Dennis Gardeck - 2nd round tender

ASUCHRIS

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Have you seen this video of Beckham? https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/odell-beckham-jr-posts-insane-workout-video-amid-recovery/

Recovery times have improved. I think Gardeck will be back by mid season.

Lol, love the "insane workout recovery video" followed by the guy actually looking a like a shell of himself. Please provide some actual examples of guys going down with ACL's in December and looking as good or better the next year.

Expecting anything out of Gardeck next year is about the same as expecting anything from Alford.
 

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Could be. I just know that teams usually offer tenders based upon the rest of the league's view of their players.

i think the original round tender for Gardeck is ~$2mm. for Gardeck, since he was a UDFA, you get a chance to match but no compensation if he leaves

a 2nd round tender is worth $3.2. for the extra $1.2mm, you get a 2nd if you lose him.


on the original tender (i.e. no compensation): a guy with 7 sacks on limited snaps: why wouldn't a team like the Jets or Jax with cap space to spare put a 2 year, $12mm contract on Gardeck? A flyer on a pass rusher knowing the Cards probably cant afford it.
 
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ASUCHRIS

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I don't know why people can't just google themselves rather than the the old "prove me wrong".

How about you do some research before stating opinions?

The above example took a single search to find.

It also took a simple google search to show you've found an exception to the rule...congrats! If you want to base your personnel moves on the exceptions to the rule, you're gonna have a bad time.

If you want to talk about ACL recovery with any seriousness, maybe you should be a little more strategic with your googling.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/may/11/acl-injuries-sports-athletes-careers


Here's the important part:

In the NFL, like other sports, a lasting return to play is also influenced by the player’s pre-injury position – 20% of running backs and wide receivers never return to the NFL and for those that do return, performance drops by a third. However, because their performance is less tied to lower body speed and explosiveness, 12 out of the 13 of NFL quarterbacks studied after ACL surgeries were able to resume playing at pre-injury levels.


On the defensive side of the ball, just published research by the Aune and the American Sports Medicine Institute, the injury research think tank started by Dr James Andrews, indicates that 72% of NFL defensive players return to play at least one game after an ACL injury. But behind that relatively optimistic stat, the news isn’t good for those players on the margins. Average NFL players that tore an ACL saw their performance drop to below average. In time, performance might very well return to normal, but since the NFL is a produce-now league, those players often never return to play or last only for a short period of time before getting cut or released.



Generally, those who successfully returned were above-average NFL players before their injury but relatively average after their return. In other words, after an ACL surgery, a Pro Bowl level defensive player regresses to the performance level of an average player and an average player drops below the NFL standard.

Cool example of one player that overcame the odds though, really helping to move the conversation forward!
 

Cheesebeef

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I don't know why people can't just google themselves rather than the the old "prove me wrong".

How about you do some research before stating opinions?

The above example took a single search to find.

you found 1... from 7 years ago. Congrats.

and i didn't say prove me wrong. Someone else said there's plenty of guys who have come back from an ACL and been good the following the season. THEN, I asked THEM for proof to back up their statement.

but hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a good argument.
 

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okay. Can you name some of these players. Preferably ones that tore their ACLs in late December so we can gauge recovery time?

ACL’s aren’t career enders anymore. But guy’s aren’t normally anywhere near full health that first year. Especially players that depend on quick bursts like Gardeck does. And the fact that it happened so late in the season gives even less recovery time.

Adrian Peterson tore his in December and did not miss a game the next season and rushed for over 2000 yards.

DeShawn Warton tore his in November and didn't miss a start the next season and hasn't missed a game due to injury since.
 
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TJ

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Adrian Peterson tore his in December and did not mess a game the next season and rushed for over 2000 yards.

DeShawn Warton tore his in November and didn't miss a start the next season and hasn't missed a game due to injury since.
Those are two of the most motivated freak athletes this generation. Not that Dennis isn't, but he's not any of those guys.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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It also took a simple google search to show you've found an exception to the rule...congrats! If you want to base your personnel moves on the exceptions to the rule, you're gonna have a bad time.

If you want to talk about ACL recovery with any seriousness, maybe you should be a little more strategic with your googling.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/may/11/acl-injuries-sports-athletes-careers


Here's the important part:

In the NFL, like other sports, a lasting return to play is also influenced by the player’s pre-injury position – 20% of running backs and wide receivers never return to the NFL and for those that do return, performance drops by a third. However, because their performance is less tied to lower body speed and explosiveness, 12 out of the 13 of NFL quarterbacks studied after ACL surgeries were able to resume playing at pre-injury levels.


On the defensive side of the ball, just published research by the Aune and the American Sports Medicine Institute, the injury research think tank started by Dr James Andrews, indicates that 72% of NFL defensive players return to play at least one game after an ACL injury. But behind that relatively optimistic stat, the news isn’t good for those players on the margins. Average NFL players that tore an ACL saw their performance drop to below average. In time, performance might very well return to normal, but since the NFL is a produce-now league, those players often never return to play or last only for a short period of time before getting cut or released.



Generally, those who successfully returned were above-average NFL players before their injury but relatively average after their return. In other words, after an ACL surgery, a Pro Bowl level defensive player regresses to the performance level of an average player and an average player drops below the NFL standard.

Cool example of one player that overcame the odds though, really helping to move the conversation forward!
Hmm that’s unfortunately what I expected. Hope gardeck is an exception, but counting on it is folly.
 

bankybruce

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Those are two of the most motivated freak athletes this generation. Not that Dennis isn't, but he's not any of those guys.

Tyrann Mathieu started the season on time in 2015 after testing his ACL December of 2014.

He missed 3 in 2012 after tearing it in 2011. Every injury is different.
 

