My conclusion on what's going on

[Krangodnzr]

As one of the #TeamMurray, I'm obviously intrigued by the idea of drafting Murray. I may take swipes at Rosen, but I do think he has decent potential to be a good QB.

Based on everything I'm seeing, the Cardinals identified Murray as the only real potential franchise QB of this draft. Haskins, Lock, Jones, and Grier all have significant warts to their games. You can debate Murray's size, the off the field stuff, or his commitment, but Murray's actual film shows he's the best QB in this draft.

I'm more and more coming to the conclusion that this is a big smokescreen, the most epic smokescreen that any team has ever used during the modern era. I think the Cardinals DO like Murray, but I think they understand that Rosen plus 2-3 other players is a winning combination.

It's not a secret that Jon Gruden was not happy with what he saw from Derek Carr. I think the Cardinals know that Gruden would love to move on from Carr and that the only way to force the Raiders to trade up is to leak information that they are taking Murray. Why do you think that during the combine, nearly EVERYONE was saying that Keim and Kingsbury were saying they were taking Murray.

Watch the Cowherd interview with Keim at the combine. We've all watched Keim for years, so we have an idea about how he communicates. From this interview, he clearly seemed to believe that Rosen is still the guy. Why does he do this if he's running a smokescreen? To clearly communicate with Rosen that he is still the quarterback of the Cardinals.

@TJ pointed out an interesting fact and I investigated it: Josh Rosen is still "liking" all of the Cardinals posts on Instagram. He "liked" the post in regards to the start of the Cardinals offseason. While he did remove all of his Cardinals related posts and that does make it look like the team has moved on from him, wouldn't it be crazy if he is part of the smokescreen? I'm starting to believe that he is. If the team believes he is their QBOTF, then getting him involved is the right move.

Why are the Cardinals going to pass on Bosa and move down? Because despite what everyone is saying about Bosa, the Cardinals can get another REALLY good player at #4 and get 2-3 more good players in the first 3 rounds with a trade down. One of the reasons that Keim has so many misses compared with other teams is that the Cardinals have had a below average number of picks throughout the Keim regime. Maybe Keim has realized just how important it is to have MORE at bats. If you have a 20% hit rate on any given pick, having 10 picks even if they are lower, is better than having 6.

 

[BigRedRage]

I like how today instead of starting Murray threads we are starting "what i think is happening" threads and then talking about murray. @Southpaw trying to help with your count keeping so tagging you.


with that being said, I feel this is the most likely scenario too and got excited when the raiders starting salivating over Murray as I always felt we were smokescreening them about murray and bosa.

 

[slanidrac16]

Id be shocked if the Raiders moved on from Carr. Things at times looked a little tumultuous in Raider land but Carr ended up throwing for over 4000 yds with basically only a te to throw to with just 10 ints. And a 93 qb rating. Now hee has a left tackle AB plus whatever else they add to their roster. Just don’t see it happening.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Id be shocked if the Raiders moved on from Carr. Things at times looked a little tumultuous in Raider land but Carr ended up throwing for over 4000 yds with basically only a te to throw to with just 10 ints. And a 93 qb rating. Now hee has a left tackle AB plus whatever else they add to their roster. Just don’t see it happening.

Ant Brown is team Carr and wants a vet, Raiders are not getting Murray #Facts

 

[slanidrac16]

Id be shocked if the Raiders moved on from Carr. Things at times looked a little tumultuous in Raider land but Carr ended up throwing for over 4000 yds with basically only a te to throw to with just 10 ints. And a 93 qb rating. Now hee has a left tackle AB plus whatever else they add to their roster. Just don’t see it happening.

Not to even mention salary cap implications.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Boooo!!! Boooo for Krangthebrain!

I'm just so over the whole thing at this point. It's exhausting, lol..

 

[Krangodnzr]

Id be shocked if the Raiders moved on from Carr. Things at times looked a little tumultuous in Raider land but Carr ended up throwing for over 4000 yds with basically only a te to throw to with just 10 ints. And a 93 qb rating. Now hee has a left tackle AB plus whatever else they add to their roster. Just don’t see it happening.

Carr has failed to deliver when called upon.

I know the Pro-Rosen crowd is trying to NOT like Murray, but he basically had the best passing season in the history of college football and he is probably the best RUNNER in this draft as well.

Murray has the chance to be a generational talent. I know people on this board don't want to hear that, but his ability on the football field demonstrates that he can be.

