If this is the roster where do we stand?

[AzStevenCal]

I read the Pacers wouldn't part with two first round picks which belonged to Boston and Cleveland plus Myles Turner.

That's a very low asking price in a trade. They would have probably traded Turner straight up for Ayton but he was on an expiring contract. Ayton is worth much more than that.

I've read that too and similar versions but I think we were after Mathurin AND a pick in order to meet Brooklyn's trade demands. IMO we were only willing to trade DA if it led to us getting Durant.

 

[Mainstreet]

Mathurin had already signed a contract so the Pacers had no intention of trading him.

The picks, even if they were not high picks, seemed to be the key to a sign-and-trade. If true, the Suns were not asking a lot along with Myles Turner.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Mathurin had already signed a contract so the Pacers had no intention of trading him.

The picks, even if they were not high picks, seemed to be the key to a sign-and-trade. If true, the Suns were not asking a lot along with Myles Turner.

To me, Turner is like Crowder, it's arguable if either player has much of a positive trade value when considering their contracts so yeah, it was in no way compensation for Deandre. As for Mathurin, I think signing him just made him unavailable for 30 days which means he could have been moved the first week of August.

I think we were trying to get the draft picks and the young star (Mathurin or maybe Duarte) to go with the All Star level player (Bridges) the nets were demanding. If they made it clear that Mathurin was unavailable, that probably led to the reports that the Pacers had nothing of interest for us.

 

[Mainstreet]

I may have mentioned it before, but I think the Suns would have done the trade if the Pacers had packaged low salaried players like Duarte and picks for Ayton.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns still have not added a shot creator or point guard depth. This remains a concern.

Maybe the Suns hope to address it at the trade deadline if nothing is forthcoming.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I may have mentioned it before, but I think the Suns would have done the trade if the Pacers had packaged low salaried players like Duarte and picks for Ayton.

Honestly I think it was all about matching Ayton's contract if we didn't get the assets we'd need from them to facilitate the Durant trade. So is they offered us assets that interested Brooklyn the trade was on.

 

[Mainstreet]

Honestly I think it was all about matching Ayton's contract if we didn't get the assets we'd need from them to facilitate the Durant trade.

I've always viewed the Ayton trade as separate.

I think the Suns already have the contracts to do the trade with the Nets although I think more draft picks would have made the Durant trade more probable.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the Suns can't get Durant are there any realistic trades out there where the Suns can improve their roster especially in regard to shooting and play making.

A power forward like Paschall would be nice but the Suns also need another player that can create or help create shots.

 

[SirStefan32]

If the Suns can't get Durant are there any realistic trades out there where the Suns can improve their roster especially in regard to shooting and play making.

A power forward like Paschall would be nice but the Suns also need another player that can create or help create shots.

For sure. As it stands right now, the Suns are pretty much where they were last year. Losing the backup Center arguably makes them a little worse. I suppose Dario is coming back, so that may even it out in certain matcheups, but they are essentially the same team they were last year. They have got to get another player who can score, create for himself, and be able to dribble the ball at least. I really wonder if Lou Williams might be the answer. He is older, and he had a down year last season, but I really think he might be the cheapest possible solution to the Suns' main problem.

 

[Mainstreet]

For sure. As it stands right now, the Suns are pretty much where they were last year. Losing the backup Center arguably makes them a little worse. I suppose Dario is coming back, so that may even it out in certain matcheups, but they are essentially the same team they were last year. They have got to get another player who can score, create for himself, and be able to dribble the ball at least. I really wonder if Lou Williams might be the answer. He is older, and he had a down year last season, but I really think he might be the cheapest possible solution to the Suns' main problem.

I'd have no problem giving Lou Williams a look. I couldn't find much recent information about him.

 

[Covert Rain]

Considering we’ve only lost Javale, who was almost unplayable in the playoffs, we might be worse, but only marginally.

And does Dario make that up?

Without him we don’t have the season we did. He was huge last year. Unlike the previous year where when Ayton went to the bench production fell off a cliff. I could agree we are only marginally worse if not for the fact that Jock can't fill that role IMO and that's who we have as a replacement. We also lost Frank who was contributing before the injury. Maybe Saric can fill in some of those minutes.

