Charley Casserly: Interesting comments regarding Bosa and Murray.

[Crimson Warrior]

Me thinks you are saying this because you are a Kyler Murray fan boy.

Not very convincing of an argument, considering that Kingsbury has changed his offense to fit his personnel. He's not Mike Leach.

Krang, you could do better write ups than the guys at freaking bleacher report. I was joking around a little.

However, the article does illustrate the point that it's not just "oklahoma homers" that think we need to seriously consider the following question.

Which QB, long term, is going to get ARZ the most wins? Josh Rosen, or Kyler Murray?

Which QB will make the most plays, allowing our offense to be its most successful?

Answer us truthfully Krang, if, in this year's draft, there was a QB that you thought would be much more productive for the Cardinals versus Rosen, would you then advocate that the Cardinals draft that QB at #1?

Would you advocate spending another draft pick on a QB, or would you stand pat with Rosen?

 

[Finito]

Krang, you could do better write ups than the guys at freaking bleacher report. I was joking around a little.

However, the article does illustrate the point that it's not just "oklahoma homers" that think we need to seriously consider the following question.

Which QB, long term, is going to get ARZ the most wins? Josh Rosen, or Kyler Murray?

Which QB will make the most plays, allowing our offense to be its most successful?

Answer us truthfully Krang, if, in this year's draft, there was a QB that you thought would be much more productive for the Cardinals versus Rosen, would you then advocate that the Cardinals draft that QB at #1?

Would you advocate spending another draft pick on a QB, or would you stand pat with Rosen?

Not one expert has said if Murray was in last years draft he goes before Mayfield, Darnold or Rosen.

Dude I get it your OU hardcore that’s great, but nobody....NOBODY his size has ever succeeded in the NFL at QB. There’s small and then there’s tiny and he’s tiny.

We are not drafting him. Let it go

 

[Solar7]

Krang, you could do better write ups than the guys at freaking bleacher report. I was joking around a little.

However, the article does illustrate the point that it's not just "oklahoma homers" that think we need to seriously consider the following question.

Which QB, long term, is going to get ARZ the most wins? Josh Rosen, or Kyler Murray?

Which QB will make the most plays, allowing our offense to be its most successful?

Answer us truthfully Krang, if, in this year's draft, there was a QB that you thought would be much more productive for the Cardinals versus Rosen, would you then advocate that the Cardinals draft that QB at #1?

Would you advocate spending another draft pick on a QB, or would you stand pat with Rosen?

You're acting like Rosen is some throwaway rookie we picked in the 3rd round. If we hadn't moved up to take him, he probably would have lasted all of one more pick. All four of these quarterbacks were considered very, very good, and up until the last minute, Rosen was pretty much the #2 guy on the board.

In this year's class, he'd be hanging around #1.

I'm even willing to question Rosen's future, even though I love the pick and the player, because historically, your 2nd-4th QBs taken in any draft have been busts, but Kyler Murray just has way too many questions at this point.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Bosa please, and this is coming from someone who thinks Rosen isn't any good.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Krang, you could do better write ups than the guys at freaking bleacher report. I was joking around a little.

However, the article does illustrate the point that it's not just "oklahoma homers" that think we need to seriously consider the following question.

Which QB, long term, is going to get ARZ the most wins? Josh Rosen, or Kyler Murray?

Which QB will make the most plays, allowing our offense to be its most successful?

Answer us truthfully Krang, if, in this year's draft, there was a QB that you thought would be much more productive for the Cardinals versus Rosen, would you then advocate that the Cardinals draft that QB at #1?

Would you advocate spending another draft pick on a QB, or would you stand pat with Rosen?

I don't know which QB will get you more wins.

What I do know is that if both players (Rosen and Murray) become good NFL QBs, I'd rather have Rosen. A big, strong armed pocket passers is still the way to win. They don't have to move to find throwing lanes.

AND taking Murray takes away the ability to take the highest rated college edge rusher in a while. Nick Bosa has a chance to be a great player who can disrupt all phases of the game.

