Cardinals @ Rams postgame thread

[Arz101]

This is Colts Grigson playing out here. Before Murray is done and there is something to salvage, Bidwill needs to clean house. I mean everyone on contracts from GM, HC, VPs etc ( of Adrian Wilson has to go so be it) needs to be **** canned..

But they will not...

 

[tnmike]

While many of you cry on forums, Bidwill all last night.

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And what is wrong with making a profit? They spent practically all of the salary cap and then some.

 

[Arz101]

And what is wrong with making a profit? They spent practically all of the salary cap and then some.

There is nothing wrong it. Bidwill should be happy doesn't mean he cares a **** about product on the field. The salary cap you talk about, you know, all teams have to spend it sooner than later.

 

[tnmike]

There is nothing wrong it. Bidwill should be happy doesn't mean he cares a **** about product on the field. The salary cap you talk about, you know, all teams have to spend it sooner than later.

nonsense

 

[Arz101]

Baby Yoda.

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[MrYeahBut]

The case brought before the court should be criminal, not civil, well unless you want the civil case to get your money back.

 

[AZman5103]

There's a grand jury on him right now. Grand juries decide what to charge someone with. If he did nothing wrong yes he won't face jail time, if he did something wrong he'll face jail time. There are 22 women involved, Watson's attorney says all 22 are lying. Last report I can find said at least 10 of the women have filed police reports/complaints against Watson.

It sounds dumb but it's simple, if 22 women decided to lie about this then he's probably in the clear, if any of them are telling the truth he's going to be in trouble. The NFL would suspend him, the grand jury will try him etc.

So Im not an expert, but from what I read here is the deal.

22 women joined the civil suit. 10 women filed police reports, but all but 2 of those criminal accusations didn't hold water. The 2 that seemed credible are being investigated and will go to the grand jury, but the most likely outcome is a misdemeanor charge that can be pled away. Watson and his attorney have said from day 1 that he hasn't done anything wrong, and will not take a plea deal. He said the first accuser demanded a six figure "settlement" before she went public and he refused, calling it extortion.

I don't think Watson is a good upstanding guy, but I'm not sure he has done anything criminal. He is probably looking at an 8 game suspension from the league and a PR issue....but I think he will play again. It's not a Henry Ruggs situation.

 

[MrYeahBut]

I can't remember the last time I actually turned off a Cards game before half time. Well, I did last night and watched a Nordic Noir serial killer series. Murderers were decidedly more uplifting than watching that game.

 

[UncleChris]

The Bidwill's and the Cards remind me in a bad way of the Ford Family and the Detroit Lions..... These families simply have, IMHO, bad mojo. The best thing for these two teams is to find new owners.

The last time the Lions won a championship was 1957. The Cards was 1947(!!!)

 

[Dr. Jones]

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[BritCard]

There's a grand jury on him right now. Grand juries decide what to charge someoen with. If he did nothing wrong yes he won't face jail time, if he did something wrong he'll face jail time. There are 22 women involved, Watson's attorney says all 22 are lying. Last report I can find said at least 10 of the women have filed police reports/complaints against Watson.

It sounds dumb but it's simple, if 22 women decided to lie about this then he's probably in the clear, if any of them are telling the truth he's going to be in trouble. The NFL would suspend him, the grand jury will try him etc.

He won't go to jail. Of the 22 "accusers" there are only 2 allegations of sexual assault. The rest are all "Well he asked/tried but I said no/left", there's no criminal charges there.

Of the two that remain they allege he "pressured them into performing oral sex". Last I checked, it's not illegal to pressure someone and ultimately they agreed. They were not forced. He wasn't in a privileged position. He wasn't their boss. They didn't rely on him for employment. Neither accuse him of forcing them.

At worse, and even that's a long shot. He's looking at misdemeanor incident assault. In a he said, she said case like this I doubt it even comes to that.

Would I have him as our QB? Sure. If he's found not guilty of anything that's the end of it. I care my QB can hit a 30 yard seam pass over a linebacker, less so how he gets off. I wouldn't let my daughter massage him though.

 

[Russ Smith]

So Im not an expert, but from what I read here is the deal.

22 women joined the civil suit. 10 women filed police reports, but all but 2 of those criminal accusations didn't hold water. The 2 that seemed credible are being investigated and will go to the grand jury, but the most likely outcome is a misdemeanor charge that can be pled away. Watson and his attorney have said from day 1 that he hasn't done anything wrong, and will not take a plea deal. He said the first accuser demanded a six figure "settlement" before she went public and he refused, calling it extortion.

I don't think Watson is a good upstanding guy, but I'm not sure he has done anything criminal. He is probably looking at an 8 game suspension from the league and a PR issue....but I think he will play again. It's not a Henry Ruggs situation.

If you have a link that would be great I can't find anything that says all but 2 of the cases were dismissed by the police?

