The Ayton Plan

[Mainstreet]

I think the Pacers have already signed Mathurin but they have first round picks and some lower priced players under contract that could be traded.

I'm not sure if a trade exception can be combined with draft picks but the picks might be attractive in getting Durant.

 

[Covert Rain]

And the

Also worth pointing out it is almost certain the offer sheet will include a max trade kicker(plus player option on the final year), so whether he is just after as much money as possible or just really hates the organization it's unlikely he'd reject any trade.

I found this:

If the player's original team exercises its right of first refusal within two days (by issuing a First Refusal Exercise Notice), the player is then under contract to his original team, at the principal terms of the offer sheet (but not the non-principal terms).
The principal terms of an offer sheet consist of the following. Any other terms of an offer are not considered to be principal terms, and the player's original team is not required to match:

• The number of years, including option years.5
• The base salary
• The amount of any signing bonus or deferred compensation, including the payment schedule
• Certain bonuses -- those considered to be "likely" for both teams (see question number 74), and those based on generally recognized league honors6
• Any allowable amendments such as guarantees, options and trade bonuses

So maybe a trade kicker is considered a “trade bonus”??? Maybe a kicker are allowed. Trying to find that specifically.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You don't think Mathurin, Turner and a first would get it done from our side?

But yeah, I doubt the Pacers want to pay Ayton that much money AND give up Mathurin and a pick for the right to do so.

This is why sign and trades are so hard. I do not think the Suns were under any delusion that they would get a massive sign and trade for Ayton. They knew this was the most likely scenario.

 

[SunsTzu]

I do not believe the matching teams has to include things like trade kickers and incentives on top of the base contract. It’s just a base match. I could be wrong but I believe I read that.

Unless something has changed in the most recent CBA they do. Trade kickers and player options are really the only pain points teams can apply to a max contract since the payment structure for a max contract is set in stone.

 

[somethingshesaid]

I forgot the real reason the Suns can't let DeAndre Ayton walk: Devin Booker. He was already impatient before Chris Paul joined the Suns. If Ayton leaves and then Chris Paul retires, why would Booker stay? We already know Paul is retiring in a year or two whatever happens. The only way to keep Booker happy would be to keep Ayton or bring back an improbably huge haul for him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

here's what I don't get about this. If they sign Ayton, the only way to get Durant is by giving up roughly equal salary, so what's the difference if the team has Ayton/Mikal/Crowder/Dario v. Ayton/KD - the salaries all even out. our depth would take a hit but we likely fill those in with league min guys.

Exactly. And, I think there are some valuable free agents that might take the league min to fill out that roster.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is why sign and trades are so hard. I do not think the Suns were under any delusion that they would get a massive sign and trade for Ayton. They knew this was the most likely scenario.

Yeah and it's why you can't look at the action around a restricted free agent to determine his market value or league-wide interest. Teams will tear apart their rosters to acquire a true franchise player but for someone like Ayton, not so much. They may think he's worth the max, but max plus assets is too much for almost every second tier star.

I blame the Super Max. We've gone from giving a small group of stars max contracts to now giving a small group of stars supermax money and that in turn opens the door for pretty good players to expect and demand regular max deals. Which is also why (in part) so many teams are over the Salary Cap.

 

[Covert Rain]

Well that would be a nice change. I know they did try to do away with a lot of the poison pill contract items but I hadn't heard it included trade kickers.

It appears I was wrong. After reading the rule above? Otto Porter was allowed to have a trade kicker in his contract but they say that isn’t a very big deterrent. The rule called it “trade bonus” which is considered a “Principle” condition.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Really not sure... Gambo (don't laugh), said today that if the Suns were miraculously able to keep Ayton and bring on Durant, their Tax Bill alone would be over $100M! Second only to the Warriors...

And contrary to popular opinion on Sarver, I believe we'd pay it. Robert is nowhere near the richest owner, we all know that, but the bottom line problems he was dealing with until 5 or 6 years ago mostly disappeared when the TV money went bonkers. And by all reports, they are looking at another huge boost in a couple years. Being nationally relevant is great for the bottom line at least until the repeat offender bills start piling up.

