PFT on Kliff

[Zeno]

A lot of folks on here wanted MIKE MCCARTHY!

This place is always all over the place on hirings/firings.

I think about the only thing that this board was on near total agreement back then was Wilkes needed to go--if I remember right the last poll taken had everyone but 2 people wanting Wilkes fired.

 

[PACardsFan]

This place is always all over the place on hirings/firings.

I think about the only thing that this board was on near total agreement back then was Wilkes needed to go--if I remember right the last poll taken had everyone but 2 people wanting Wilkes fired.

Wilks

 

[Zeno]

Wilks

He doesn't even deserve his name spelled correctly

 

[BritCard]

Let me help you out here, shall I? Let's say Kliff had more interest in recruiting and let's say that we are able to affirm that he also had great recruiting skills just for shrills and giggles in a censored Austin Power's kind of way. Guess what? He still would be scraping the bottle of the barrel recruiting because he represents freaking Texas Tech. You really really really think any kid in Texas or anywhere for that matter is going to choose Texas Tech over say Texas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, LSU, Alabama or even Colorado St. for example if they are a high recruit. Kliff had ultimately bad recruits because of the program he coached did not have the legacy or prestige to garner better talent. I also doubt but could be wrong that you and Solar possibly never even watched a full Texas Tech game (just like most recruits) to say you see the same guy because you are only looking at stats

He doesn't need to recruit those players. He needed to recruit the ones that went to UTEP, or North Texas, or Bowling Green, or Vandy, or all the othe rmiddle of the road schools that had significantly better defenses than TTU.

 

[BritCard]

A lot of folks on here wanted MIKE MCCARTHY!

And?

The Cowboys had 2 wins less than us last season while missing Dak for 11 games, La'el Collins the whole season. Cam Erving for 11 games. Travis Frederick for 7 games. Tyron Smith for 12 games and LVE for 7. They were playing 3rd string O lines and 2nd string QB most of the season. With a completely new scheme and coaching staff. Granted they were in a garbage division but that's a lot to contend with.

Funny how a guy with a 131-87 record is suddenly considered worse than Kliff because he went 6-10 with all that going on.

 

[kerouac9]

Most fans are win now; the NFL is a win now league. Modern free agency and tiering the pay scale for draft picks very much made it so. Teams just don't have the leeway to grow in tiny increments over many seasons because they would constantly be bailing out water on a sinking ship; you build one area of the team but FA drains another. It's very much the nature of the NFL biz.

And it isn't hindsight with KK. A lot of folks didn't like this hire from day one.

I don't know. It didn't seem like Brian Flores was under a lot of pressure to win now in Miami. Weirdly, Zac Taylor doesn't seem to have a very hot seat going into this season. I don't think that Urban Meyer's seat is gonna be hot if the Jags go 6-11 this year.

Kyler was so good off the bat that he recalibrated the building timeline for this franchise. Patrick Mahomes took the reins of a team that was 10-6 the season prior. The Baltimore Ravens team that Larmar Jackson was dropped into was 10-6 under Is Joe Flacco Elite? That wasn't the situation that Kyler Murray was dropped into, and it shouldn't be the expectations for Kliff Kingsbury.

Now, the fair question to ask starting now is whether Kingsbury is a better head coach than Bill O'Brien. I'm a Kliff fan, but that's a tough one for me to answer right now.

 

[DVontel]

I get the feeling this thread will be another deja-vu with the next HC.

While still having the same GM.

 

[kerouac9]

I get the feeling this thread will be another deja-vu with the next HC.

While still having the same GM.

To an extent, this is always the conversation. You can't fire all the players, you can't fire the owner, and the owner doesn't want to fire the GM.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don't know. It didn't seem like Brian Flores was under a lot of pressure to win now in Miami. Weirdly, Zac Taylor doesn't seem to have a very hot seat going into this season. I don't think that Urban Meyer's seat is gonna be hot if the Jags go 6-11 this year.

Kyler was so good off the bat that he recalibrated the building timeline for this franchise. Patrick Mahomes took the reins of a team that was 10-6 the season prior. The Baltimore Ravens team that Larmar Jackson was dropped into was 10-6 under Is Joe Flacco Elite? That wasn't the situation that Kyler Murray was dropped into, and it shouldn't be the expectations for Kliff Kingsbury.

Now, the fair question to ask starting now is whether Kingsbury is a better head coach than Bill O'Brien. I'm a Kliff fan, but that's a tough one for me to answer right now.

Bill O'Brien the coach was never the problem.

I find this all really hilarious. The same people complaining about the talent on the team, also say that Kliff is a terrible coach. Terrible talent + terrible coach DOES NOT equal 8-8.

