Kobe Bryant Dead: Helicopter Crash

[Brian in Mesa]

Cannot believe some of the stuff being posted in this thread.

Was Kobe driven? Yes. On the court that meant having a killer mentality. Being arrogant and having things his way. Dominating those around him (even teammates at times). Off the court? Yes and no. I believe he likely didn't separate who he was on the court and who he was off the court much when he was younger and even in the first few years of being married and becoming a father. It's just something that's hard for people to do. Beyond the Colorado incident, things were definitely rocky for some time for Kobe and his wife. Vanessa even filed for divorce as recently as December of 2011 and it wasn't called off until January of 2013. To put things into perspective, the Colorado incident, trial, settlement, etc. was from June 2003 to March of 2005. Everyone painted this picture of Kobe settling out of court and buying his wife a huge diamond (apology) ring and everything was just peachy after that. Life usually isn't that simple. They clearly had issues that went on for many years, but - by all accounts - in the most recent stage of his life they had blossomed as a couple and as a family. They had two more girls and Kobe seemed focused on being a husband and a girl dad in his retirement years. He seemed more laid back and had accepted a background role. He didn't want the spotlight unless it was to promote a charity or girl's/women's basketball. Since he passed so many stories have come out with people having positive interactions with him off the court. In nearly every story he is asking about the other person's children or directly helping other people with family questions, etc. As the Lakers fan who likely gave Kobe more crap than anyone else on this board after Colorado (wanted him off my team, rooted for the Lakers despite him, etc) I have to speak up and say that there is no way - in my opinion (but backed up with facts) - that this newest version of Kobe does ANYTHING in that helicopter to endanger his family or the families of the other passengers.

BIM

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Kobe Bryant and Wife 'Had a Deal That They Would Never Fly on a Helicopter Together'

https://people.com/sports/kobe-bryant-wife-vanessa-had-deal-never-fly-helicopter-together/

Kobe Bryant used helicopters to get around Los Angeles, but he and his wife Vanessa Bryant made a point not to fly together.

“He and Vanessa had a deal that they would never fly on a helicopter together,” a source tells PEOPLE of the couple, who tied the knot in 2001.

Bryant, who was killed alongside his 13-year-old daughter Gianna and seven other people in Sunday’s crash, is survived by Vanessa, 37, and their daughters Natalia, 17, Bianka, 3, and Capri, who was born in June 2019.

The former NBA player, 41, and his daughter were on their way to a youth basketball game at the time of the crash, according to ESPN.

The same source also told PEOPLE that Bryant “only” flew in helicopters with pilot Ara Zobayan, who was among those killed in the crash.

Bryant previously shared that he began using helicopters while he still played for the Los Angeles Lakers as a way to spend more time with his family — and less time stuck in traffic.

“I was sitting in traffic and I wound up missing like a school play,” he told Alex Rodriguez in 2018. “I had to figure out a way where I could still train and focus on the craft but still not compromise family time.”

“So that’s when I looked into helicopters, to be able to get down and back in 15 minutes and that’s when it started,” he added.

In an interview published in November for Maria Shriver’s Sunday Paper, Bryant also shared that out of all of his numerous accomplishments, being a father took the cake.

“Being a father is the thing I am most proud of in this world; it’s my greatest accomplishment,” he said. “I’ve learned so much, but perhaps the most profound thing has been the fierce, unconditional love you have for your children when you become a parent. I’m blessed to have had that experience four times now and there’s nothing more powerful in this world.”

 

[cwamjn]

Above is an awesome article, thanks for sharing.

 

[BC867]

I'll add one more thought. Following any tragedy, learned people review why it may have happened
and report it to the public as a deterrent to it happening again.

When law enforcement agencies ground their helicopters due to weather conditions, private citizens
(even celebrities) should take that as guidance to do the same. That is the lesson to be learned.

Condoning otherwise would encourage lack of safety. Citizens should indeed be guided by law
enforcement agencies when it comes to safety.

Just for a minute imagine if somehow Kobe and his hired pilot had lived and the other six died.
Would they be heroes, even though their decision to fly into adversity resulted in tragedy?

When it comes to traffic safety, whether in the sky or on land, not adhering to safety guidance
should not be honored. It is such a basic rule to society.

 

[Mainstreet]

Now is the time for grieving, not for blame.

 

[swagron]

This thread should be closed.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I'll add one more thought. Following any tragedy, learned people review why it may have happened
and report it to the public as a deterrent to it happening again.

