What can (or should) be done to fix the team this season?

[Superbone]

If the playoffs were today, the Suns wouldn't make the play-in.

They are in 11th place in the West behind the Warriors.

Interesting but it has no bearing on anything. The playoffs are determined after 82 games and we've only played 29 with 53 to go. We will either tread water at this level or continue to get worse in which case we will still be out of the playoffs or we'll figure some things out and get better and most likely back into the playoff picture. 53 games is a long way to go. We are just a little way over a third into it.

It doesn't look great now but anything can happen in the next 53 games. I'm looking forward to seeing what we look like with everybody healthy early next year. I can't imagine we can get a whole lot worse. At least now is the best time to struggle. It would be tons worse if this was happening near the end of the season.

 

[Phrazbit]

I have a full on "Dark Side" solution for this mess... but I don't think we're there yet.

It does nothing to fix this season, but it solves a lot of the problems with trying to rebuild in the near future.

I actually think it is somewhat realistic also.

This might not be the right thread for it.

 

[1982baskets]

Move Grayson/Goodwin (and whomever of the non-max players) plus second round picks for a PG. Doesn't have to be anyone special, just your PG that can bring the ball up a bit, initiate some offense, give you some 3 point shooting. Ideally we have someone with a little bit of size, even if it's a combo PG/SG type of guard. This will allow Book to be more free as the game wears on to become a shooter/scorer, and allow the 4th quarter offense to be more crisp. Booker just has not been the PG they were hoping him to be.

If the PG has some size, you can run Beal/Book/KD/Nurk with him as your closing/4th quarter lineup. There's still time to at least get into the 7th-8th play in stage by April. I haven't given up on that, but we need a PG badly it seems.

 

[1982baskets]

I have a full on "Dark Side" solution for this mess... but I don't think we're there yet.

It does nothing to fix this season, but it solves a lot of the problems with trying to rebuild in the near future.

I actually think it is somewhat realistic also.

This might not be the right thread for it.

A re-build can't happen because of the picks they gave up for KD. If the team re-builds, I think they would end up giving high lottery picks to the Nets. 2025 pick, 2027 pick. If we're really bad next season, we're going to give the Nets a great pick from what I understand. The whole re-build process is to get those lottery picks in the end of a losing season.

In a way, it makes sense to tank a bit this season, in the sense to sell off players, but you can't do a full re-build. Not with 2025 and 2027 picks going to the Nets. I would be open to it, if we had our own picks. It takes at least 2-3 years to get out of a full re-build.

Sure 14-15 or being a .500 team stinks right now, but getting back to that from say where Detroit is, is not easy. We're not that far from being a good team. We need to get a point guard, and we need to find a way for Beal/KD/Book to develop some chemistry. Right now, I think it's easier to get 1-2 players that make you a more complete good team, vs doing a full re-build with no control of your draft picks in the 3 of the coming 4 years after this one.

 

[taz02]

We may not want it to be time for a full rebuild but its hard to imagine how this team will able to add difference making payers without it.

I'm hoping the problem is coaching. Easier to replace the coach than this roster.

I agree we need a PG, he better be big and play some defense.

 

[Yuma]

I am reading Books' comments from last game. He is saying he and KD took less shots because they were double teamed, and that they were making the passes to the open guys. Book said they would keep playing that way in the future. So opposing teams will continue to double us to take away the two best shooters/scorers on the team in the fourth quarter. We are essentially playing into the opposing team's hands.

Either our secondary guys start shooting, or we need to design plays where if one guy is doubled the other guys is coming off a screen, etc. to be the open guy. Just feels like this team has not figured that double team defense out yet. That is essentially our biggest change that needs to be made.

 

[Proximo]

A re-build can't happen because of the picks they gave up for KD. If the team re-builds, I think they would end up giving high lottery picks to the Nets. 2025 pick, 2027 pick. If we're really bad next season, we're going to give the Nets a great pick from what I understand. The whole re-build process is to get those lottery picks in the end of a losing season.

In a way, it makes sense to tank a bit this season, in the sense to sell off players, but you can't do a full re-build. Not with 2025 and 2027 picks going to the Nets. I would be open to it, if we had our own picks. It takes at least 2-3 years to get out of a full re-build.

Sure 14-15 or being a .500 team stinks right now, but getting back to that from say where Detroit is, is not easy. We're not that far from being a good team. We need to get a point guard, and we need to find a way for Beal/KD/Book to develop some chemistry. Right now, I think it's easier to get 1-2 players that make you a more complete good team, vs doing a full re-build with no control of your draft picks in the 3 of the coming 4 years after this one.