At the end of the day we have done nothing so far to improve this roster from last year. It all seems to hinge on getting KD. In the meantime, we have seen other teams in the West get better.

 

[Muggz]

Best Team : Suns
Runner up: Who Cares

If we get competent players or someone steps up at the backup PG and PF spots we will be fine. Not 64 wins fine but we gonna be ok.
If we somehow get Durant that changes everything obviously.
I look for DA to step up
And Cam J always comes back from offseason Bigger and better.

 

[Chaplin]

Without him we don’t have the season we did. He was huge last year. Unlike the previous year where when Ayton went to the bench production fell off a cliff. I could agree we are only marginally worse if not for the fact that Jock can't fill that role IMO and that's who we have as a replacement. We also lost Frank who was contributing before the injury. Maybe Saric can fill in some of those minutes.

At the end of the day we have done nothing so far to improve this roster from last year. It all seems to hinge on getting KD. In the meantime, we have seen other teams in the West get better.

You're overrating Javale a bit. Yes, he was a great chemistry guy and put together a few good games during the regular season but he was nonexistent in the playoffs. If the Suns really wanted him, we would have resigned him. I'll agree that we haven't "improved" the roster at all, but it's only marginally worse (assuming we have a serviceable Dario Saric and getting rid of Payton is addition by subtraction).

 

[Phrazbit]

If Dario can play like he did for most of 20/21 then we won't miss JaVale. The return of "Super Dario" would be huge for the bench, he can Cam Payne had really good chemistry on the court.

 

[Covert Rain]

You're overrating Javale a bit. Yes, he was a great chemistry guy and put together a few good games during the regular season but he was nonexistent in the playoffs. If the Suns really wanted him, we would have resigned him. I'll agree that we haven't "improved" the roster at all, but it's only marginally worse (assuming we have a serviceable Dario Saric and getting rid of Payton is addition by subtraction).

We will have to disagree. Go back and look at the season before last and what happened when Ayton went to the bench. The Suns would have loved to have him back. However, with the uncertainty around Ayton and KD they were not going to commit the MLE to him. It would have put the Suns way way over the Luxury tax threshold. Plus, it's obvious he was looking for more playing time.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You're overrating Javale a bit. Yes, he was a great chemistry guy and put together a few good games during the regular season but he was nonexistent in the playoffs. If the Suns really wanted him, we would have resigned him. I'll agree that we haven't "improved" the roster at all, but it's only marginally worse (assuming we have a serviceable Dario Saric and getting rid of Payton is addition by subtraction).

Man I think I you are waaaay under-rating him. He put up 9pts and 7rebs in 16 minute per game last season. His per 36 would be 20/16. He was also our best rim protector.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We will have to disagree. Go back and look at the season before last and what happened when Ayton went to the bench. The Suns would have loved to have him back. However, with the uncertainty around Ayton and KD they were not going to commit the MLE to him. It would have put the Suns way way over the Luxury tax threshold. Plus, it's obvious he was looking for more playing time.

Eh last season was the fifth highest minutes/game he’s played in his 13 year career and most in his last four seasons.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We will have to disagree. Go back and look at the season before last and what happened when Ayton went to the bench. The Suns would have loved to have him back. However, with the uncertainty around Ayton and KD they were not going to commit the MLE to him. It would have put the Suns way way over the Luxury tax threshold. Plus, it's obvious he was looking for more playing time.

I have no idea what Dario will be when he returns but if we get Bubble Saric back then this team is potentially much better situated at the 5 spot than we've ever been IMO.

Javale was great for us early but he wasn't quite as impactful as the season wore on and he was a matchup weakness in the postseason. We'll miss him but a full season of BB and Dario should more than make up for the loss.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Man I think I you are waaaay under-rating him. He put up 9pts and 7rebs in 16 minute per game last season. His per 36 would be 20/16. He was also our best rim protector.

I also think discounting his impact on the team last year because he was bad in the playoffs isn’t totally fair. The entire team was awful the last 5 games of the playoffs.