Cheesebeef

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Adrian Peterson tore his in December and did not miss a game the next season and rushed for over 2000 yards.

yeah... AP who has proven to be a complete freak of nature. That makes me feel better about Gardeck. He definitely gives me those vibes.

DeShawn Warton tore his in November and didn't miss a start the next season and hasn't missed a game due to injury since.

QBs are a different beast than any other position, IMO. They are grinding and smashing into people or running full speed on every possession.
 

bankybruce

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It also took a simple google search to show you've found an exception to the rule...congrats! If you want to base your personnel moves on the exceptions to the rule, you're gonna have a bad time.

If you want to talk about ACL recovery with any seriousness, maybe you should be a little more strategic with your googling.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/may/11/acl-injuries-sports-athletes-careers


Here's the important part:

In the NFL, like other sports, a lasting return to play is also influenced by the player’s pre-injury position – 20% of running backs and wide receivers never return to the NFL and for those that do return, performance drops by a third. However, because their performance is less tied to lower body speed and explosiveness, 12 out of the 13 of NFL quarterbacks studied after ACL surgeries were able to resume playing at pre-injury levels.


On the defensive side of the ball, just published research by the Aune and the American Sports Medicine Institute, the injury research think tank started by Dr James Andrews, indicates that 72% of NFL defensive players return to play at least one game after an ACL injury. But behind that relatively optimistic stat, the news isn’t good for those players on the margins. Average NFL players that tore an ACL saw their performance drop to below average. In time, performance might very well return to normal, but since the NFL is a produce-now league, those players often never return to play or last only for a short period of time before getting cut or released.



Generally, those who successfully returned were above-average NFL players before their injury but relatively average after their return. In other words, after an ACL surgery, a Pro Bowl level defensive player regresses to the performance level of an average player and an average player drops below the NFL standard.

Cool example of one player that overcame the odds though, really helping to move the conversation forward!

Without the age of the players, this study isn't great. Younger players recover better and faster than older players.
 

bankybruce

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yeah... AP who has proven to be a complete freak of nature. That makes me feel better about Gardeck. He definitely gives me those vibes.



QBs are a different beast than any other position, IMO. They are grinding and smashing into people or running full speed on every possession.

The problem is, each body is different. RGIII was not the same player after and he and Watson played similar styles. We won't know until we know and it a risk, but it's a cheap risk.
 

Cheesebeef

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Tyrann Mathieu started the season on time in 2015 after testing his ACL December of 2014.

He missed 3 in 2012 after tearing it in 2011. Every injury is different.

you have your years wrong. Mathieu tore his ACL in 2013, when he was sick, a dynamic force on the field and looking like a ROY candidate. He wasn't anything near the same player in 2014, when he missed three games, and his stats all plummeted from the previous year.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/26692/

It took him TWO years to come back and be a superstar again in 2015. Then, he he tore his ACL again and then was so middling for two years after that, that we cut him and he didn't regain form with the Chiefs until he went through ANOTHER team,.

you're making my point for me using HB as an example.
 

ASUCHRIS

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My god, using HB as an example of a quick turnaround...incredible.
 

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I am not judging the Cardinals personnel moves, you asked for an example and I did a single search, looked at the first result given and there it was.

You might consider the parameters of a "good player with an acl tear late in the year" isnt going to yield the largest data set.

The same article had several examples of players during the year with dramatic improvement the next but they didn't fit the late in the year

One of them was Carson Palmer ironically.
 

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Every time I see him on the field I doubt him and he keeps producing. I will say though that attitude will not be a problem up front with Gardeck, Golden and Watt
I perceive a subtle shift toward attitude/lockerroom/intangibles when evaluating personnel - especially on defense.

Adrian Wilson's influence, perhaps?
 

bankybruce

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you have your years wrong. Mathieu tore his ACL in 2013, when he was sick, a dynamic force on the field and looking like a ROY candidate. He wasn't anything near the same player in 2014, when he missed three games, and his stats all plummeted from the previous year.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/26692/

It took him TWO years to come back and be a superstar again in 2015. Then, he he tore his ACL again and then was so middling for two years after that, that we cut him and he didn't regain form with the Chiefs until he went through ANOTHER team,.

you're making my point for me using HB as an example.
You're right, I did get the years wrong!

FWIW, I'm not arguing either way, which is why I also mentioned RGIII. You asked for examples of games missed and I was pulling the ones I remembered. I just don't think we can draw any conclusions. Every player is different and he wouldn't be a starter or heavy snap player anyways. He'd be a situational player and and cheap enough for the risk, but definitely may not be the same player.
 

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Im loving this room at the moment. Cut Kennard...save the cap space.

Jones, Golden, Gardeck, and a rookie. If the top guys are gone in the first couple of rounds...I really like Patrick Johnson from Tulane. Again..just a dude who gets after it and stuffs the stat sheet...thats what you want on defense IMO. If hes there in the 5th hed be awesome!

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juza76

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Im loving this room at the moment. Cut Kennard...save the cap space.

Jones, Golden, Gardeck, and a rookie. If the top guys are gone in the first couple of rounds...I really like Patrick Johnson from Tulane. Again..just a dude who gets after it and stuffs the stat sheet...thats what you want on defense IMO. If hes there in the 5th hed be awesome!

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I see some Dwight freeney
 

oaken1

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but it’s Gardeck coming off an end of season ACL. Expecting the same player back this year is classic Keim Cardinals thinking.
Right.... players almost never bounce back their first season back. I don’t expect much from him until 22

really like the kid and hope this doesn’t keep him from getting a long term contract with an eight figure bonus at some point
 

oaken1

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Possibility the team paid him well based on what he did last year and he is well liked.... this team seems to have a history of paying nice guys... so maybe it was gratitude for what he did and a bit of cash for him just in case....
Bad business but good PR
 

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