CP3 vs Rubio

[itlnsunsfan]

My eye test has told me Chris Paul hasn't been any more effective this year than Ricky Rubio was for us last year. But eyes can deceive. What do the numbers say?

https://stathead.com/tiny/R031n

 

[Yuma]

Pretty much the same. Rubio more laid back. Paul is more of a second coach, and is pushing Ayton. So statistically it doen't look like we gained or lost anything. Paul having less turn overs is kind of eye opening.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What’s bothered me the most is CP3’s end of game play. Turnovers, missed shots... he’s supposed to be the leader on the floor and he hasn’t produced in that way since the hot start. I mean... we had EIGHT turnovers in just the 4th quarter last night.

although that shouldn’t TOTALLY surprise me. I’d seen that same level of late game play with the clippers in the playoffs year after year living in LA.

 

[Yuma]

What’s bothered me the most is CP3’s end of game play. Turnovers, missed shots... he’s supposed to be the leader on the floor and he hasn’t produced in that way since the hot start. I mean... we had EIGHT turnovers in just the 4th quarter last night.

although that shouldn’t TOTALLY surprise me. I’d seen that same level of late game play with the clippers in the playoffs year after year living in LA.

I caught a couple of his games last year, and he was nails down the stretch. He has gotten into a bad habit of jumping in the air and getting caught between passing and shooting. It looks like if he would default to the shot, even if he thinks he will be blocked, it's way better than passing to the other team and letting them have lay ups. I am hoping this is just due to a lack of familiarity with this squad. We have missed practices due to Covid, fast turn around from last season, etc.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

Pretty much the same. Rubio more laid back. Paul is more of a second coach, and is pushing Ayton. So statistically it doen't look like we gained or lost anything. Paul having less turn overs is kind of eye opening.

2.7 turnovers for Ricky, to 2.3 turnovers for Paul, so not much of a difference. With Paul's slower, methodical style, he should turn the ball over less, so this doesn't surprise me. With Ricky's inclination to fast break more than Paul, I'm wondering if we got a few more easy bucket opportunities.

 

[Yuma]

2.7 turnovers for Ricky, to 2.3 turnovers for Paul, so not much of a difference. With Paul's slower, methodical style, he should turn the ball over less, so this doesn't surprise me. With Ricky's inclination to fast break more than Paul, I'm wondering if we got a few more easy bucket opportunities.

Yeah, maybe more fast breaks versus definitely seems more lobs and set ups for Ayton. I think overall the biggest change seems to be the personality's of the two.

 

[Muggz]

Rubio pushed the pace for like 27 mil less a year. That's the difference. 27 mil could have us sitting with the dominate PF we STILL need.

Paul's a crafty vet kinda and may get a few more calls a game than Rubio.

Paul is slower for sure.

And he's all ours.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Rubio pushed the pace for like 27 mil less a year. That's the difference. 27 mil could have us sitting with the dominate PF we STILL need.

Paul's a crafty vet kinda and may get a few more calls a game than Rubio.

Paul is slower for sure.

And he's all ours.

I can only hope Paul’s slow start is like the one he had last year with OKC and once he gets in better shape and more comfortable with a roster of new teammates, he turns it on and we can in a Thunder-esque run.

but... he might just be old and age has caught up with him.

 

[Hoop Head]

Rubio pushed the pace for like 27 mil less a year. That's the difference. 27 mil could have us sitting with the dominate PF we STILL need.

Paul's a crafty vet kinda and may get a few more calls a game than Rubio.

Paul is slower for sure.

And he's all ours.

Its not as simple as the salary indicates. We were at the cap and would have needed to find a trade partner for a PF and one that would only want Oubre. Who's to say what sort of PF he could have brought in return. Its not like keeping Rubio and not trading for Paul would have allowed us to spend 17-18 million in free agency.

 

[Mainstreet]

Rubio was approximately $50 million cheaper over two seasons and younger than Chris Paul.

The stats are very comparable at this stage in their careers.

If the Suns had kept Rubio, they could have not only traded Oubre for a first round pick but kept their own first rounder.

I would have kept Rubio rather than the Suns be financially strapped without the ability to trade a first round pick because of the OKC trade.

 

[unseenaz]

Rubio was approximately $50 million cheaper over two seasons and younger than Chris Paul.

The stats are very comparable at this stage in their careers.

If the Suns had kept Rubio, they could have not only traded Oubre for a first round pick but kept their own first rounder.

I would have kept Rubio rather than the Suns be financially strapped without the ability to trade a first round pick because of the OKC trade.

suns lacked leadership though. not saying cp3 was the only way to get that type of mentality on the team, but that alone makes cp3 worth more than rubio to me

 

[Chaplin]

Rubio was approximately $50 million cheaper over two seasons and younger than Chris Paul.

The stats are very comparable at this stage in their careers.

