G Will Hernandez visiting - now SIGNED

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The issue, IMO, is there isn't really an argument that our offensive line has been improved. So, at best, we are the same. Last year our offensive line was, at best, average. With that "average" offensive line Kyler got injured again and we struggled to be productive on offense at the end of the year (QB pressure was an issue).

So, we have seen where this quality of offensive line gets OUR team and OUR QB. Running it back and expecting a different result is just naïve.

Correct. We literally have not improved any area of the team except MAYBE CB if gladney pans out. If anything we have taken a step back thus far as we haven’t replaced two receivers and a rb that combined for over 3,600 yards.

 

[Stout]

Correct. We literally have not improved any area of the team except MAYBE CB if gladney pans out. If anything we have taken a step back thus far as we haven’t replaced two receivers and a rb that combined for over 3,600 yards.

He's not wrong.

 

[Stout]

The issue, IMO, is there isn't really an argument that our offensive line has been improved. So, at best, we are the same. Last year our offensive line was, at best, average. With that "average" offensive line Kyler got injured again and we struggled to be productive on offense at the end of the year (QB pressure was an issue).

So, we have seen where this quality of offensive line gets OUR team and OUR QB. Running it back and expecting a different result is just naïve.

Pretty much. Our OL wasn't garbage, but it wasn't gangbusters, especially in the IOL. We really, REALLY need our IOL to be above average at worst, with KM...not under center, but manning the QB position

 

[BritCard]

The issue, IMO, is there isn't really an argument that our offensive line has been improved. So, at best, we are the same. Last year our offensive line was, at best, average. With that "average" offensive line Kyler got injured again and we struggled to be productive on offense at the end of the year (QB pressure was an issue).

So, we have seen where this quality of offensive line gets OUR team and OUR QB. Running it back and expecting a different result is just naïve.

There were very few obvious upgrades for the O line available in FA.

La'el Collins maybe but tackle pressure hasn't been an issue so much for Kyler as he escapes that easy enough and Dallas didn't need to cut him so you have to be concerned about that hip, especially at $10m per year.

Scherff obvs but at $16.5m per year? No thanks.

The only one that stands out to me is James Daniels. He can play all interior positions and at $8.8m per I think that's good value for him. He's still only 24 too. He would have been a top target for me. Maybe Mark Glowinski too but he's no home run removed from that Indy O line.

Other than that it was generally a bunch of old guys, guys that have been really poor recently (like Saffold) or reclamation projects like Trai Turner.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Pretty much. Our OL wasn't garbage, but it wasn't gangbusters, especially in the IOL. We really, REALLY need our IOL to be above average at worst, with KM...not under center, but manning the QB position

I thought our OL was slightly above average until Josh Jones was forced into playing due to injury. Also losing Hudson for a few games really wreaked havoc on the OL and Kyler Murray during that time frame.

I'm higher on Hernandez than most. I think he will be an upgrade over Jones.

 

[Chopper0080]

There were very few obvious upgrades for the O line available in FA.

La'el Collins maybe but tackle pressure hasn't been an issue so much for Kyler as he escapes that easy enough and Dallas didn't need to cut him so you have to be concerned about that hip, especially at $10m per year.

Scherff obvs but at $16.5m per year? No thanks.

The only one that stands out to me is James Daniels. He can play all interior positions and at $8.8m per I think that's good value for him. He's still only 24 too. He would have been a top target for me. Maybe Mark Glowinski too but he's no home run removed from that Indy O line.

Other than that it was generally a bunch of old guys, guys that have been really poor recently (like Saffold) or reclamation projects like Trai Turner.

I disagree. There were plenty of options to improve the talent level of our offensive line. We just chose to pass on them for a variety of reasons. You can obviously come up with several of reasons why but that end result is that we have not improved the talent level on that unit.

The bigger problem is you can conduct the same exercise across every position group. There is not one positional group on our team that has more talent on it now than it did last year.

And to your last point, that is pretty much all that is left of the market in general so what dos that say about the remaining options that you have touted we should wait on before passing judgement?

 

[Stout]

I disagree. There were plenty of options to improve the talent level of our offensive line. We just chose to pass on them for a variety of reasons. You can obviously come up with several of reasons why but that end result is that we have not improved the talent level on that unit.

The bigger problem is you can conduct the same exercise across every position group. There is not one positional group on our team that has more talent on it now than it did last year.

And to your last point, that is pretty much all that is left of the market in general so what dos that say about the remaining options that you have touted we should wait on before passing judgement?

I mean, unless you think the draft is going to fix everything, but...lol

 

[Dayman]

The bigger problem is you can conduct the same exercise across every position group. There is not one positional group on our team that has more talent on it now than it did last year.

I think the losses in the defensive front 7 are being especially overlooked. People talk about Chandler Jones like he was the second coming of Cody Brown last year, but not replacing him with any sort of quality option thus far seems crazy to me, especially with Vance's aversion to playing rookies. Not adding to the defensive line is equally as confusing.