We can't get our own picks back - but that doesn't mean a rebuild isn't inevitable if this keeps up for the rest of the season.

No owner is going to pay 50-100 million in tax for a team that doesn't make the playoff or gets out in the first round.

 

[Proximo]

I am reading Books' comments from last game. He is saying he and KD took less shots because they were double teamed, and that they were making the passes to the open guys. Book said they would keep playing that way in the future. So opposing teams will continue to double us to take away the two best shooters/scorers on the team in the fourth quarter. We are essentially playing into the opposing team's hands.

Either our secondary guys start shooting, or we need to design plays where if one guy is doubled the other guys is coming off a screen, etc. to be the open guy. Just feels like this team has not figured that double team defense out yet. That is essentially our biggest change that needs to be made.

This is bull.

We aren't playing into other teams hands by passing out of double teams.

Did you not just watch Luka dismantle us by passing out of double teams? You have to make teams pay for doubling you, then they will stop doing it and the scorers get single teamed and can be their star selves.

 

[Hoop Head]

I have a full on "Dark Side" solution for this mess... but I don't think we're there yet.

It does nothing to fix this season, but it solves a lot of the problems with trying to rebuild in the near future.

I actually think it is somewhat realistic also.

This might not be the right thread for it.

Is your dark side solution like the Pistons plan of killing or dismembering 5 players to be allowed an expansion type draft? I'm not on board yet but I'm getting there.

 

[Yuma]

This is bull.

We aren't playing into other teams hands by passing out of double teams.

Did you not just watch Luka dismantle us by passing out of double teams? You have to make teams pay for doubling you, then they will stop doing it and the scorers get single teamed and can be their star selves.

Oh I hear you! I scream at my TV all the time when either guy gets doubled, "Somebody is open! Get them the ball!!" I am SOOOOO FRUSTRATED that our team seems the only team I watch that cannot take advantage of double teams!! Yes I saw Luka doing it! Yes it happens when we play Denver. Yes, it happens when we play ANYONE. Yet it always seems we are guarded fully and no-one is open! Why? That's why I am not buying Young.

We are playing into other teams hands by not exploiting the double, and that's why EVERY team in the NBA doubles us! They watch video and see us unable to do anything, so they keep doing it!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Move Grayson/Goodwin (and whomever of the non-max players) plus second round picks for a PG. Doesn't have to be anyone special, just your PG that can bring the ball up a bit, initiate some offense, give you some 3 point shooting. Ideally we have someone with a little bit of size, even if it's a combo PG/SG type of guard. This will allow Book to be more free as the game wears on to become a shooter/scorer, and allow the 4th quarter offense to be more crisp. Booker just has not been the PG they were hoping him to be.

If the PG has some size, you can run Beal/Book/KD/Nurk with him as your closing/4th quarter lineup. There's still time to at least get into the 7th-8th play in stage by April. I haven't given up on that, but we need a PG badly it seems.

Every team that has a less than stellar point guard is praying for an upgrade. We might be able to get one of those less than stellar PG's but losing Grayson will hurt especially once Beal returns to the lineup as that less than stellar PG will then be reduced to playing garbage minutes.

The only way to truly fix this team is to actually turn it into a championship contender. Nothing less would suffice. And IMO the only way that could happen is for everyone to get fully healthy, Durant to completely buy into this team, Vogel to figure out rotations, the coaching staff to instill some defensive intensity and awareness into this group and everybody to carry a rabbit's foot, a four leaf clover and a horseshoe with them at all times. And even then, it would probably require an extra dose of bad luck for at least a half dozen other teams.

IOW, I don't think it's possible to fix this team. We can make it a little better but there's no way to turn this roster into a championship roster in the time we have left before Durant ages out. That is, unless Beal comes back healthy and plays like the Beal of a few years ago that was generally considered to be better than Booker. And I don't see that happening.

 

[Phrazbit]

A re-build can't happen because of the picks they gave up for KD. If the team re-builds, I think they would end up giving high lottery picks to the Nets. 2025 pick, 2027 pick. If we're really bad next season, we're going to give the Nets a great pick from what I understand. The whole re-build process is to get those lottery picks in the end of a losing season.

In a way, it makes sense to tank a bit this season, in the sense to sell off players, but you can't do a full re-build. Not with 2025 and 2027 picks going to the Nets. I would be open to it, if we had our own picks. It takes at least 2-3 years to get out of a full re-build.

Sure 14-15 or being a .500 team stinks right now, but getting back to that from say where Detroit is, is not easy. We're not that far from being a good team. We need to get a point guard, and we need to find a way for Beal/KD/Book to develop some chemistry. Right now, I think it's easier to get 1-2 players that make you a more complete good team, vs doing a full re-build with no control of your draft picks in the 3 of the coming 4 years after this one.

