Suns hire Frank Vogel as next head coach

[NashDishesDimes]

Lets be real, Vogel shouldn't make it through the season. He's lost this team in record time. Will he make until Beal returns? Should he? I'd say no.

100%. Im not one for twitchy moves but this team is absolute trash. If he cant get them to play average defense and have some sort of offensive sets hes got to go ASAP. I think its more likely in this case than in others because the #2 candidate is still here on the staff ready to roll..

 

[Yuma]

100%. Im not one for twitchy moves but this team is absolute trash. If he cant get them to play average defense and have some sort of offensive sets hes got to go ASAP. I think its more likely in this case than in others because the #2 candidate is still here on the staff ready to roll..

Who's number 2?

 

[Town Drunk]

Who's number 2?

Young or Fizdale.

 

[Yuma]

Young or Fizdale.

The way we are playing offense, I am not so high on Young.

 

[Hoop Head]

Who's number 2?

Kevin Young was a finalist with Vogel, was retained as an assistant and made the highest paid assistant in the entire NBA. He's #2.

I say fire Vogel and Young, let Fizdale ride out the season or insert JJ as coach if he isn't canned with Vogel. He should be fired but it might be amusing to see him fail as a coach.

I believe Young was retained and made a finalist because JJ is indecisive and couldn't figure out a better plan. He chose Vogel simply because he won a title in LA recently. I don't recall other contenders circling Vogel or showing interest. It kind of tracks with his drafting and comments how there's 60 skeletons and you don't know who stands out. I believe his inability to eye talent in the draft is one of the reasons he's traded down or our of the draft since he's been the GM.

 

[Raindog]

Kevin Young was a finalist with Vogel, was retained as an assistant and made the highest paid assistant in the entire NBA. He's #2.

I say fire Vogel and Young, let Fizdale ride out the season or insert JJ as coach if he isn't canned with Vogel. He should be fired but it might be amusing to see him fail as a coach.

I believe Young was retained and made a finalist because JJ is indecisive and couldn't figure out a better plan. He chose Vogel simply because he won a title in LA recently. I don't recall other contenders circling Vogel or showing interest. It kind of tracks with his drafting and comments how there's 60 skeletons and you don't know who stands out. I believe his inability to eye talent in the draft is one of the reasons he's traded down or our of the draft since he's been the GM.

In my opinion, James Jones is the epitome of an NBA empty suit - a guy who got where he is through knowing the right people and being lucky/in the right place at the right time. And he strikes me as smug with the various pronouncements of his personnel "philosophies."

 

[Phrazbit]

In my opinion, James Jones is the epitome of an NBA empty suit - a guy who got where he is through knowing the right people and being lucky/in the right place at the right time. And he strikes me as smug with the various pronouncements of his personnel "philosophies."

I gotta disagree.

I've pointed this out before... he got the job and we were coming off being one of the worst teams in the league, he had a clear mandate to compete immediately... within 2 years we were in the finals and we still had cap space and all of our draft capital. It was a remarkable job.

Not drafting Hailberton is his only real screw up in my eyes (and it is a monumental screw up), but all things considered, I think his run from the moment he got hired and from the moment Ishbia forced the Durant trade, most of what JJ did was really strong work.

 

[Sparky16]

Kevin Young was a finalist with Vogel, was retained as an assistant and made the highest paid assistant in the entire NBA. He's #2.

I say fire Vogel and Young, let Fizdale ride out the season or insert JJ as coach if he isn't canned with Vogel. He should be fired but it might be amusing to see him fail as a coach.

I believe Young was retained and made a finalist because JJ is indecisive and couldn't figure out a better plan. He chose Vogel simply because he won a title in LA recently. I don't recall other contenders circling Vogel or showing interest. It kind of tracks with his drafting and comments how there's 60 skeletons and you don't know who stands out. I believe his inability to eye talent in the draft is one of the reasons he's traded down or our of the draft since he's been the GM.

Bubble Title dont count for squat - Vogel is trash. At the moment this team is unwatchable. I miss the twins - terrible trade.

 

[wagon mound 464]

Bubble Title dont count for squat - Vogel is trash. At the moment this team is unwatchable.