 

[gimpy]

^^ "especially with Vance's aversion to playing rookies." Speaking of Vance. What is his contract like? Is he signed for, "how much longer"?

Everything has been about SK and KK, and their extension. But, I haven't read anything about VJ and his contract. It's been "all quiet on the western front" concerning him. Just curious.

 

[BritCard]

I disagree. There were plenty of options to improve the talent level of our offensive line. We just chose to pass on them for a variety of reasons. You can obviously come up with several of reasons why but that end result is that we have not improved the talent level on that unit.

The bigger problem is you can conduct the same exercise across every position group. There is not one positional group on our team that has more talent on it now than it did last year.

And to your last point, that is pretty much all that is left of the market in general so what dos that say about the remaining options that you have touted we should wait on before passing judgement?

Who's going to make us better? 31 year old Andrew Norwell who even the Jags thought was garbage? I'm looking at the list of FA O line and I'm seeing very little that would be an obvious improvement.

What remaining options have I touted we wait on?

I've said sign AJ Green and Alford. Other than that I probably wouldn't do anything major in FA. Guys like Vigil and Hernandez are depth improvements for little money with upside. That's all I would do in FA. Build out the depth with cheap vets that can offer value above their deals.

I'm no fan of using FA to sign big multi year FA deals. That's what bad franchises do. More often than not the only winner in FA is the over priced player.

 

[BritCard]

I mean, unless you think the draft is going to fix everything, but...lol

Signing old, downslope players that other teams don't want (which is what the majority of FA is) is not fixing anything. It's wasting money so fans can fool themselves that they "did something".

Root out the guys that under performed on their old teams that have upside and sign them to cheap deals. Find the older guys who will sign short term deals that can still offer more than their contract value. But over priced big money FA signings rarely work out. We should know that better than anyone.

 

[oaken1]

I'm fine with not signing any big time oline guys.
I want IOL on day one of the draft.
A 22 year old with first round talent is worth way more to this team than any 28+ guy in free agency.

 

[Chopper0080]

Who's going to make us better? 31 year old Andrew Norwell who even the Jags thought was garbage? I'm looking at the list of FA O line and I'm seeing very little that would be an obvious improvement.

What remaining options have I touted we wait on?

I've said sign AJ Green and Alford. Other than that I probably wouldn't do anything major in FA. Guys like Vigil and Hernandez are depth improvements for little money with upside. That's all I would do in FA. Build out the depth with cheap vets that can offer value above their deals.

I'm no fan of using FA to sign big multi year FA deals. That's what bad franchises do. More often than not the only winner in FA is the over priced player.

Brandon Scherff
Laken Tomlinson
James Daniels
Shaq Mason (trade)
Alex Cappa
Austin Corbett

Andrew Norwell is a maybe.

All of these guys are better than what we have. Would they have costed money? Yes. Might it have been an overpayment? Possibly.

This isn't a contest to see who can save money. The NFL is a win production business. The best way to produce wins is have a top QB and have the best roster you possibly can in terms of talent. If you don't have a pipeline of young talent, then you have to possibly overspend on players in FA or trade. Those are the only ways to add talent to your roster. So far, we have done very little.

and it terms of the long term contract issues, come on. The cap is a myth and even if you think it isn't, we have 21 players under contract for 2023 with 90+ in cap room. It is disingenuous to act like paying Scherff for 3 years is gong to cripple us.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Signing old, downslope players that other teams don't want (which is what the majority of FA is) is not fixing anything. It's wasting money so fans can fool themselves that they "did something".

Root out the guys that under performed on their old teams that have upside and sign them to cheap deals. Find the older guys who will sign short term deals that can still offer more than their contract value. But over priced big money FA signings rarely work out. We should know that better than anyone.

Ladies and gentlemen, now introducing your Filene’s Basement Cardinals!

 

[DVontel]

We’re really gonna go into the season with Will Hernandez as the starter at RG, aren’t we?

 

[BritCard]

We’re really gonna go into the season with Will Hernandez as the starter at RG, aren’t we?

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[BritCard]

Weird.

I do not remember this much consternation when the initial depth chart for right guard last year was Justin Murray, Brian Winters and Max Garcia.

The Week 1 depth chart was Josh Jones and Brian Winters.

I think Hernandez, Jones and Murray are an improvement but apparently that's just me.

 

[WeBlitz]

Weird.

I do not remember this much consternation when the initial depth chart for right guard last year was Justin Murray, Brian Winters and Max Garcia.

The Week 1 depth chart was Josh Jones and Brian Winters.

I think Hernandez, Jones and Murray are an improvement but apparently that's just me.

Because it’s just based off of hope. Hope is good! You need hope! However, that’s what you’re only basing it off. Everything else is false equivalency.

Hernandez has been a bad football player for years now. You can blame the Giants’ organization for his own abilities, or lack thereof all you want to, but the fact of the matter is he has been no better than our RGs. Arguably even worse.