The other thing is the lawyer for the 22 people said that 10 of them were filing police cases and that he believed most of the others were considering it too but waiting to see what happens with the civil case and the grand jury. This is one of those situations where it's quite common for women who actually were victims, and I don't know the truth in THIS one, drop out anyways because they just don't want to go through with the whole drama of a court case. It just seems so unlikely that TWENTY TWO women, many of whom do not know each other before this, decided en masse to go after Watson. I know the obvious signs a new huge deal, few months later says he wants to be traded and then these charges start coming out so I could believe 1 or a few women just decided he's rich now I'm going to go after his money, but 22 of them?

It just seems like because of the pandemic something changed for Watson, like he couldn't get the usual access to women he was used to, decided to use massage services and when word got out that a couple of women had complained, suddenly a whole lot said he did the same thing to me? I think that's just as believable if not moreso than 22 women just decided to make up charges against him to extort money.

But I guess we'll see where the grand jury goes when you google it multiple stories keep saying no criminal charges have been filed which makes it sound like it's over when that really just means because the grand jury hasn't finished. There may be charges there may not but the reason there's none so far is the grand jury is still doing their job

 

[Minski]

Baby Yoda.

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Yeah but they don’t understand anything do they Kyler? That boy needs to grow up and get his head out of his ass and realise he isn’t the finished product yet

 

[Crimson Warrior]

What if, hypothetically, Kliff could get +3 victories for the 2022 season vs. 2021? That is, if you knew he would go 14-3 next year. Would that change your conclusion? Or would you still can him?

 

[imaCafan]

I can't remember the last time I actually turned off a Cards game before half time. Well, I did last night and watched a Nordic Noir serial killer series. Murderers were decidedly more uplifting than watching that game.

I watched one game this season, fearing that the talking heads were right and they were just a mirage. It was the GB game. I feared at the end of the game this would be the season outcome, haven't watched since. BP goes up too high....

 

[Stout]

I can't remember the last time I actually turned off a Cards game before half time. Well, I did last night and watched a Nordic Noir serial killer series. Murderers were decidedly more uplifting than watching that game.

Ooh, what series?

 

[Russ Smith]

He won't go to jail. Of the 22 "accusers" there are only 2 allegations of sexual assault. The rest are all "Well he asked/tried but I said no/left", there's no criminal charges there.

Of the two that remain they allege he "pressured them into performing oral sex". Last I checked, it's not illegal to pressure someone and ultimately they agreed. They were not forced. He wasn't in a privileged position. He wasn't their boss. They didn't rely on him for employment. Neither accuse him of forcing them.

At worse, and even that's a long shot. He's looking at misdemeanor incident assault. In a he said, she said case like this I doubt it even comes to that.

Would I have him as our QB? Sure. If he's found not guilty of anything that's the end of it. I care my QB can hit a 30 yard seam pass over a linebacker, less so how he gets off. I wouldn't let my daughter massage him though.

Depending on the circumstances it actually CAN be against the law to pressure someone like that if you're paying them for a massage and pressure them into something they can easily claim later they were coerced.

I just think the sheer number of women is working against him, even if the courts do decide as you said the NFL is still looking at a guy who had 22 complaints, apparently some confirmed as to he coerced them, I can't see them just saying ok he already missed a season that's good enough?

If there's really a grand jury jail is clearly possible, the reason they convene grand juries is they want to accelerate the case, and Grand juries are completely secret. If the GJ finds Watson innocent none of what was said in the testimony gets out, the accusers don't get paraded through the media, witnesses are not made public. and the prosecution has more control so they can get to a conclusion faster which in most cases benefits both parties.

But I can't find anything more current than early Dec and that was just Watson's lawyer saying we're very confident and not saying why beyond my client is a good guy

 

[Stout]

What if, hypothetically, Kliff could get +3 victories for the 2022 season vs. 2021? That is, if you knew he would go 14-3 next year. Would that change your conclusion? Or would you still can him?

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas. Better question: Right now, based on the current situation and his body of work, would you fire, retain, or extend him?

 

[FB94]

The Bidwill's and the Cards remind me in a bad way of the Ford Family and the Detroit Lions..... These families simply have, IMHO, bad mojo. The best thing for these two teams is to find new owners.

The last time the Lions won a championship was 1957. The Cards was 1947(!!!)

Can’t argue with this. Something is just amiss, always

 

[FB94]

Yeah but they don’t understand anything do they Kyler? That boy needs to grow up and get his head out of his ass and realise he isn’t the finished product yet

Agree, his physical skills are great, but the mental side is far from finished

 

[BritCard]

Depending on the circumstances it actually CAN be against the law to pressure someone like that if you're paying them for a massage and pressure them into something they can easily claim later they were coerced.

I just think the sheer number of women is working against him, even if the courts do decide as you said the NFL is still looking at a guy who had 22 complaints, apparently some confirmed as to he coerced them, I can't see them just saying ok he already missed a season that's good enough?