Its just nonsensically bad series of takes. The reality is a lot more nuanced. I think Kliff CAN be a good coach; I don't think Keim can be a good GM. We've see quite a few offensive wrinkles that were pretty smart. And with Murray, this team will be in a lot of games. On the flipside, the team isn't particularly disciplined and Kliff does tend to wait too long to change his offense when certain aspects aren't working. My belief is that the offense last year was hindered by the weak interior offensive line, an average RB, and Murray's inability to even be average on intermediate level passes (Murray was a BOTTOM THREE passer on intermediate passes). Despite these weaknesses, the Cardinals had a fairly good offense, which would point to Kliff's ability to build a good offense despite glaring weaknesses.

Keim misses too often in the draft and that causes him to have to make up this shortfall with expensive free agents and trades. Keim is decent in free agency, but this will mean the team will never be able to have a cheap payroll.

 

[Krangodnzr]

And?

The Cowboys had 2 wins less than us last season while missing Dak for 11 games, La'el Collins the whole season. Cam Erving for 11 games. Travis Frederick for 7 games. Tyron Smith for 12 games and LVE for 7. They were playing 3rd string O lines and 2nd string QB most of the season. With a completely new scheme and coaching staff. Granted they were in a garbage division but that's a lot to contend with.

Funny how a guy with a 131-87 record is suddenly considered worse than Kliff because he went 6-10 with all that going on.

Forest for the trees bro.

The Cowboys played 6 games against the NFC East.

McCarthy's entire career was built on the greatness of Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre. Look at what Rodgers thought of McCarthy. Look at what the Cowboys players thought of McCarthy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Forest for the trees bro.

The Cowboys played 6 games against the NFC East.

McCarthy's entire career was built on the greatness of Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre. Look at what Rodgers thought of McCarthy. Look at what the Cowboys players thought of McCarthy.

Im no McCarthy fan and didn’t want him, but we played 4 games against the NFC East as well, which probably explains why we were 8-8.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Terrible talent + terrible coach DOES NOT equal 8-8.

Nope, but average talent, a bad head coach, and a cake schedule can certainly equal 8-8...we saw it last year.

This season, like the last, will be completely dependent on Kyler to take this team to the next level. Hopefully he drags KK and Keim along with him, because there will be plenty of regret if we waste Kyler's rookie contract.

It's just hard to look at last year and not see coaching as an obvious and glaring problem. The Rams game was really the KK magnum opus - maybe people are forgetting how terribly that game was bungled?

Is it possible to win a division where you have obviously the worst head coach? I guess we'll find out.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Nope, but average talent, a bad head coach, and a cake schedule can certainly equal 8-8...we saw it last year.

This season, like the last, will be completely dependent on Kyler to take this team to the next level. Hopefully he drags KK and Keim along with him, because there will be plenty of regret if we waste Kyler's rookie contract.

It's just hard to look at last year and not see coaching as an obvious and glaring problem. The Rams game was really the KK magnum opus - maybe people are forgetting how terribly that game was bungled?

Is it possible to win a division where you have obviously the worst head coach? I guess we'll find out.

NOPE don't buy that average talent and a bad head coach will get you 8-8 in nearly any situation. Still doesn't fully make sense at all.

Kyler is a MASSIVE liability throwing the ball 10-18 yards down the field, which is the bread and butter range for nearly every offense. Teams began squatting the short zones and pressuring Kyler so he couldn't throw deep. That's one of the main reasons the Cardinals struggled down the stretch. So the concept that Kyler will drag this team isn't quite true at all, he was one of the main reasons the team struggled.

Outside of CB, this team looks like it doesn't have too many holes so this year Kliff can't make excuses if his scheme isn't working. He doesn't have slug footed Larry Fitzgerald missing blocks constantly for bubble screens. He doesn't have Mason Cole getting blown up play after play. This is the season to really judge Kliff.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Im no McCarthy fan and didn’t want him, but we played 4 games against the NFC East as well, which probably explains why we were 8-8.

And so did the Rams who also lost the Jets.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And so did the Rams who also lost the Jets.

okay.

 

[BritCard]

Forest for the trees bro.

The Cowboys played 6 games against the NFC East.

McCarthy's entire career was built on the greatness of Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre. Look at what Rodgers thought of McCarthy. Look at what the Cowboys players thought of McCarthy.

Which coach didn't build a career on the back of a great or multiple great quarterbacks? BB just lost Brady and had his first losing season in decades. Is he trash now?

Good coaches turn good QB's into winning seasons. Something Kliff hasn't done.

