Drafting Backwards - The Defense

[MadCardDisease]

idk man - idk how it is for monti -i imagine he has a lot more draft stamina than i do with him being an expert and all - but my draft ***** goes away once we get in the mid 20s

if someone slips and there's no other teams to worry about then sure - and of course

So trade back in the second round 5 spots. That should net you a 5th and a 6th.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I don't remember where i clipped this from honestly

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I think they are missing the Chief trade:

Cardinals trade linebacker Cameron Thomas to Chiefs for 7th-round draft pick

 

[BritCard]

I don't see Monti drafting for need.

Every team drafts for need to some extent. We aren't going to draft a QB at #20 is that's the best player on the board.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Every team drafts for need to some extent. We aren't going to draft a QB at #20 is that's the best player on the board.

Agreed. But Monti isn't going into the draft saying I need to come out with a DT in the first round.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Every team drafts for need to some extent. We aren't going to draft a QB at #20 is that's the best player on the board.

have you seen tune's push tush?

 

[BritCard]

Agreed. But Monti isn't going into the draft saying I need to come out with a DT in the first round.

No. He should go with his board, but his board will be weighted to what he needs. Or it should be. I wouldn't think much chance of them taking a WR in round 1 for example.

 

[Stout]

All Monti has to do is move back a couple of spots in the draft and he will easily fill those missing picks.

No thanks. Stick and pick.

 

[oaken1]

No thanks. Stick and pick.

agree. if anything, trade the late picks to move up in round 1 or 2 to get a guy they have targeted.
with 9 rookies from 24, we can come out of the 25 draft with only 3 or 4 players and be fine. if this past draft hits as well as it looks right now we are gonna have cap difficulties in a few years trying to keep our own guys,,,gonna be nice to have champagne problems for a change

 

[gmabel830]

Monti can go into the next draft with a focus on the DL. Outside of that there are not a tonne of obvious gaping holes.

Corners seem to be coming on well. Safety is set (assuming they extend Budda which seems inevitable), RB is set.

Connor is a free agent after this year too. I think he and Budda will both re-sign, but safety and RB could be big holes if those guys leave. I think the hope was that Rabbit and Benson were drafted as potential replacements, but they are so important to the defense/offense that I don't think you can plug those guys right in next year.

 

[slanidrac16]

I have no problem with what Monte has done in the draft. I do have any issue with what they have done (or not done) in FA. The league calendar allows you to fill holes in FA and then draft BPA in the draft. I still can't understand how they did not address the pass rush in any major capacity before the season. If we would have had a decent pass rush, we very well may have 1-2 more wins right now. Not recognizing that is either an ego thing (smartest person in the room syndrome) or incompetency. My vote is for ego. To think BJ, Zaven or Gardeck were the answer was wishful thinking at best.

But Ogilare( sp) Gardeck and Robinson were a part of the build but got hurt. The fact that this defense has been playing fairly well with their replacements.
Had MO blew 20m on a CB we might not be enjoying the success of the guys we have.
Blowing huge $$$ on 1 guy on the d-line going into this year was not going to make us better.
MO is attempting to build a roster of quality and depth. It’s working. Just look at our o-line. With all the injuries we have sustained this unit hasn’t dropped off at all.
I think our big free agent signings are going to come from within. PJ, McBride and the likes will be rewarded.

 

[slanidrac16]

my guess at the defensive draft philosophy:

Gannon being a DB coach by trade, I think the defensive philosophy is to get a deep group of DBs who can cover and force the QB to go through progressions / and run a scheme that limits big plays.

This means a rotational group of C+ to B front-5 players can get enough pressure over enough 3rd downs to limit offensive points.

This doesnt mean they dont want A+ level front 5 players, but it means its not a requirement for an adequate defense.

It also explains why in Monti's first two drafts, they have taken 6 DBs to 4 front 5 players -- even though Monti started with 2 vet DBs but nearly 0 starter level front 5 players.

Nice post! I absolutely believe MO is looking for 6-7 mad dogs to rotate the front 7. And if a guy like Stills or Robinson blossoms and becomes an A+ player all the better.

 

[Stout]

But Ogilare( sp) Gardeck and Robinson were a part of the build but got hurt. The fact that this defense has been playing fairly well with their replacements.
Had MO blew 20m on a CB we might not be enjoying the success of the guys we have.
Blowing huge $$$ on 1 guy on the d-line going into this year was not going to make us better.
MO is attempting to build a roster of quality and depth. It’s working. Just look at our o-line. With all the injuries we have sustained this unit hasn’t dropped off at all.
I think our big free agent signings are going to come from within. PJ, McBride and the likes will be rewarded.

