If this is the roster where do we stand?

[Chaplin]

Man I think I you are waaaay under-rating him. He put up 9pts and 7rebs in 16 minute per game last season. His per 36 would be 20/16. He was also our best rim protector.

Per 36 is useless and I’m surprised you’re using that as your ammo.

 

[Chaplin]

I also think discounting his impact on the team last year because he was bad in the playoffs isn’t totally fair. The entire team was awful the last 5 games of the playoffs.

The strength of our team (when it was strong) was it’s depth and he was a huge part of that. In fact, when you look at the whole season, Javale was actually the most consistent contributor off the bench. Payne was okay to awful most of the season and Cam J basically missed the last 1/3 of the season between his injury and then never being close to what he was pre-injury. Not to mention that McGee was able to step in for spot starter duty which allowed us to be 18-6 without Ayton.

Bottom line, on a team with very little size as is, he was a really productive big off the bench. That dings a team that prided itself on its depth, IMO.

We played a big team in the first round, and Javale was terrible. If you can’t play him against big teams and he can’t play vs small teams in the playoffs, then why do you want him? For the money he got, he’s overrated.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Per 36 is useless and I’m surprised you’re using that as your ammo.

It’s not really the ammo. I just used per 36 to give his production context. His numbers standing alone show how important he was. It’s the great numbers in 15 minutes per game. At 9/7 and 1 block in 15 minutes per game his numbers are close to, and many years better than, what most of our starting centers have given us for most of the history of the suns. In 15 minutes!

 

[Chaplin]

It’s not really the ammo. I just used per 36 to give his production context. His numbers standing alone show how important he was. It’s the great numbers in 15 minutes per game. At 9/7 and 1 block in 15 minutes per game his numbers are close to, and many years better than, what most of our starting centers have given us for most of the history of the suns. In 15 minutes!

And how many championships have we gotten with that production?

 

[Finito]

Per 36 is useless and I’m surprised you’re using that as your ammo.

Yeah his per 36 also includes him pretty much fouling out every game

 

[Finito]

It’s not really the ammo. I just used per 36 to give his production context. His numbers standing alone show how important he was. It’s the great numbers in 15 minutes per game. At 9/7 and 1 block in 15 minutes per game his numbers are close to, and many years better than, what most of our starting centers have given us for most of the history of the suns. In 15 minutes!

I really liked him but he disappointed me big time against the Pelicans. They have a ton of size and he really wasn’t any help.

Something had to have happen he got off to a good start in that series then fell off a cliff.

 

[Chaplin]

Don’t get me wrong, I’d be perfectly fine with bringing him back, but at that contract he got from Dallas? No way.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And how many championships have we gotten with that production?

Are you not understanding the point I’m making here, chap? That he’s given us what our starters usually gave us in 30+ minutes but in half the minutes? His production was starter level. Good starter level.

 

[Chaplin]

Are you not understanding the point I’m making here, chap? That he’s given us what our starters usually gave us in 30+ minutes but in half the minutes? His production was starter level. Good starter level.

No it wasn't. If it was starter level, he'd be a starter. He can't stay on the floor long enough to be a starter. And he damn sure didn't look to be "starter level" in the playoffs.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah his per 36 also includes him pretty much fouling out every game

Except it’s just under 6 fouls per game. So not quite. Regardless, it’s his rate of production that matters.

If you compare his rates to Ayton’s they’re stunning.

FG% - almost the same (slight edge ayton .642 to .637)
Scoring - almost the same
Assists - almost the same
Rebounds - big edge to mcgee
Blocks - big big edge mcgee
Fouls - big edge ayton
Turnovers - edge Ayton

In other words, from a scoring perspective we didn’t lose much with McGee on the floor, improved rebounding the ball and had more rim protection but worse perimeter defense.

To dismiss his production is kinda silly imo. And seems a recency bias based on playoffs.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Getting Dario back is like getting an extra facilitator on the bench. I am excited for it

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I really liked him but he disappointed me big time against the Pelicans. They have a ton of size and he really wasn’t any help.

Something had to have happen he got off to a good start in that series then fell off a cliff.

Our whole team was poor once we clinched onward. Judging any one player based on that time period seems shortsighted because we should get rid of everyone then.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No it wasn't. If it was starter level, he'd be a starter. He can't stay on the floor long enough to be a starter. And he damn sure didn't look to be "starter level" in the playoffs.

Lol. Okay, you obviously don’t understand the point I’m making. Enjoy your Sunday night.

 

[Finito]

Except it’s just under 6 fouls per game. So not quite. Regardless, it’s his rate of production that matters.

If you compare his rates to Ayton’s they’re stunning.

FG% - almost the same (slight edge ayton .642 to .637)
Scoring - almost the same
Assists - almost the same
Rebounds - big edge to mcgee
Blocks - big big edge mcgee
Fouls - big edge ayton
Turnovers - edge Ayton

In other words, from a scoring perspective we didn’t lose much with McGee on the floor, improved rebounding the ball and had more rim protection but worse perimeter defense.

