Suns updates and discussion for the 2023-24 season

[clyde2tw]

I re-watched the fourth quarter just to make sure I wasn't imagining things, but the fourth quarter wasn't awful. They were actually getting good shots- they were just not making them. I do think if your open threes aren't falling, you should do some more cutting, but they did beat the zone- they just weren't hitting their shots. They can do a better job, but they weren't terrible in the fourth.

I was guessing that's due to tired legs. Gordon missed 3 3s to begin the 4th, but when he rested for a couple min and came back in, he hit it again.

 

[clyde2tw]

Interesting on the telecast they said the league basically knows to press the Suns full court in the 4th to get them to turnover the ball.

They seem not to get it to be prepared. In the 4th, only Okogie was attentive enough to run back as the 4th in our own backcourt to get Beal's inbound passes. Pacers pressed us into a 8sec. violation by Booker. KBD inbounded to the other team or got stolen while dribbling the ball upcourt 3 times in recent games. Yet, they don't learn.

 

[Phrazbit]

There is absolutely no creativity on offense at all in the 4th quarters. What happened the previous 3 is irrelevant for whatever reason.

Yep. We slow to a crawl and the ball movement stops.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

As cheese and I have pointed out time and time again, we are incredulous that anyone within the suns organization believes the 4 corners offense can work in the nba with 8+ minutes remaining.

 

[Phrazbit]

As cheese and I have pointed out time and time again, we are incredulous that anyone within the suns organization believes the 4 corners offense can work in the nba with 8+ minutes remaining.

I don't even know if it's the 4 corners.

When our offense really bogs down it's more like Allen Iverson in the mid 2000s or Kobe in the early post Shaq years. Either Booker or Durant dribbling most of the clock away and then settling for a heavily contested 2 point fade. Even if you make that difficult shot at a 40-45% rate, you're still getting smoked by most modern NBA offenses.

When everyone played at a crawl, you could get away with a ball hog taking difficult shots that few players can make, but the math doesn't work anymore. In the 4th quarter we look like the mid 2000s teams that the "7 seconds or less" Suns used to run out of the gym.

When we play fast, we're the best offensive team in the NBA, and it isn't even close. Blows my mind how quickly our star players slip into bad habits, night after night after night.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't even know if it's the 4 corners.

When our offense really bogs down it's more like Allen Iverson in the mid 2000s or Kobe in the early post Shaq years. Either Booker or Durant dribbling most of the clock away and then settling for a heavily contested 2 point fade. Even if you make that difficult shot at a 40-45% rate, you're still getting smoked by most modern NBA offenses.

When everyone played at a crawl, you could get away with a ball hog taking difficult shots that few players can make, but the math doesn't work anymore. In the 4th quarter we look like the mid 2000s teams that the "7 seconds or less" Suns used to run out of the gym.

When we play fast, we're the best offensive team in the NBA, and it isn't even close. Blows my mind how quickly our star players slip into bad habits, night after night after night.

Agree that when we are moving (and not throwing the ball away) we are at our best. But it’s not just the hero pounding the ball play. There’s a definitive effort to run clock down when they get a lead. And they start it far too early. I’ve heard Eddie chastise them for them doing so as well as well as the other crew. It’s obvious to them as well that we are in some sort of 4 corners offense trying to drain clock. It’s insane.

 

[Covert Rain]

Agree that when we are moving (and not throwing the ball away) we are at our best. But it’s not just the hero pounding the ball play. There’s a definitive effort to run clock down when they get a lead. And they start it far too early. I’ve heard Eddie chastise them for them doing so as well as well as the other crew. It’s obvious to them as well that we are in some sort of 4 corners offense trying to drain clock. It’s insane.

He also said it's OK to run that offense as long as you mix it up. In other words, not every single time you come down with the ball. I mean, everybody and their brother can see the ISO ball coming from a mile away. Evidently, everybody but Frank Vogel.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'd kick the tires and see what it takes to get Bones Hyland.

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'd kick the tires and see what it takes to get Bones Hyland.

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You’ve been jones in’ for bones for a long time.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'd kick the tires and see what it takes to get Bones Hyland.

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I don't think we need another guy who doesn't pass much and can't guard a chair.

I don't really know what he is supposed to be good at. His splits stink.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think we need another guy who doesn't pass much and can't guard a chair.

I don't really know what he is supposed to be good at. His splits stink.

I like Hyland's speed, quickness and ability to defend. He is a work in a progress, but he is well worth it at age only 23.

When I see him play, I see a ton of upside.

 

[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[Mainstreet]

Gambo says the Suns do not have interest in Jae'Sean Tate.

