure Wilson’s Wife is expecting real soon.

Ah if that is the case then understandable.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

But as Chopper alluded to, the important thing is extra time / work with MHJr

 

[602 Native]

Okay. Full disclosure, I really don't like his Dad being so involved either.

But, all of his successful stretches have been with his dad as his coach too. So what you're hypothesizing (that "his throwing motion is bad, therefore his long ball accuracy sucks") doesn't make sense because he's always had the same throwing motion (I think. I'm far from an expert on QB play/throwing mechanics).

I think something else has changed.

And just how bad was he in 2024 anyway? Compared to his peers? I saw the chart Britcard posted but would like see how he compared to Hebert/Stroud/Love/Mayfield/Mahomes etc.

Its called DPs scheme absolutely sucks for deep ball offense.

 

[DaHilg]

I'm a GAM and have my own opinions. I don't follow anyone. If you knew us you would find we disagree far more often than we agree. This is just one of the topics we agree on. But you do you newbie.

lol… this is just hilarious

 

[PACardsFan]

Add in a terrible IOL.. 4 variables too many for deep throws to be working;

- Kyler being skittish in the pocket
- No true deep threat
- Special Petz scheming and playcalling
- weak IOL.. being attacked at Kyler’s biggest weakness in his game. He simply can’t handle interior pressure. A factor of his physical limitations - size.

Let’s be honest, not many, if any QB’s do well handling interior pressure. Although our IOL still isn’t a strength, it’s ridiculously better than it was during the KK years. Especially late in those seasons after injuries took their toll. Both the 2020 & 2021 seasons ended shamefully because our OL, especially the IOL, were abysmal.