When law enforcement agencies ground their helicopters due to weather conditions, private citizens
(even celebrities) should take that as guidance to do the same. That is the lesson to be learned.

Condoning otherwise would encourage lack of safety. Citizens should indeed be guided by law
enforcement agencies when it comes to safety.

Just for a minute imagine if somehow Kobe and his hired pilot had lived and the other six died.
Would they be heroes, even though their decision to fly into adversity resulted in tragedy?

When it comes to traffic safety, whether in the sky or on land, not adhering to safety guidance
should not be honored. It is such a basic rule to society.

The decision to fly (and how) was up to the pilot. Period.

LAPD grounded their helicopters. Why was Kobe Bryant's chopper allowed to fly?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kobe-b...pters-why-was-bryants-chopper-allowed-to-fly/

The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating the helicopter crash that killed nine people, including NBA legend Kobe Bryant, on Sunday. The helicopter slammed into a hillside in Calabasas, California at about 10 a.m. local time. Shortly after the devastating crash, Los Angeles Police Department spokesman Josh Rubenstein confirmed that the department's Air Support division had grounded its helicopters that morning due to foggy conditions.

LAPD choppers didn't fly until later in the afternoon. Why was Bryant's private aircraft allowed to fly?

The pilot of the helicopter, Ara Zobayan, requested special permission to fly through the fog, CBS News transportation correspondent Kris Van Cleave explained Monday on "CBS This Morning."

"A pilot requesting special VFR (visual flight rules) is taking on some added risk because they are opting to fly at a lower altitude and at lower visibility than under normal circumstances," Van Cleave said. "That decision to continue this flight instead of waiting out the weather is going to be scrutinized."

Some pilots are already questioning that decision, Paul Cline, an assistant professor of aviation at York College, told CBS News.

"The visibility was less than three miles," Cline said. "That would've prevented the pilot from taking off and flying VFR."

Cline explained that there are two sets of rules for pilots: the aforementioned visual flight rules, in which the pilot relies on their own sight, and instrument flight rules, or IFR. When a pilot is flying IFR, they are not relying on their own sight, they are relying on air traffic control to watch their flight pattern on radar and guide them on their flight.

"[With IFR] you are under the direct control of air traffic control at all times," Cline said. "The pilot can't do what he wants to do, he has to do what he's told to do."

These IFR rules are reserved for times when the pilot can't see through clouds or in certain airspaces.

Cline said the special VFR permission Zobayan asked for was the pilot basically saying that despite bad weather conditions, he thought he was able to see and fly himself.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This thread should be closed.

I am keeping it open for now. I too find the victim blaming distasteful but it's not against the rules

BC is entitled to his opinion so let's not get personal with him

 

[Phrazbit]

The decision to fly (and how) was up to the pilot. Period.

LAPD grounded their helicopters. Why was Kobe Bryant's chopper allowed to fly?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kobe-b...pters-why-was-bryants-chopper-allowed-to-fly/

The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating the helicopter crash that killed nine people, including NBA legend Kobe Bryant, on Sunday. The helicopter slammed into a hillside in Calabasas, California at about 10 a.m. local time. Shortly after the devastating crash, Los Angeles Police Department spokesman Josh Rubenstein confirmed that the department's Air Support division had grounded its helicopters that morning due to foggy conditions.

LAPD choppers didn't fly until later in the afternoon. Why was Bryant's private aircraft allowed to fly?

The pilot of the helicopter, Ara Zobayan, requested special permission to fly through the fog, CBS News transportation correspondent Kris Van Cleave explained Monday on "CBS This Morning."

"A pilot requesting special VFR (visual flight rules) is taking on some added risk because they are opting to fly at a lower altitude and at lower visibility than under normal circumstances," Van Cleave said. "That decision to continue this flight instead of waiting out the weather is going to be scrutinized."

Some pilots are already questioning that decision, Paul Cline, an assistant professor of aviation at York College, told CBS News.

"The visibility was less than three miles," Cline said. "That would've prevented the pilot from taking off and flying VFR."

Cline explained that there are two sets of rules for pilots: the aforementioned visual flight rules, in which the pilot relies on their own sight, and instrument flight rules, or IFR. When a pilot is flying IFR, they are not relying on their own sight, they are relying on air traffic control to watch their flight pattern on radar and guide them on their flight.

"[With IFR] you are under the direct control of air traffic control at all times," Cline said. "The pilot can't do what he wants to do, he has to do what he's told to do."