The strength of our team (when it was strong) was it’s depth and he was a huge part of that. In fact, when you look at the whole season, Javale was actually the most consistent contributor off the bench. Payne was okay to awful most of the season and Cam J basically missed the last 1/3 of the season between his injury and then never being close to what he was pre-injury. Not to mention that McGee was able to step in for spot starter duty which allowed us to be 18-6 without Ayton.

Bottom line, on a team with very little size as is, he was a really productive big off the bench. That dings a team that prided itself on its depth, IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have no idea what Dario will be when he returns but if we get Bubble Saric back then this team is potentially much better situated at the 5 spot than we've ever been IMO.

Javale was great for us early but he wasn't quite as impactful as the season wore on and he was a matchup weakness in the postseason. We'll miss him but a full season of BB and Dario should more than make up for the loss.

You’re talking about getting a bubble Dario back… that was an 8 game stint, 2 years ago, and an ACL tear and another arthroscopic knee surgery under his belt since then.

Might be expecting a lot from Dario.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You’re talking about getting a bubble Dario back… that was an 8 game stint, 2 years ago, and an ACL tear and another arthroscopic knee surgery under his belt since then.

Might be expecting a lot from Dario.

Yeah, it might be. Between his injury and his tendency to add a few extra pounds, it's definitely not a given. But he's still fairly young and we're already paying him and with Biyombo in place, he shouldn't be as critical to our success as he was in 2021.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You're overrating Javale a bit. Yes, he was a great chemistry guy and put together a few good games during the regular season but he was nonexistent in the playoffs. If the Suns really wanted him, we would have resigned him. I'll agree that we haven't "improved" the roster at all, but it's only marginally worse (assuming we have a serviceable Dario Saric and getting rid of Payton is addition by subtraction).

Biz takes JaVale's spot. I like JaVale's hustle, but I like Biz more.

 

[Phrazbit]

Dario wasn't just good in the bubble, in the 2021 season we outscored teams by 11.2 points per 100 with him on the court. His individual stats might not pop at you but he was an important cog on that team, when he went down in the Finals it was a serious blow, our bench became far less effective.

If he comes back at even 80% of that player I think it will be a big help, and hopefully he get help Cam Payne rediscover the form he had in that season.

 

[Covert Rain]

I also think discounting his impact on the team last year because he was bad in the playoffs isn’t totally fair. The entire team was awful the last 5 games of the playoffs.

The strength of our team (when it was strong) was it’s depth and he was a huge part of that. In fact, when you look at the whole season, Javale was actually the most consistent contributor off the bench. Payne was okay to awful most of the season and Cam J basically missed the last 1/3 of the season between his injury and then never being close to what he was pre-injury. Not to mention that McGee was able to step in for spot starter duty which allowed us to be 18-6 without Ayton.

Bottom line, on a team with very little size as is, he was a really productive big off the bench. That dings a team that prided itself on its depth, IMO.

When the Suns were clicking in just a little over 15 minutes of play he was averaging 10.8 points and 7.6 rebounds on 66% shooting. To put that into perspective when the Suns were peaking Ayton was around a 111.2 offensive rating while McGee was around 111.3. You can't get more consistency off the bench that than from your back up Center. I can't remember the last time the Suns had that kind of consistently off the bench. The Suns have not had that production off the bench in a FC position for I bet at least a decade.

Book also credited JaVale with rubbing off on Ayton to be more aggressive.

“Three g*dd*mn years” were the words Booker said to Ayton after he took a high post pass and drove it right to rim for an and-one with Jakob Poeltl draped all over him.

“That’s what my man told me out loud,” Ayton said of Booker, with a chuckle. “Said I been waiting— while I was shooting the free throw too. He was like ‘man I’ve been waiting for you to do that for three years’.”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Biz takes JaVale's spot. I like JaVale's hustle, but I like Biz more.

Why?

I’m asking seriously. Biz is SOOOO much more limited offensively. Other than lobs he’s virtually useless at that end of the floor. He’s better outside the paint defensively than mcgee, but he’s not the same deterrent at the rim.