Put him behind a good offensive line and good receivers that can take the top off the defense and he could be scary good. I think Gruden is salivating over his onfield tools, which is why the Raiders went to work him out.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ant Brown is team Carr and wants a vet, Raiders are not getting Murray #Facts

His cousin just played with Murray last year. They have a relationship.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Not to even mention salary cap implications.

The hit isn't bad. Draft Murray, have hit sit behind Carr in the short term.

Murray's upside is way greater than Carr's upside.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Boooo!!! Boooo for Krangthebrain!

I'm just so over the whole thing at this point. It's exhausting, lol..

I want Murray, I just think the Cardinals are looking at a different path.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Carr has all the qb tools, and like Rosen has been in an unsettling environment. If Gruden doesn't want Carr, it is for same reasons K would prefer Murray, creativity. They both see themselves as an artist.

 

[Chopper0080]

If we trade down...remember these names.

Jawaan Taylor
Andre Dillard
TJ Hockenson
Noah Fant

Keim and Kingsbury understand that the offense needs talent and better production from the offensive line.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Ant Brown is team Carr and wants a vet, Raiders are not getting Murray #Facts

The guys on PFT said just the opposite this morning...They said Brown is NOT a Carr fan at all.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Id be shocked if the Raiders moved on from Carr. Things at times looked a little tumultuous in Raider land but Carr ended up throwing for over 4000 yds with basically only a te to throw to with just 10 ints. And a 93 qb rating. Now hee has a left tackle AB plus whatever else they add to their roster. Just don’t see it happening.

I know Gruden is in charge...... But you don't bring in Mike Mayock and then completely ignore his draft philosophy of never relinquishing draft capital to trade up for a player.

It continues to lead me to believe they will stand pat and take this draft's version of Khalil Mack. He may not be that good, but Josh Allen is that guy.

Our trade partners will most likely be Tampa, NYG, Jax, Denver, Mia, or Wash. That's my 2 cents.

 

[Chopper0080]

Also, Carr is an under 20 mil cap hit for the next three years for the team that trades for him.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I'm more and more coming to the conclusion that this is a big smokescreen, the most epic smokescreen that any team has ever used during the modern era. I think the Cardinals DO like Murray, but I think they understand that Rosen plus 2-3 other players is a winning combination.

I am hoping you are correct. As much as i prefer Murray over JR, your scenario would make the most football sense. Just keep asking yourselves 'what would Jesus (I mean Belichick) do.'

 

[juza76]

I want Murray, I just think the Cardinals are looking at a different path.

The path of making spectators annoyed with creepy performances

 

[Krangodnzr]

If we trade down...remember these names.

Jawaan Taylor
Andre Dillard
TJ Hockenson
Noah Fant

Keim and Kingsbury understand that the offense needs talent and better production from the offensive line.

I saw a mock today that had the Cards trading down to #4 and taking Taylor. I'd be down with that. I expect the defense to be pretty good even without adding a top 5 pick.

 

[GuernseyCard]

If Gruden wants Bosa, he has to move up because the 49ers are waiting with open arms.

If he wants Mini-Me, he can stay put at #4.

(Gruden has been quite complimentary of Carr recently and his last season was far from a disaster)

 

[Krangodnzr]

I know Gruden is in charge...... But you don't bring in Mike Mayock and then completely ignore his draft philosophy of never relinquishing draft capital to trade up for a player.

It continues to lead me to believe they will stand pat and take this draft's version of Khalil Mack. He may not be that good, but Josh Allen is that guy.

Our trade partners will most likely be Tampa, NYG, Jax, Denver, Mia, or Wash. That's my 2 cents.

I think Mayock will understand just how unique Murray is. Many of us have compared him to Russell Wilson, but he's a lot more talented than Wilson was coming out.

Gruden LOVES Russell Wilson. You don't think he would want his own version?

 

[Dr. Jones]

I think Mayock will understand just how unique Murray is. Many of us have compared him to Russell Wilson, but he's a lot more talented than Wilson was coming out.

Gruden LOVES Russell Wilson. You don't think he would want his own version?

On the Kingsbury podcast today I heard coach say that Gruden asked him a question at this high school coaches clinic that happened during the owners meetings.

Gruden asked KK in front of these HS coaches..... Are you really going to take Murray with the #1 pick?

If Mayock understands how special KM is..... and they have a QB who is even more proven than JR is......... Why would they give up on Carr but we wouldn't give up on Rosen?

I can't believe how similar this is to the Suns. They hired Igor then chose Ayton. It was as stupid then as it is in hindsight. You dont hire the guy who knows more about Doncic than anyone in any draft room in the NBA and then go out and draft a center in today's NBA. Centers are how you USED to win titles. Offenses are much more explosive now and the rule changes have made it much harder for a big man to have a HUGE impact on the game unless they are also transcendent on defense as well. ala Giannis, Embid, & Davis.