These IFR rules are reserved for times when the pilot can't see through clouds or in certain airspaces.

Cline said the special VFR permission Zobayan asked for was the pilot basically saying that despite bad weather conditions, he thought he was able to see and fly himself.

It should be mentioned that, when flying from point A to point B, it is conceivable that you can do it in zero visibility if you know the area and your instruments well enough. While a police helicopter is flying with the specific purpose of providing visual support to situations on the ground and they fly without specific destinations. So, it isn't surprising that the police standard for using their choppers is set higher than a civilian flight.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

It's also completely conceivable that when you take off in LA that you have visibility and conditions change during your flight path

 

[95pro]

Got to give props to Barkley. All week he’s been saying let’s remember there were 8 other people involved in the crash.

 

[Yuma]

I get the idea there were 8 other people on the helicopter. It doesn't take away the fact that Kobe and his daughter were on the copter either. No one was denying they weren't. People feel like they knew Kobe from his play on the Lakers and that affected a lot of people. I don't understand the backlash for the out pouring of grief over Kobe's death. It's like saying, hey when Jesus died there were two other guys on crosses that day!

 

[GatorAZ]

I get the idea there were 8 other people on the helicopter. It doesn't take away the fact that Kobe and his daughter were on the copter either. No one was denying they weren't. People feel like they knew Kobe from his play on the Lakers and that affected a lot of people. I don't understand the backlash for the out pouring of grief over Kobe's death. It's like saying, hey when Jesus died there were two other guys on crosses that day!

What backlash?

 

[Yuma]

What backlash?

I am seeing a lot of memes on the internet pushing back on the Kobe outpouring. Things like, "There were eight others on the helicopter, too!"

 

[GatorAZ]

I am seeing a lot of memes on the internet pushing back on the Kobe outpouring. Things like, "There were eight others on the helicopter, too!"

A celebrity getting more outpouring than 7 strangers is very odd!

 

[Yuma]

A celebrity getting more outpouring than 7 strangers is very odd!

That's what I was saying.

 

[AZ Native]

Cannot believe some of the stuff being posted in this thread.

Was Kobe driven? Yes. On the court that meant having a killer mentality. Being arrogant and having things his way. Dominating those around him (even teammates at times). Off the court? Yes and no. I believe he likely didn't separate who he was on the court and who he was off the court much when he was younger and even in the first few years of being married and becoming a father. It's just something that's hard for people to do. Beyond the Colorado incident, things were definitely rocky for some time for Kobe and his wife. Vanessa even filed for divorce as recently as December of 2011 and it wasn't called off until January of 2013. To put things into perspective, the Colorado incident, trial, settlement, etc. was from June 2003 to March of 2005. Everyone painted this picture of Kobe settling out of court and buying his wife a huge diamond (apology) ring and everything was just peachy after that. Life usually isn't that simple. They clearly had issues that went on for many years, but - by all accounts - in the most recent stage of his life they had blossomed as a couple and as a family. They had two more girls and Kobe seemed focused on being a husband and a girl dad in his retirement years. He seemed more laid back and had accepted a background role. He didn't want the spotlight unless it was to promote a charity or girl's/women's basketball. Since he passed so many stories have come out with people having positive interactions with him off the court. In nearly every story he is asking about the other person's children or directly helping other people with family questions, etc. As the Lakers fan who likely gave Kobe more crap than anyone else on this board after Colorado (wanted him off my team, rooted for the Lakers despite him, etc) I have to speak up and say that there is no way - in my opinion (but backed up with facts) - that this newest version of Kobe does ANYTHING in that helicopter to endanger his family or the families of the other passengers.

BIM

Good post BIM. I agree with you. But could you throw in a paragraph now and then.

 

[Yuma]

I am hoping in the near future with better optical technologies, conditions like this we will have optics that will allow us to see through these type of conditions.

 

[BC867]

I am seeing a lot of memes on the internet pushing back on the Kobe outpouring. Things like, "There were eight others on the helicopter, too!"

I believe we need to separate Kobe the celebrity from the family man and friend. If a man hired someone
to drive his minivan from Phoenix to Tucson for a basketball game, and they continue to drive through
extremely heavy fog (100% humidity) with his daughter and six friends instead of turning back, and they
lost their lives in a traffic accident, we would not be glorifying him.

But we seem to set a different standard for celebrities. We glorify their reckless behavior. Kobe, driven
by the obsessive nature he admitted to, became a great NBA player. But in this instance, he failed as a
family man and friend.