To dismiss his production is kinda silly imo. And seems a decency bias based on playoffs.

No one is Dismissing his production he’s a good player in spots but he’s not a starter in the NBA anymore.

He’s not even close to the player Ayton is. This isn’t even really worth entertaining.

Your really overrating McGee.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Getting Dario back is like getting an extra facilitator on the bench. I am excited for it

If he can play on a high level it definitely helps our offense with the second team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No one is Dismissing his production he’s a good player in spots but he’s not a starter in the NBA anymore.

He’s not even close to the player Ayton is. This isn’t even really worth entertaining.

Your really overrating McGee.

Lol. NO ONE HAS CALLED HIM A STARTER. chap totally dismissed him. That’s what I’m responding to. A total dismissal. He was a valuable bench player that we don’t have anymore. If you don’t think his loss is a loss to the team I don’t know what to tell you, you’re wrong.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

If he can play on a high level it definitely helps our offense with the second team.

The bench definitely lacks willing passers right now.

 

[Finito]

Lol. NO ONE HAS CALLED HIM A STARTER. chap totally dismissed him. That’s what I’m responding to. A total dismissal. He was a valuable bench player that we don’t have anymore. If you don’t think his loss is a loss to the team I don’t know what to tell you, you’re wrong.

I never said he wasn’t valuable he def played his role well.

But what are you gonna do you can’t match the contract Dallas gave him. Good for him go get paid

 

[95pro]

Don’t forget Javale has asthma. Per 36 is useless for him. He’s productive in 15-20min a night. That’s it. Great off the bench or starter but not a finisher.

Dario is underestimated, his passing, he was almost like a point forward/center. And he could shoot the 3 or post up thinner forwards. Also underrated as a banger underneath, that may have contributed to his acl tear, at the time I thing he was banging down low on an offensive move. I think he makes an impact with both units this season and can take some of the load off of Paynes playmaking responsibilities.

 

[Chaplin]

Lol. Okay, you obviously don’t understand the point I’m making. Enjoy your Sunday night.

Jesus, really?

 

[Chaplin]

Lol. NO ONE HAS CALLED HIM A STARTER. chap totally dismissed him. That’s what I’m responding to. A total dismissal. He was a valuable bench player that we don’t have anymore. If you don’t think his loss is a loss to the team I don’t know what to tell you, you’re wrong.

Now who's misinterpreting posts?? A total dismissal -- come on Ouchie, you're better than that.

You want to whine about losing Javale and how losing him makes us so much worse, you go right ahead. We disagree, but to essentially call me a liar and an idiot probably isn't the best way to advance a conversation.

 

[elindholm]

Don’t forget Javale has asthma. Per 36 is useless for him. He’s productive in 15-20min a night. That’s it. Great off the bench or starter but not a finisher.

That's sort of like saying that a 91% free-throw shooter isn't good because he's never going to get 100 free throw attempts in a game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I never said he wasn’t valuable he def played his role well.

But what are you gonna do you can’t match the contract Dallas gave him. Good for him go get paid

Jesus. I’m just saying from purely a player perspective we are a less talented team today with his departure than we were last year. That’s it. I never said the suns should match (they could’ve with the MLE) Dallas. I never even criticized the suns for his departure. Just looking at my our talent then and now. That’s it.

 

[Covert Rain]

No it wasn't. If it was starter level, he'd be a starter. He can't stay on the floor long enough to be a starter. And he damn sure didn't look to be "starter level" in the playoffs.

Chap, I don' think you understand what is being said. In limited minutes his production was as good as Ayton's. What that means is when JaVale was playing limited minutes production remained consistent. That was huge all season long. What he did in the playoffs was not symptomatic of JaVale. It was the entire team.

Also, Dallas has penned him as their starter. He was never going to play in front of the Suns #1 pick regardless of how well he played. So, without the minutes and knowing his role you can't say ...well if he was good enough, he would start. Maybe his production drops way off as a starter next season. In Dallas we will find out soon enough. Regardless? He was one of the most effective backups this team has ever had in the FC.

 

[Chaplin]

Chap, I don' think you understand what is being said. In limited minutes his production was as good as Ayton's. What that means is when JaVale was playing limited minutes production remained consistent. That was huge all season long. What he did in the playoffs was not symptomatic of JaVale. It was the entire team.

Also, Dallas has penned him as their starter. He was never going to play in front of the Suns #1 pick regardless of how well he played. So, without the minutes and knowing his role you can't say ...well if he was good enough, he would start. Maybe his production drops way off as a starter next season. In Dallas we will find out soon enough. Regardless? He was one of the most effective backups this team has ever had in the FC.

It will. The guy is a fouling machine. Guaranteed he won't be playing more than 22 minutes per game because he simply won't be able to. He's a starter on Dallas because they don't have anyone better. Point is, he's not good enough to be a starting center unless he becomes the starter by default, which is what will happen in Dallas.