Same can be said for KK & KM. Hopefully Keim learned those lessons and the other Mcdonough brother has a bit more sense to him.

 

[az jam]

Interest stuff, however, I think the Cards will draft Murray and trade Rosen. IMO Bidwill bought into hiring KK and will give him the QB that he wants.

 

[Krangodnzr]

On the Kingsbury podcast today I heard coach say that Gruden asked him a question at this high school coaches clinic that happened during the owners meetings.

Gruden asked KK in front of these HS coaches..... Are you really going to take Murray with the #1 pick?

If Mayock understands how special KM is..... and they have a QB who is even more proven than JR is......... Why would they give up on Carr but we wouldn't give up on Rosen?

I can't believe how similar this is to the Suns. They hired Igor then chose Ayton. It was as stupid then as it is in hindsight. You dont hire the guy who knows more about Doncic than anyone in any draft room in the NBA and then go out and draft a center in today's NBA. Centers are how you USED to win titles. Offenses are much more explosive now and the rule changes have made it much harder for a big man to have a HUGE impact on the game unless they are also transcendent on defense as well. ala Giannis, Embid, & Davis.

Same can be said for KK & KM. Hopefully Keim learned those lessons and the other Mcdonough brother has a bit more sense to him.

I'd still take Ayton LOL. Ayton's ceiling is way higher IMO.

Why would they give up on Carr? Because he is the ultimate empty stat QB. He cried on the sidelines, which even in era where society is trying to wipe out toxic masculinity, wasn't received well in the lockerroom.

The Raiders (rightfully) understand that QB is the most important position and that Murray will have a huge impact for them.

The Cardinals know what they have in Rosen. They think he can be a high level starter if they give him the tools to be that guy. His ceiling isn't as high as Murray, but they've already invested in him. The Cardinals felt out the trade market and have found that the best they can get for Rosen is a second rounder. They would trade Rosen if they could get back a 1st, but it's too much risk.

Everyone keeps talking about the risk of bringing in Kingsbury, but the risk is mitigated by Keim picking his coaching staff. One of the primary reasons college coaches fail in the NFL is because they don't generally know NFL caliber coaches. IMO this is one of the best staffs the Cardinals have put together in the time I've been watching, if not the best. Kugler, Saxon, Joseph, and Clements are all premium coaches. Kingsbury and Clements will build a good offense, I'm confident of that. The defense has enough talent that with good coaching, they will be pretty good.

The opportunity cost of taking Murray for the Cardinals is probably 3-4 really good to good players. Sure there is no guarantee, but more at bats gives you better opportunities.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I'd still take Ayton LOL. Ayton's ceiling is way higher IMO.

Why would they give up on Carr? Because he is the ultimate empty stat QB. He cried on the sidelines, which even in era where society is trying to wipe out toxic masculinity, wasn't received well in the lockerroom.

The Raiders (rightfully) understand that QB is the most important position and that Murray will have a huge impact for them.

The Cardinals know what they have in Rosen. They think he can be a high level starter if they give him the tools to be that guy. His ceiling isn't as high as Murray, but they've already invested in him. The Cardinals felt out the trade market and have found that the best they can get for Rosen is a second rounder. They would trade Rosen if they could get back a 1st, but it's too much risk.

Everyone keeps talking about the risk of bringing in Kingsbury, but the risk is mitigated by Keim picking his coaching staff. One of the primary reasons college coaches fail in the NFL is because they don't generally know NFL caliber coaches. IMO this is one of the best staffs the Cardinals have put together in the time I've been watching, if not the best. Kugler, Saxon, Joseph, and Clements are all premium coaches. Kingsbury and Clements will build a good offense, I'm confident of that. The defense has enough talent that with good coaching, they will be pretty good.

The opportunity cost of taking Murray for the Cardinals is probably 3-4 really good to good players. Sure there is no guarantee, but more at bats gives you better opportunities.

Meh.... Just seems far fetched to me.

If they are truly in the market for a new QB, they can trade for Rosen! :-D

I really do think Mayock will be drafting Bosa, QW, or JA. They need to really re-invigorate their defensive pressure. Especially in that division.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Meh.... Just seems far fetched to me.

If they are truly in the market for a new QB, they can trade for Rosen! :-D

I really do think Mayock will be drafting Bosa, QW, or JA. They need to really re-invigorate their defensive pressure. Especially in that division.

I think they want to fix the offense first. Offense wins football games now.