I mourn the loss of anyone who loses their life. But I cannot glorify the selfishness of the person who
could have avoided it. The owner of the helicopter, who was sitting in the co-pilot seat behind hinged
doors separating them from the two benches of seats in the cabin. That is the configuration of his
Sikorsky S76B helicopter.

Perhaps if he had been able to look into his daughter's eyes, and those of his friends, he might have
made a safer decision. Do we know that it was his decision? No, but it's his aircraft and he hired the
pilot. And it was his family and friends on board.

 

[Yuma]

I believe we need to separate Kobe the celebrity from the family man and friend. If a man hired someone
to drive his minivan from Phoenix to Tucson for a basketball game, and they continue to drive through
extremely heavy fog (100% humidity) with his daughter and six friends instead of turning back, and they
lost their lives in a traffic accident, we would not be glorifying him.

But we seem to set a different standard for celebrities. We glorify their reckless behavior. Kobe, driven
by the obsessive nature he admitted to, became a great NBA player. But in this instance, he failed as a
family man and friend.

I mourn the loss of anyone who loses their life. But I cannot glorify the selfishness of the person who
could have avoided it. The owner of the helicopter, who was sitting in the co-pilot seat behind hinged
doors separating them from the two benches of seats in the cabin. That is the configuration of his
Sikorsky S76B helicopter.

Perhaps if he had been able to look into his daughter's eyes, and those of his friends, he might have
made a safer decision. Do we know that it was his decision? No, but it's his aircraft and he hired the
pilot. And it was his family and friends on board.

I am thinking he hired a professional. If a professional tells me it is OK, I trust their opinion. They are supposed to be the expert. I don't know how it went down, but if that pilot told me it was safe, I would have got on that helicopter. Especially if I had flown a bunch of flights already and had always landed safely.

 

[BC867]

I am thinking he hired a professional. If a professional tells me it is OK, I trust their opinion. They are supposed to be the expert. I don't know how it went down, but if that pilot told me it was safe, I would have got on that helicopter. Especially if I had flown a bunch of flights already and had always landed safely.

It was reported that this was the first time Kobe was using this pilot.

It was a touchy situation. I like to err on the side of caution. Especially in a blanket of fog.

 

[carrrnuttt]

It was reported that this was the first time Kobe was using this pilot.

By whom? The internet?

Ara Zobayan was Kobe's regular pilot and Kawhi's as well:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nb...re-if-he-will-use-helicopter-again/ar-BBZu706

Leonard said that Ara Zobayan, the pilot of the helicopter that crashed, had flown him to and from many games in the past. He said there were times when Zobayan would pick him up after having just taken Kobe somewhere, and Leonard described Zobayan as a “good dude.” When asked if the crash will give him pause about traveling via helicopter in the future, Leonard said he is not sure.

 

[BC867]

Even if that were the case, is there any doubt that, if Kobe had said
it is not worth the risk, the pilot would have refused to turn around?

Again, you err on the side of caution. Especially when the only thing
at risk is missing a basketball game. Versus the safety of the
passengers.

 

[carrrnuttt]

Even if that were the case, is there any doubt that, if Kobe had said
it is not worth the risk, the pilot would have refused to turn around?

Again, you err on the side of caution. Especially when the only thing
at risk is missing a basketball game. Versus the safety of the
passengers.

Dude.

Stop it.

Every pilot who's flown Kobe before and was asked about said that Kobe has never pressured them to fly:

https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/k...l-star-never-pressured-him-to-fly-77715525856

I mean WTF is your obsession with trying to convince everyone that this is Kobe's fault?

 

[BC867]

Dude.

Stop it.

Every pilot who's flown Kobe before and was asked about said that Kobe has never pressured them to fly:

https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/k...l-star-never-pressured-him-to-fly-77715525856

I mean WTF is your obsession with trying to convince everyone that this is Kobe's fault?

Oh, you missed my point. I didn't say that he pressured him to fly.
Rather, that he evidently did not instruct him to turn around.

A play on words to win a debate doesn't override the loss of lives.
The result of a blanket of fog speaks for itself.

I am not obsessed with anything. I am giving my opinion about who
had the opportunity to save lives. It was either Kobe or the pilot.
And evidently, neither did. If either had, it wouldn't be an issue.

I am looking at the humanitarian side of it. Even on a sports board.
You want me to stop thinking about the victims? No!