Agreed.

We can’t blow it up without control of our own draft…

That is why step one would be to trade Booker to the Nets for all the picks we sent them, whatever other picks we can get, and the rotting corpse of Ben Simmons.

Step two is trade Durant for a load of picks from the Thunder… and whatever contracts are needed to get it to work. (No chance we could get Chet though, he’s worth more than Durant alone). But I could see the thunder passing on him entirely, in which case you send him to Miami for whatever you can get.

Ideally we do this in the summer, that way we don’t end up having our pick swapped this year and it allows this team this season to try and turn it around, but if things go seriously sideways then you gotta do it soon, while Durant still has some semblance of trade value.

Sadly, I think we’d be stuck with Beal. I’m sure he’d be willing to waive his no trade clause to get out but I doubt anyone would take him, at least not until he is expiring.

We still would be at risk of giving up premium picks in the swap years but… we’re already facing that likelihood.

It would be ruthless, but good drafting and good use of the cap space we’d have relatively soon could have the team turned around far quicker than it appears we could in our current situation.

This isn’t what I’d want to do but this is a “break in case of emergency“ plan. If this gets really bad, I don’t see another way out.

 

[Hoop Head]

Agreed.

We can’t blow it up without control of our own draft…

That is why step one would be to trade Booker to the Nets for all the picks we sent them, whatever other picks we can get, and the rotting corpse of Ben Simmons.

Step two is trade Durant for a load of picks from the Thunder… and whatever contracts are needed to get it to work. (No chance we could get Chet though, he’s worth more than Durant alone). But I could see the thunder passing on him entirely, in which case you send him to Miami for whatever you can get.

Ideally we do this in the summer, that way we don’t end up having our pick swapped this year and it allows this team this season to try and turn it around, but if things go seriously sideways then you gotta do it soon, while Durant still has some semblance of trade value.

Sadly, I think we’d be stuck with Beal. I’m sure he’d be willing to waive his no trade clause to get out but I doubt anyone would take him, at least not until he is expiring.

We still would be at risk of giving up premium picks in the swap years but… we’re already facing that likelihood.

It would be ruthless, but good drafting and good use of the cap space we’d have relatively soon could have the team turned around far quicker than it appears we could in our current situation.

This isn’t what I’d want to do but this is a “break in case of emergency“ plan. If this gets really bad, I don’t see another way out.

Not the craziest idea or even all that bad. I'd be for it with a better GM who has a proven track record of drafting quality prospects. James Jones would need to go. I could handle rooting for Brooklyn from afar until we can compete. If they somehow win a championship though I hope you ASFN'ers donate to my gofundme for my legal defense fund because I'll get the Suns that expansion style draft.

 

[Yuma]

Agreed.

We can’t blow it up without control of our own draft…

That is why step one would be to trade Booker to the Nets for all the picks we sent them, whatever other picks we can get, and the rotting corpse of Ben Simmons.

Step two is trade Durant for a load of picks from the Thunder… and whatever contracts are needed to get it to work. (No chance we could get Chet though, he’s worth more than Durant alone). But I could see the thunder passing on him entirely, in which case you send him to Miami for whatever you can get.

Ideally we do this in the summer, that way we don’t end up having our pick swapped this year and it allows this team this season to try and turn it around, but if things go seriously sideways then you gotta do it soon, while Durant still has some semblance of trade value.

Sadly, I think we’d be stuck with Beal. I’m sure he’d be willing to waive his no trade clause to get out but I doubt anyone would take him, at least not until he is expiring.

We still would be at risk of giving up premium picks in the swap years but… we’re already facing that likelihood.

It would be ruthless, but good drafting and good use of the cap space we’d have relatively soon could have the team turned around far quicker than it appears we could in our current situation.

This isn’t what I’d want to do but this is a “break in case of emergency“ plan. If this gets really bad, I don’t see another way out.

The whole fail to this is JJ would have to run this successfully.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The whole fail to this is JJ would have to run this successfully.

if we're at the point that we're blowing it all up, I think JJ is part of that explosion.

 

[Mainstreet]

Interesting but it has no bearing on anything. The playoffs are determined after 82 games and we've only played 29 with 53 to go. We will either tread water at this level or continue to get worse in which case we will still be out of the playoffs or we'll figure some things out and get better and most likely back into the playoff picture. 53 games is a long way to go. We are just a little way over a third into it.

It doesn't look great now but anything can happen in the next 53 games. I'm looking forward to seeing what we look like with everybody healthy early next year. I can't imagine we can get a whole lot worse. At least now is the best time to struggle. It would be tons worse if this was happening near the end of the season.