If the Suns had kept Rubio, they could have not only traded Oubre for a first round pick but kept their own first rounder.

I would have kept Rubio rather than the Suns be financially strapped without the ability to trade a first round pick because of the OKC trade.

Booker wanted Paul. That’s where this conversation begins and ends.

 

[elindholm]

Booker wanted Paul. That’s where this conversation begins and ends.

Maybe that can be a lesson for the front office about the folly of empowering players to make major personnel decisions.

Oh wait, this is the Suns we're talking about, never mind.

 

[Hoop Head]

Maybe that can be a lesson for the front office about the folly of empowering players to make major personnel decisions.

Oh wait, this is the Suns we're talking about, never mind.

Thats the way the entire NBA is now. Its a players league. Even teams like Houston, who bent over backwards for Harden, don't call the shots.

 

[Mainstreet]

suns lacked leadership though. not saying cp3 was the only way to get that type of mentality on the team, but that alone makes cp3 worth more than rubio to me

It's a steep price for leadership but as a Suns fan, I'm hoping the Suns made the right decision.

I liked the flexibility the Suns had before the trade. They could have gone so many other different directions. I can understand the Suns trading Oubre. Small forward was not a glaring need and they likely didn't want to pay him.

I would have preferred if the Suns added a power forward.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Hmm. There were a few of us on this board who said exactly this. We were roundly criticized.

I said at the time I would not make that trade. I stand by it. I think we would be the same or better right now if we did not do it.

trading Oubre was necessary though. Our first pick plus Oubre to GS for the chance to pick Wiseman would have been a good move.

I am still going to hope that CP3 works out though. He hasn’t been bad either.

 

[Mainstreet]

Booker wanted Paul. That’s where this conversation begins and ends.

If this is what it took to keep Devin Booker, it is the best explanation for the Chris Paul trade.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Hmm. There were a few of us on this board who said exactly this. We were roundly criticized.

I said at the time I would not make that trade. I stand by it. I think we would be the same or better right now if we did not do it.

trading Oubre was necessary though. Our first pick plus Oubre to GS for the chance to pick Wiseman would have been a good move.

I am still going to hope that CP3 works out though. He hasn’t been bad either.

I don’t think GS makes that deal. People continue to over value oubre and double digit draft slots. Particularly in a 3 player draft.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

To me Paul’s greatest value will be his impact on Ayton. If he’s had any hand in Ayton’s play the most recent three games and it continues then Paul was worth every penny. Also it’s two year contract. It doesn’t hogtie us for a long time as is the case with many monster contracts.

 

[Mainstreet]

Its not as simple as the salary indicates. We were at the cap and would have needed to find a trade partner for a PF and one that would only want Oubre. Who's to say what sort of PF he could have brought in return. Its not like keeping Rubio and not trading for Paul would have allowed us to spend 17-18 million in free agency.

OKC received a $14.4 million trade exception and a first round pick from the Warriors when they traded Oubre. The Suns could have done something like this as well.

 

[Chaplin]

OKC received a $14.4 million trade exception and a first round pick from the Warriors when they traded Oubre. The Suns could have done something like this as well.

You continually say the Suns “could” have done these deals but there is no basis in reality for that assessment. OKC was heading into a rebuild so picks and an exception were worth the trade. That wouldn’t have been our philosophy after the bubble.

 

[Mainstreet]

You continually say the Suns “could” have done these deals but there is no basis in reality for that assessment. OKC was heading into a rebuild so picks and an exception were worth the trade. That wouldn’t have been our philosophy after the bubble.

There is no reason the Suns could not have made the same type of trade OKC did and used the trade exception and first round pick to acquire a power forward.

 

[Chaplin]

There is no reason the Suns could not have made the same type of trade OKC did and used the trade exception and first round pick to acquire a power forward.

Yeah because acquiring a power forward that would help with the “win now” philosophy would have been really easy. After all, all the best ones were available, right?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Hmm. There were a few of us on this board who said exactly this. We were roundly criticized.

I said at the time I would not make that trade. I stand by it. I think we would be the same or better right now if we did not do it.

trading Oubre was necessary though. Our first pick plus Oubre to GS for the chance to pick Wiseman would have been a good move.

I am still going to hope that CP3 works out though. He hasn’t been bad either.

there is no way GS does that trade.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah because acquiring a power forward that would help with the “win now” philosophy would have been really easy. After all, all the best ones were available, right?

Did we see even a single good PF move in the offseason that we would’ve wanted?

gallinari? Not for that $$$
Tristan Thompson? Meh
Jeremy grant? Maybe but I wasn’t sold on him.
Christian wood? More a center
Covington? A maybe
Ibaka? Maybe if we way overpaid
Harrell? Backup center
Markieff? LOL
Portis? Maybe but not sure I’d want him

These are the only players that we KNOW were available in trade or FA as they’re the only ones that moved.