If there's really a grand jury jail is clearly possible, the reason they convene grand juries is they want to accelerate the case, and Grand juries are completely secret. If the GJ finds Watson innocent none of what was said in the testimony gets out, the accusers don't get paraded through the media, witnesses are not made public. and the prosecution has more control so they can get to a conclusion faster which in most cases benefits both parties.

But I can't find anything more current than early Dec and that was just Watson's lawyer saying we're very confident and not saying why beyond my client is a good guy

I don't think the number matters. There's no criminal complaint in 20 of them. Most of them would not want to get involved and wouldn't testify and that's if any were even allowed to as how are they legally relevant? There's no crime. It's not illegal to ask for sexual favors and be declined.

I don't see it going anywhere from what I have read. Unless there are things that are not yet in the public domain.

 

[MrYeahBut]

Ooh, what series?

Pagan Peak on Prime (Der Pass), not exactly Nordic but same type of story line and of course, lots of snow..... It's actually German from the same production company as Babylon Berlin if you've seen that. I've watched like every one I could find on Prime and Netflix, probably 20 series or more.

OT, but right now after last night's performance, it's hard to get me to care

Spoiler: trailer

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[AZman5103]

What if, hypothetically, Kliff could get +3 victories for the 2022 season vs. 2021? That is, if you knew he would go 14-3 next year. Would that change your conclusion? Or would you still can him?

If that were the case I would keep him, because looking at our schedule that would probably mean we had vastly improved. Also, it would say that there wasnt the typical late season collapse (unless we started 14-0 and then lost 3 heading into the playoffs).

In reality I think its unrealistic to expect us to win 11 again next year. We should have lost to the Vikings. I dont see us sweeping the 49ers next year. The Rams now have our number. Our home record was garbage. Lots of reasons to think that we would need to make big improvements just to keep 11 wins in site and a wildcard birth.

If Seattle blows it up then that helps us in the short term, but we still have an extremely tough division, and at least on paper and extremely tough schedule.

Bottom line is that Kliff and Kyler both will not get any trust that they can win a big game until they actually do it. So far they are terrible.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't think the number matters. There's no criminal complaint in 20 of them. Most of them would not want to get involved and wouldn't testify and that's if any were even allowed to as how are they legally relevant? There's no crime. It's not illegal to ask for sexual favors and be declined.

I don't see it going anywhere from what I have read. Unless there are things that are not yet in the public domain.

in the SI story on this way back they said at least 4 of the complaints said he forced himself on them either by kissing them or forcing oral sex. That's not asking and being refused that's attempting to force someone to do something, that's a crime if it's true. The original story said there were also issues because he paid many of them to come from out of state, and that because he pays them even just asking not forcing is sexual harassment and he apparently forced several of them or at least tried to. THere were even complaints against him that happened AFTER the original lawsuits were filed before it became public.

Apparently part of this story from what SI said is that in one of the filings they said Watson has paid as many as 50 women and some of them were NOT massage therapists so it sounds like he was both using call girls/prostitutes and massage therapists but expecting the massage women to do what the call girls did.

Because they are civil cases I don't think anywhere near all the details are clear yet and the grand jury case as I said elsewhere that's sealed, it's intended to be totally private that's why they use a grand jury.

We will see but the story as it is now just makes no sense. If they were all call girls I could believe someone got the bright idea of alleging he assaulted her to extort money and then a bunch of others saw the opportunity since he just got a big contract and decided to do the same thing. But apparently most of the complaints are NOT from call girls in fact I don't think any of them are most of them are from LICENSED massage therapists, some are unlicensed and it seems presumed to be probably escorts who just call themselves massage therapists for legal reasons.

 

[Russ Smith]

So Im not an expert, but from what I read here is the deal.

22 women joined the civil suit. 10 women filed police reports, but all but 2 of those criminal accusations didn't hold water. The 2 that seemed credible are being investigated and will go to the grand jury, but the most likely outcome is a misdemeanor charge that can be pled away. Watson and his attorney have said from day 1 that he hasn't done anything wrong, and will not take a plea deal. He said the first accuser demanded a six figure "settlement" before she went public and he refused, calling it extortion.

I don't think Watson is a good upstanding guy, but I'm not sure he has done anything criminal. He is probably looking at an 8 game suspension from the league and a PR issue....but I think he will play again. It's not a Henry Ruggs situation.

FYI found an article in NY Post that says people are saying Watson may end up playhing for Brian Flores and if the Texans hire Flores, they wouldn't trade Watson. In the article it says one of the big concerns teams have is they're waiting on the charges because they are afraid more legal charges will be filed later. Sounds like maybe some of the women are waiting to see what comes out of the grand jury before they decide whether or not to file criminal charges themselves

Deshaun Watson, newly-fired Brian Flores want to team up in 2022

As the Giants focus on filling one major hole, a potential joint solution to two others is beginning to formulate.

nypost.com