I agree with Sparky. If Vogel was so good why did the Laker's dump him?
Once the losses outnumber the wins by a wide margin, Matt I. will be reasoning this is not what he foreseen as his
investment capital is tumbling to the depths of the Western Conference standings.

 

[Hoop Head]

I gotta disagree.

I've pointed this out before... he got the job and we were coming off being one of the worst teams in the league, he had a clear mandate to compete immediately... within 2 years we were in the finals and we still had cap space and all of our draft capital. It was a remarkable job.

Not drafting Hailberton is his only real screw up in my eyes (and it is a monumental screw up), but all things considered, I think his run from the moment he got hired and from the moment Ishbia forced the Durant trade, most of what JJ did was really strong work.

All the "success" that the team has had under JJ was the result of the CP3 trade. We would be champions right now though if he actually enacted his 3x5 philosophy when he's built the roster each year but depth has been an issue at PG and PF since he came on board. He made 1 good trade, which a lot of people didn't like and no one predicted it would get use where it did. Now that the player he traded for has aged out, what are we doing? We're more lost now than pre Paul and we have no titles or assets to improve this team. Jones is a yes man riding the success of 1 move. He's not a good GM, he's a lottery winner.

 

[elindholm]

I gotta disagree.

I've pointed this out before... he got the job and we were coming off being one of the worst teams in the league, he had a clear mandate to compete immediately... within 2 years we were in the finals and we still had cap space and all of our draft capital. It was a remarkable job.

Not drafting Hailberton is his only real screw up in my eyes (and it is a monumental screw up), but all things considered, I think his run from the moment he got hired and from the moment Ishbia forced the Durant trade, most of what JJ did was really strong work.

I agree ... but Jones is young enough that he should be thinking about his long-term career prospects. The best move he could have made would have been to resign in protest after the Durant trade. Then he wouldn't have this season's stink on him, which was inevitable once he stayed on board.

 

[Mainstreet]

James Jones made some brilliant initial moves laying a foundation for the Suns, especially with the addition of Chris Paul, then sped up the plan and may have frittered the Suns future away.

The Suns had all their draft assets before the Kevin Durant trade including Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson. I wish he had kept building on the foundation rather than going for the home run.

 

[Vacard]

Remember Ishbia wanted Durant and Jones wanted to keep Bridges in the trade for Durant. Ishbia overruled Jones and made him throw in Bridges. But he’ll the scapegoat.

 

[Raindog]

All the "success" that the team has had under JJ was the result of the CP3 trade. We would be champions right now though if he actually enacted his 3x5 philosophy when he's built the roster each year but depth has been an issue at PG and PF since he came on board. He made 1 good trade, which a lot of people didn't like and no one predicted it would get use where it did. Now that the player he traded for has aged out, what are we doing? We're more lost now than pre Paul and we have no titles or assets to improve this team. Jones is a yes man riding the success of 1 move. He's not a good GM, he's a lottery winner.

This... plus Chris Paul basically forced his way here because Monty was here. I guess if someone wants to give Jones credit for anything, it should be for hiring Monty... who then attracted Paul. Unfortunately, once Chris hit the wall, so did both Monty and Jones looking like "geniuses."

Almost everything else that got the Suns where they were the last few years was in place before Jones was in charge. Maybe adding Cam Johnson was a feather for him. Maybe Crowder, too. But both were invalidated by later developments that Jones had input on or control over.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I have no problem with holding JJ accountable for the disappointments that have happened during his tenure. Fire him, fine by me. But this idea that we KNOW who did what in this organization seems unsupportable to me. With an owner like Sarver followed up by the tandem of Ishbia and Isiah Thomas, JJ is more mystery than a known quantity AFAIC. Did he do and not do the things that eventually led to this situation or did he simply allow or fail to stop those things? I don't know. Either way, he'll likely be out the door before the draft at the latest so I guess it probably doesn't matter.

 

[GatorAZ]

Bubble Title dont count for squat - Vogel is trash. At the moment this team is unwatchable. I miss the twins - terrible trade.

The Lakers won the title because their vets had two months off before a playoff run. Vogel’s been fired three times, soon to be four. I was dead wrong in thinking he was the right guy. With the way these guys play defense we might as well hired D’Antoni and gone full offensive marvel.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Lakers won the title because their vets had two months off before a playoff run. Vogel’s been fired three times, soon to be four. I was dead wrong in thinking he was the right guy. With the way these guys play defense we might as well hired D’Antoni and gone full offensive marvel.