I'm sure the minimum salaried players and two way players appreciated some extra cash from the In Season Tounament wins. All wins and losses count whether it is early in the season or late in the season.

Also it matters if the Suns are a play in team or at least clinch the 6th spot in the West.

Yeah, it may not be relevant in the end if the Suns take off and start playing like a top team but as of now it matters because it reflects how the Suns are playing.

 

[Proximo]

if we're at the point that we're blowing it all up, I think JJ is part of that explosion.

Flex and Espo were talking about Bob Meyers becoming our next GM - Obviously I think the only way he would take the job is if he gets to trade KD and Booker for assets to start over - and of course gets paid really well.

 

[Yuma]

Flex and Espo were talking about Bob Meyers becoming our next GM - Obviously I think the only way he would take the job is if he gets to trade KD and Booker for assets to start over - and of course gets paid really well.

I don't see how that would help that much, unless he's a wicked great talent evaluator. The bottom line is we have arguably two of the top ten NBA guys right now. If you can't figure out a way to make that work, then you really got no reason to coach/GM this team.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't see how that would help that much, unless he's a wicked great talent evaluator. The bottom line is we have arguably two of the top ten NBA guys right now. If you can't figure out a way to make that work, then you really got no reason to coach/GM this team.

The Warrior's drafted pretty well with him as their GM, except Wiseman but I can't knock him for that pick. He kept good talent around the Steph, Klay, Draymond core over the last decade. He'd be much better than James Jones. This team has talent now but our best players are all at their best at the same position. You can get away with running 2 SG's, that's fine, but the second SG essentially takes the spot of the SF, which is where KD is best so now he's playing up at PF. We have no true PF so KD is ok there and isn't displacing anyone. He does need to play 40 minutes a night since we don't have a good backup. These problems aren't new though, they've been a James Jones staple since he was hired in 2018.

 

[Proximo]

I don't see how that would help that much, unless he's a wicked great talent evaluator. The bottom line is we have arguably two of the top ten NBA guys right now. If you can't figure out a way to make that work, then you really got no reason to coach/GM this team.

If it won't work this season you can't make it work - what do you think we are watching.

Nothing will change - we will still only be able to sign min players and have no draft picks.

Not to mention Durant just gets a year older and his game deteriorates that much more.

If it doesn't work this season the team has to go into rebuild, there is no other logical choice.

 

[Yuma]

If it won't work this season you can't make it work - what do you think we are watching.

Nothing will change - we will still only be able to sign min players and have no draft picks.

Not to mention Durant just gets a year older and his game deteriorates that much more.

If it doesn't work this season the team has to go into rebuild, there is no other logical choice.

But that's what I am getting at. If the current GM and coach can't make it work now, who says rebuilding with them will be any different? I don't think Ishbia will tear it down this early into his tenure.

 

[Phrazbit]

But that's what I am getting at. If the current GM and coach can't make it work now, who says rebuilding with them will be any different? I don't think Ishbia will tear it down this early into his tenure.

It would be a full purge, I think that is implied.

I agree that Ishbia would not want to stomach such a plan (the arena would be damn near empty for a couple years) but if things get real ugly this year I don't think they'd have much of a choice but to take some extreme options.

 

[Hoop Head]

But that's what I am getting at. If the current GM and coach can't make it work now, who says rebuilding with them will be any different? I don't think Ishbia will tear it down this early into his tenure.

Ishbia inherited JJ. There's no reason to believe he'd keep him around if he decides this team isn't cutting it. Out with JJ and his coaching hire.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ishbia inherited JJ. There's no reason to believe he'd keep him around if he decides this team isn't cutting it. Out with JJ and his coaching hire.

I expect JJ is out sometime between tonight and the start of next season almost no matter what goes down. If JJ has been calling all the shots, Ish has good reason to fire him. If JJ hasn't been the primary decision maker, Ish is already showing he doesn't trust his judgement and is probably just counting the days before he lets him go. I believe it would already have happened if it hadn't been for the public outcry when it first leaked that Ish was hiring IT.

 

[Yuma]

I expect JJ is out sometime between tonight and the start of next season almost no matter what goes down. If JJ has been calling all the shots, Ish has good reason to fire him. If JJ hasn't been the primary decision maker, Ish is already showing he doesn't trust his judgement and is probably just counting the days before he lets him go. I believe it would already have happened if it hadn't been for the public outcry when it first leaked that Ish was hiring IT.

Maybe I am wrong, but if you are IT, do you really want to move to PHX? You really want to work when you are a millionaire? Much easier to be a consultant and not have to do the heavy lifting.