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[clyde2tw]

Gambo says the Suns do not have interest in Jae'Sean Tate.

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We already have Okogie who is better. I also doubt the seriousness of our supposed interest in ONeill.

 

[Mainstreet]

We already have Okogie who is better. I also doubt the seriousness of our supposed interest in ONeill.

O'Neal didn't impress tonight, but it's all about rotation depth.

Hopefully the Suns have interest in some other players who might have more impact.

Okogie is a keeper.

 

[Hoop Head]

We already have Okogie who is better. I also doubt the seriousness of our supposed interest in ONeill.

The upside to an O'Neale deal is it has to be Little and a minimum salary guy for him to make the money work. That opens up a spot for a potential buyout signing. Plus rotation depth. Being in tax hell, I don't see Ishbia rushing to waive someone if there is q signing out there.

 

[1982baskets]

I feel our ball movement was good in the fourth. We get slowed down with the pressure defense, but that would happen even with a point guard. It's not like we're losing the ball unable to get over halfcourt. Durant, Booker, Beal all are capable to get the offense going.

In many ways, we're like a team that would run a Triangle type offense. We don't actually run it, but there have been teams that have had immense success without that PG. The reason we're not elite is our defense. The Bulls teams had elite defense. No point guard. I'd even argue, we have better scoring ability than some of the teams that have won championships. Even without the PG. The real reason we won't win a title with what we have - with what we have we can't get enough stops.

Vogel has made the team respectable on defense, but he can only do so much.

 

[1982baskets]

PS We're #8 on offense in the NBA now. We've been #3 in the league since Beal came back 5 weeks ago. That's about what we expected from this team with the big 3 and Vogel. Respectable defense and a great offense.

Unfortunately though unless we get some two way players, players that can lock down on defense while being respectable on offense, we're going to be unable to win a title. I hope we make a move. The team looks like it could do some damage with the big 3.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Just a crazy thought. Would Ben Simmons potentially be a good fit for this team? He could be the facilitator on offense, yet provide versatile defense on all 5 positions. I am not sure where he is lately, but he is at that age where some players just really start to come into their own. Maybe its a bad idea.

A line up of say: Simmons, Book, Allen, Durant, and Nurk would have an odd sort of balance of offense, defense, and ball handling.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Just a crazy thought. Would Ben Simmons potentially be a good fit for this team? He could be the facilitator on offense, yet provide versatile defense on all 5 positions. I am not sure where he is lately, but he is at that age where some players just really start to come into their own. Maybe its a bad idea.

A line up of say: Simmons, Book, Allen, Durant, and Nurk would have an odd sort of balance of offense, defense, and ball handling.

Ben Simmons doesn’t like playing basketball. We already got rid of one guy like that with Ayton. There’s no reason to correct the correction already made by bringing in DeAndre’s equal at lethargy.

Also, throwing Simmons in there would destroy spacing.

 

[Mainstreet]

Just a crazy thought. Would Ben Simmons potentially be a good fit for this team? He could be the facilitator on offense, yet provide versatile defense on all 5 positions. I am not sure where he is lately, but he is at that age where some players just really start to come into their own. Maybe its a bad idea.

A line up of say: Simmons, Book, Allen, Durant, and Nurk would have an odd sort of balance of offense, defense, and ball handling.

Simmons is under contract for two seasons and presently makes $37,893,408 million.

The Suns would have to trade a star to make it work.

Why in the world would they do that for a player who has only played in 7 games this season.

 

[Suns_fan69]

The idea of Ben Simmons from 4 years ago would be great for this team, but the current reality isn't it

 

[Peter Sheldon]

PS We're #8 on offense in the NBA now. We've been #3 in the league since Beal came back 5 weeks ago. That's about what we expected from this team with the big 3 and Vogel. Respectable defense and a great offense.

Unfortunately though unless we get some two way players, players that can lock down on defense while being respectable on offense, we're going to be unable to win a title. I hope we make a move. The team looks like it could do some damage with the big 3.

That makes a lot of sense. This Suns team could lose in 2nd or 3rd round as-is even if healthy. Suns need an athletic big that can hang with the tall young wings in the league and grab some rebounds. Not sure with Suns limited assets whether we can get that. A PG would be nice. Anyone available would help with passing but at the expense of either shooting or defense or both. The Suns are already small and kinda weak on defense. Don't see how that works unless they get very lucky.

 

[Proximo]

I like Hyland's speed, quickness and ability to defend. He is a work in a progress, but he is well worth it at age only 23.

When I see him play, I see a ton of upside.

He's also a team cancer - which is why Denver and now the Clippers wanted to get rid of him.

That said we are so desperate for any kind of bench scoring I would give up a second for him.