I had been thinking the same thing about D'Antoni. At least he would have got the offense moving.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Lakers won the title because their vets had two months off before a playoff run. Vogel’s been fired three times, soon to be four. I was dead wrong in thinking he was the right guy. With the way these guys play defense we might as well hired D’Antoni and gone full offensive marvel.

Yeah, he wasn't my first choice but I still thought he was a good hire. Now, I'm not so sure. We added a bunch of players that were supposed to be on the cusp of being at least solid and none of them have come forward and that seems to be the result of poor coaching. But unfortunately, we can't go full D'Antoni style, we don't have a point guard capable of forcing tempo.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, he wasn't my first choice but I still thought he was a good hire. Now, I'm not so sure. We added a bunch of players that were supposed to be on the cusp of being at least solid and none of them have come forward and that seems to be the result of poor coaching. But unfortunately, we can't go full D'Antoni style, we don't have a point guard capable of forcing tempo.

I don't think anyone is seriously considering hiring D'Antoni, but the Suns could certainly learn how to spread the court and take the first good shot under him. The way it is now, the Suns offense is stagnant and the defense is mediocre at best.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't think anyone is seriously considering hiring D'Antoni, but the Suns could certainly learn how to spread the court and take the first good shot under him. The way it is now, the Suns offense is stagnant and the defense is mediocre at best.

Our highly advanced offensive schemes are all dependent on not getting into our offense before the defense is fully set. I think that's admirable, making sure the opponents get a fair chance to stifle us. Fortunately, we're not saddled with a bunch of strong defenders either so we don't have to worry about our D making our O look bad.

 

[Mainstreet]

Our highly advanced offensive schemes are all dependent on not getting into our offense before the defense is fully set. I think that's admirable, making sure the opponents get a fair chance to stifle us. Fortunately, we're not saddled with a bunch of strong defenders either so we don't have to worry about our D making our O look bad.

Yeah, I'd settle for getting the offense right at the moment. Teams like to run off the Suns stagnant offense. This is one part I thought they got right in the off season. The Suns could have at least kept a token point guard to experiment.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Jones isn't a GM anymore - he's a personal shopper - this roster (which I still think can work) is 100% Ishbia and co

 

[Hoop Head]

This... plus Chris Paul basically forced his way here because Monty was here. I guess if someone wants to give Jones credit for anything, it should be for hiring Monty... who then attracted Paul. Unfortunately, once Chris hit the wall, so did both Monty and Jones looking like "geniuses."

Almost everything else that got the Suns where they were the last few years was in place before Jones was in charge. Maybe adding Cam Johnson was a feather for him. Maybe Crowder, too. But both were invalidated by later developments that Jones had input on or control over.

I think the guys name was Jeff Bower, he was brought in from Detroit to help Jones find his feet as GM. Anyways, he had strong links to Cam Johnson and his family going back to Cam's first years in college so Jones doesn't get credit for that, IMO. Crowder came on board to run with CP3 and Booker and we saw how that ended, any credit Jones might have received should be entirely rescinded based on the ending to that relationship. That was Ben Simmons-esque.

 

[Raindog]

I think the guys name was Jeff Bower, he was brought in from Detroit to help Jones find his feet as GM. Anyways, he had strong links to Cam Johnson and his family going back to Cam's first years in college so Jones doesn't get credit for that, IMO. Crowder came on board to run with CP3 and Booker and we saw how that ended, any credit Jones might have received should be entirely rescinded based on the ending to that relationship. That was Ben Simmons-esque.

Now that you mention, I do recall that. I remember there was some personal connection that got Cam drafted but I thought it was with Jones himself.

 

[Hoop Head]

Just in case anyone questions the Cam Johnson connection, found this about his relationship with Jeff Bower.

It also talks about Bower's relationship with Monty from New Orleans. For real, what has Jones done on his own?

Early indications of the role SVP Jeff Bower will play in the Phoenix Suns’ front office

How the Suns’ newest basketball executive fits into this front office, with insight from people around the team.

www.brightsideofthesun.com