If Gardeck was part of the build then it needs torn down again lol He's a backup level player and special teamer, not a "piece."

 

[slanidrac16]

If Gardeck was part of the build then it needs torn down again lol He's a backup level player and special teamer, not a "piece."

As I said in another thread I think MO is looking for 6-8 dogs to rotate and fit the scheme and culture. Special teams is a good thing, no?
We keep saying this guys aren’t good but look where we are sitting. Gardeck is a scrapper with 3 sacks? before he got hurt.

 

[BACH]

If Gardeck was part of the build then it needs torn down again lol He's a backup level player and special teamer, not a "piece."

I feel this is the same conversation We had before.

3rd down pass-rusher is also a role

 

[BritCard]

No thanks. Stick and pick.

I'm thinking a little differently for the next draft.

I'm thinking we already have a young team with some promising players and we can only carry so many more under 23 year olds. I believe we have picks 1 through 5 and a the Chiefs 7th from Cam Thomas. I'd be fine with trading the 5th and 7th either for vets, or using them in the draft to move and get the player you like. I'd be fine next year coming out of the draft with just 4 picks.

 

[BritCard]

Connor is a free agent after this year too. I think he and Budda will both re-sign, but safety and RB could be big holes if those guys leave. I think the hope was that Rabbit and Benson were drafted as potential replacements, but they are so important to the defense/offense that I don't think you can plug those guys right in next year.

I don't see anyone in the draft being better than those guys in replacing Conner and Budda. I expect both to resign, but if they didn't I would expect Benson and Rabbit to be their replacements. Both have shown promise.

Frankly I don't think this team can afford to lose either of those guys. They are the heart of each side of the ball.

 

[BritCard]

But Ogilare( sp) Gardeck and Robinson were a part of the build but got hurt. The fact that this defense has been playing fairly well with their replacements.
Had MO blew 20m on a CB we might not be enjoying the success of the guys we have.
Blowing huge $$$ on 1 guy on the d-line going into this year was not going to make us better.
MO is attempting to build a roster of quality and depth. It’s working. Just look at our o-line. With all the injuries we have sustained this unit hasn’t dropped off at all.
I think our big free agent signings are going to come from within. PJ, McBride and the likes will be rewarded.

Free agency is massively overrated for top end talent. There's nearly always a reason teams let a guy go and they rarely work out. The hit rate on top end FA signings is pretty poor in regards to value.

Christian Wilkins was the biggest non QB signing last offseason and he has 2 sacks, 2 TFLs and 14 tackles in 5 games and the Raiders defense sucks, and he's missed 5 games.

Dante Stills has 3.5 sacks, 3 TFLs and a forced fumble in only 80 more snaps.

The Panthers spent $20m a year on Robert Hunt at Guard and he's been worse than Will Hernandez.

I'm looking at the top 10 paid guys from FA and the only ones that you can say have offered value are Danielle Hunter and Jonathan Greenard, which is ironic because I thought both were overpaid at the time.

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

I don't remember where i clipped this from honestly

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Why are yall so concerned about not having a pick in 6/7? Did we not just draft 10 players last year?

We should keep our picks, don’t trade back, and get actual contributors on this team. I could care less about not having round 6/7 players

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Frankly I don't think this team can afford to lose either of those guys. They are the heart of each side of the ball.

I think this is the hardest part of the equation to evaluate.

We know what is said and what we see publically about each player, but what is their true worth to the team in terms of the intangible benefit (i.e. leadership) they bring to the table?

It's not "nothing" and neither does it make them irreplaceable.

Sounds like things in the locker room are very good at this point. All other things remaining equal, if I'm MO, I'm not going to disturb that unless I absolutely have to.

 

[BritCard]

I think this is the hardest part of the equation to evaluate.

We know what is said and what we see publically about each player, but what is their true worth to the team in terms of the intangible benefit (i.e. leadership) they bring to the table?

It's not "nothing" and neither does it make them irreplaceable.

Sounds like things in the locker room are very good at this point. All other things remaining equal, if I'm MO, I'm not going to disturb that unless I absolutely have to.

I think players on both sides of the ball are attached to those two guys. Both of them are almost totemic. I think if we removed either, especially if they wanted to stay and we just didn't do it, would really damage moral.

But both guys are playing really good football and should be resigned on their own merits. Both are tricky deals though. They both play one of the least valuable positions on their side of the ball while also managing to be crucial to the heart and soul of the team. And both are probably on their last career deals and want to get paid.