 

[Covert Rain]

I forgot the real reason the Suns can't let DeAndre Ayton walk: Devin Booker. He was already impatient before Chris Paul joined the Suns. If Ayton leaves and then Chris Paul retires, why would Booker stay? We already know Paul is retiring in a year or two whatever happens. The only way to keep Booker happy would be to keep Ayton or bring back an improbably huge haul for him.

Booker will NEVER go through another complete rebuild with this team again. He will never go back to being a bottom feeder. He will request a trade no matter what he signed on for.

If a combo of CP3/KD run is done (assuming we get KD)? Things will get interesting. The Suns are going to have to wheel and deal for another Superstar to keep Book Happy.

Bet on it that Book will never want to anchor the team by himself ever again.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah and it's why you can't look at the action around a restricted free agent to determine his market value or league-wide interest. Teams will tear apart their rosters to acquire a true franchise player but for someone like Ayton, not so much. They may think he's worth the max, but max plus assets is too much for almost every second tier star.

I blame the Super Max. We've gone from giving a small group of stars max contracts to now giving a small group of stars supermax money and that in turn opens the door for pretty good players to expect and demand regular max deals. Which is also why (in part) so many teams are over the Salary Cap.

Its also why teams that are rebuilding can roll in the dough as they get their portion of the tax money from the other teams.

 

[Covert Rain]

And contrary to popular opinion on Sarver, I believe we'd pay it. Robert is nowhere near the richest owner, we all know that, but the bottom line problems he was dealing with until 5 or 6 years ago mostly disappeared when the TV money went bonkers. And by all reports, they are looking at another huge boost in a couple years. Being nationally relevant is great for the bottom line at least until the repeat offender bills start piling up.

Keep in mind that’s not even using the MLE. I heard if they use that too it would put them way above and beyond all teams except the Warriors. I don’t know if I buy Sarver is willing to do no matter what it takes like Gambo says. Sarver has his limits too. I will take Sarvers actions over his words any day. I hope he is wiling to go all in like Jerry did with the D-backs But his history has me highly skeptical.

 

[Proximo]

Obviously, the Pacers must believe the Suns won't match.

I don't expect them to either, because ever since I heard Robert Sarver claim years ago that he makes money whether his franchise wins or not, I have assumed he is a cynical creep who doesn't care about anything but money. (Like the league itself.)

I don't know if it's obvious.

They might just think there is a 20% chance we don't, and they have very little to lose. There is no shortage of other ways they can use that cap space.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ayton signs the offer sheet. The Suns are on the clock.

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[Mainstreet]

Please no, I can't wait until Saturday night.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ayton signs the offer sheet. The Suns are on the clock.

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The Suns are just grade A a-holes to Ayton and our fans if they take 48 hours to match this.

 

[Mainstreet]

A sign-and-trade for Ayton is off the table.

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[Covert Rain]

Ayton signs the offer sheet. The Suns are on the clock.

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The Suns are just grade A a-holes to Ayton and our fans if they take 48 hours to match this.

No kidding. I mean, either you want the guy to keep, trade later or you don’t. There is no reason to let this linger.

Tick tock Suns. Don’t be asses.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns are just grade A a-holes to Ayton and our fans if they take 48 hours to match this.

It feels punitive if the Suns wait 48 hours because the Pacers are not going anywhere and a sign-and-trade is no longer an option.

 

[Mainstreet]

So here is where Ayton ranks with other centers in regard to salary.

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[Covert Rain]

It feels punitive if the Suns wait 48 hours because the Pacers are not going anywhere and a sign-and-trade is no longer an option.

That and per WOJ the Suns have every intention of matching. To me it says more to the Pacers if you do it right away. You are telling the Pacers and Ayton…we told you. That loses a little if you wait.

 

[somethingshesaid]

Booker will NEVER go through another complete rebuild with this team again. He will never go back to being a bottom feeder. He will request a trade no matter what he signed on for.

If a combo of CP3/KD run is done (assuming we get KD)? Things will get interesting. The Suns are going to have to wheel and deal for another Superstar to keep Book Happy.

Bet on it that Book will never want to anchor the team by himself ever again.

Exactly! So Ayton must be kept, in order to keep him.

 

[JerkFace]

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[Cheesebeef]

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Good. That’s the right thing to do.

 

[Mainstreet]

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YES!!!