Jones was a disaster at RG. We all know this.

Murray is coming back from back injury. He might not ever be the same as he was prior to injury. That’s banking on a lot.

 

[BritCard]

Because it’s just based off of hope. Hope is good! You need hope! However, that’s what you’re only basing it off. Everything else is false equivalency.

Hernandez has been a bad football player for years now. You can blame the Giants’ organization for his own abilities, or lack thereof all you want to, but the fact of the matter is he has been no better than our RGs. Arguably even worse.

Jones was a disaster at RG. We all know this.

Murray is coming back from back injury. He might not ever be the same as he was prior to injury. That’s banking on a lot.

Except it's not based off hope.

Almost the entire opinion of Hernandez is based off PFF stats. Or the opinions of Giants blogs who gained that opinion from looking at PFF stats.

Hernandez's biggest problem is picking up stunts and if he's uncovered and goes looking for work he forgets he's still responsible for that gap if any late rushers join the party because he plays in front of a QB that holds the ball too long. Both things that can be remedied.

 

[PACardsFan]

Except it's not based off hope.

Almost the entire opinion of Hernandez is based off PFF stats. Or the opinions of Giants blogs who gained that opinion from looking at PFF stats.

Hernandez's biggest problem is picking up stunts and if he's uncovered and goes looking for work he forgets he's still responsible for that gap if any late rushers join the party because he plays in front of a QB that holds the ball too long. Both things that can be remedied.

I agree. I also believe that not only does he know Kugler from UTEP days, Kugler is a significantly better OL coach than anything he had in NY. For me, I’ll wait until the season actually starts to decide if this signing pans out.

 

[Chopper0080]

Except it's not based off hope.

Almost the entire opinion of Hernandez is based off PFF stats. Or the opinions of Giants blogs who gained that opinion from looking at PFF stats.

Hernandez's biggest problem is picking up stunts and if he's uncovered and goes looking for work he forgets he's still responsible for that gap if any late rushers join the party because he plays in front of a QB that holds the ball too long. Both things that can be remedied.

The counter argument is that if it hasn't been remedied in 4 years as a pro, why would it just change now. And before we cite Kugler as the reason, what young lineman has he developed since he has come to AZ that is an example of what he can do with Hernandez?

 

[BritCard]

The counter argument is that if it hasn't been remedied in 4 years as a pro, why would it just change now. And before we cite Kugler as the reason, what young lineman has he developed since he has come to AZ that is an example of what he can do with Hernandez?

It's not 4 years though is it? To use the only available metric we have he had pass pro grades in the 70's the first 2 years in the league. That's better than anyone on the O line except Pugh last year.

And why are you arguing the point? It was your suggestion we should sign him for his upside and one of the arguments YOU made was Kugler getting more out of him.

What 26 year old linemen have we signed since Kugler came in 2019? You could argue Hump has got better, certainly had his best year.

Sweezy was 29 turning 30.
Gaillard and Miles were 6th and 7th round picks.
Max Garcia was 29.
Beachum was 30.
And Josh Jones.

That's it. The only young players with any kind of talent coming out he's had are Josh Jones, Hump and now Hernandez.

 

[Syracusecards]

Except it's not based off hope.

Almost the entire opinion of Hernandez is based off PFF stats. Or the opinions of Giants blogs who gained that opinion from looking at PFF stats.

Hernandez's biggest problem is picking up stunts and if he's uncovered and goes looking for work he forgets he's still responsible for that gap if any late rushers join the party because he plays in front of a QB that holds the ball too long. Both things that can be remedied.

Where did you get this information? Do you have a link?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Weird.

I do not remember this much consternation when the initial depth chart for right guard last year was Justin Murray, Brian Winters and Max Garcia.

The Week 1 depth chart was Josh Jones and Brian Winters.

I think Hernandez, Jones and Murray are an improvement but apparently that's just me.

I’m guessing it’s because we were all hoping jones would prove worthy of his third round selection. He didn’t. And now we know that. We do know hernandez played on a much worse offensive line than our’s last year and that he made an all rookie team, but also that he wasn’t exactly a hot commodity for a league starving for good olinemen, so jury is out. And can’t really count on a dude that missed virtually entire prior season.

 

[BritCard]

Where did you get this information? Do you have a link?

I first saw it commented on by various Giants bloggers like below so I watched some of the sacks that PFF recorded against him and a bunch of them were stunts or late rushes. He's very hungry to go looking for work if he's not got someone immediately up against him but once he engages someone else he locks on and forgets he's still responsible for his own gap.

Some of it wasn't helped by having a QB holding the ball forever but it is a problem for him.

If you watch the 2nd half of the Miami game last year with Glennon at QB you will see a couple, although I think the 2nd is harsh. On the first he goes over to help the center and completely misses the stunt from Ogbah (I think). On the 2nd he pulls to take on Jaelen Philips but them Glennon moves out of the pocket making it much easier for Philips to find an angle to the QB and then holds the ball for eternity.

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