It's highly disingenuous to suggest McCarthy had nothing to do with winning in Green Bay.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

NOPE don't buy that average talent and a bad head coach will get you 8-8 in nearly any situation. Still doesn't fully make sense at all.

It does when you have a guy like Kyler running around out there like an MVP, as he did many times early in the season. Kyler gets injured, regression to the mean.

Kyler is a MASSIVE liability throwing the ball 10-18 yards down the field, which is the bread and butter range for nearly every offense. Teams began squatting the short zones and pressuring Kyler so he couldn't throw deep. That's one of the main reasons the Cardinals struggled down the stretch. So the concept that Kyler will drag this team isn't quite true at all, he was one of the main reasons the team struggled.

A MASSIVE liability? Maybe in 2019, but not in 2020. Since you brought the stat up, here's some more context around it:

"in Murray’s defense he did improve drastically from ‘19 to ‘20 when his PFF grade was 53.4 and in ‘20 it went up to 75.5 throwing in the 10-19 yard range."

Again, of all the things to hone in on for us struggling down the stretch, I didn't have Kyler in the intermediate as a major problem, but there are plenty of examples of scheme being an issue with this current staff. If you want to put it on Kyler, that's up to you.

This is the season to really judge Kliff.

You're right, who cares if we're the most penalized team in the league, or if we looked routinely confused, or if we're getting procedure penalties in EMPTY STADIUMS WITH NO NOISE. Let's just completely ignore the fact that this team had a gilded path to the playoffs last year and blew it.

 

[Jetstream Green]

He doesn't need to recruit those players. He needed to recruit the ones that went to UTEP, or North Texas, or Bowling Green, or Vandy, or all the othe rmiddle of the road schools that had significantly better defenses than TTU.

I am glad I was not drinking anything when I read that... if you do not see the massive illogical citing of those schools and who Tech then has to play there is nothing I can say lol

 

[HomerPimpson]

This place is always all over the place on hirings/firings.

I think about the only thing that this board was on near total agreement back then was Wilkes needed to go--if I remember right the last poll taken had everyone but 2 people wanting Wilkes fired.

Name them and drag them.

 

[cardncubfan]

NOPE don't buy that average talent and a bad head coach will get you 8-8 in nearly any situation. Still doesn't fully make sense at all.

Kyler is a MASSIVE liability throwing the ball 10-18 yards down the field, which is the bread and butter range for nearly every offense. Teams began squatting the short zones and pressuring Kyler so he couldn't throw deep. That's one of the main reasons the Cardinals struggled down the stretch. So the concept that Kyler will drag this team isn't quite true at all, he was one of the main reasons the team struggled.

Outside of CB, this team looks like it doesn't have too many holes so this year Kliff can't make excuses if his scheme isn't working. He doesn't have slug footed Larry Fitzgerald missing blocks constantly for bubble screens. He doesn't have Mason Cole getting blown up play after play. This is the season to really judge Kliff.

Shut your mouth! Blasphemy!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Shut your mouth! Blasphemy!

It's just easie to point blame at KK than to look at the nuances.

Kyler was the third worse QB in the NFL throwing medium range passes...

 

[Stout]

It's just easie to point blame at KK than to look at the nuances.

Kyler was the third worse QB in the NFL throwing medium range passes...

You're...wait, let's get this straight...you're saying KYLER was the reason we didn't make the playoffs? HE'S the reason to blame for the bad play calling, the turtling at the end of games, the lack of discipline, the mismanagement of the defense? That stuff doesn't fall on the head coach?

Nuance schmuance. You literally just defended KK and his bungling of the head coaching gig by throwing KM under the bus.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It's just easie to point blame at KK than to look at the nuances.

Lol, you've gone really in depth here Krang, the same silly stat which is completely irrelevant to the conversation about KK. (while addressing none of the obvious issues mentioned)

Keep finding that nuance though!

 

[BritCard]

I am glad I was not drinking anything when I read that... if you do not see the massive illogical citing of those schools and who Tech then has to play there is nothing I can say lol

The teams are irrelevant. They were chosen at random.

The point is TTU didn't have bottom 5 defenses before. And they don't have a bottom 5 defense now (they were average last year). Yet were bottom 5 every year Kliff was there.

That's not a "TTU can't recruit players" issue. That's a "Kliff wasn't good at his job" issue.

 

[cardpa]

To me it's pretty simple, Kliff wants the title of Head Coach but doesn't want ALL the responsibilities that go with the title of head coach or to put it more succinctly he doesn't have the desire to invest the time (areas that are of less interest to him) into all the areas of responsibility required by the position of head coach.