So the question is:

Do you want Josh Rosen and a defensive building block....or risk it for a 5'10 tiny QB?

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Not one expert has said if Murray was in last years draft he goes before Mayfield, Darnold or Rosen.

Dude I get it your OU hardcore that’s great, but nobody....NOBODY his size has ever succeeded in the NFL at QB. There’s small and then there’s tiny and he’s tiny.

We are not drafting him. Let it go

It's true that I'm hardcore OU Finito, and it adversely effects my judgement I concede that. But can you at least concede that the football gods are taunting me sir? First mayfield could have been a cardinal last year, and now murray is possible this year, but will probably go somewhere else? What's next? Jalen Hurts wins the heisman at OU this season, but Rosen gets us six wins in 2019, and we draft too low to get Hurts in 2020? Terrible!

You're acting like Rosen is some throwaway rookie we picked in the 3rd round. If we hadn't moved up to take him, he probably would have lasted all of one more pick. All four of these quarterbacks were considered very, very good, and up until the last minute, Rosen was pretty much the #2 guy on the board.

In this year's class, he'd be hanging around #1.

I'm even willing to question Rosen's future, even though I love the pick and the player, because historically, your 2nd-4th QBs taken in any draft have been busts, but Kyler Murray just has way too many questions at this point.

Lots of questions about Murray, and Rosen is no doubt very talented Solar. I absolutely agree that Rosen is still a potential franchise QB. All of that is fair.

But like you, what I saw last year from Josh has me now wondering, and after watching Murray make play after play after play in 2018, I can't help but think he has a reasonable chance (a chance!) to play at a Mahomes-like level in the NFL.

I don't know which QB will get you more wins.

What I do know is that if both players (Rosen and Murray) become good NFL QBs, I'd rather have Rosen. A big, strong armed pocket passers is still the way to win. They don't have to move to find throwing lanes.

AND taking Murray takes away the ability to take the highest rated college edge rusher in a while. Nick Bosa has a chance to be a great player who can disrupt all phases of the game.

So the question is:

Do you want Josh Rosen and a defensive building block....or risk it for a 5'10 tiny QB?

And that's a very intelligent and reasonable argument for taking Bosa at #1. You're logic is all but irrefutable.

The only rebuttal I can make is:

But the QB position is so important, way more important than a single DL position, and Murray has a chance (a chance!) to play at a Mahomes-like level at that critical position. To lift our offense to an elite level. This justifies the additional investment of draft capital. The variable is how highly one rates Murray's potential. Obviously you rate him much lower than I do, me, with my crimson colored glasses.

 

[Covert Rain]

Bosa please, and this is coming from someone who thinks Rosen isn't any good.

During the season with the strong possibility that we were headed for the #1 pick I was intrigued about trades, positioning and the possibility of stock piling picks. Now? I am not convinced Rosen is EVER going to be anything special. Sure, any QB probably would have struggled under Wilks. However, you don't get to be the worst rated QB just because of coaching problems.

The closer we get to the draft the better Murray sounds to me.

 

[GuernseyCard]

During the season with the strong possibility that we were headed for the #1 pick I was intrigued about trades, positioning and the possibility of stock piling picks. Now? I am not convinced Rosen is EVER going to be anything special. Sure, any QB probably would have struggled under Wilks. However, you don't get to be the worst rated QB just because of coaching problems.

The closer we get to the draft the better Murray sounds to me.

Check out how the QBs selected before Rosen, save at #1, and you'll be either a bit more optimistic or believe that the Jets, Bills and Cards should be dumping 3 top 10 picks after 1 season.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

During the season with the strong possibility that we were headed for the #1 pick I was intrigued about trades, positioning and the possibility of stock piling picks. Now? I am not convinced Rosen is EVER going to be anything special. Sure, any QB probably would have struggled under Wilks. However, you don't get to be the worst rated QB just because of coaching problems.

The closer we get to the draft the better Murray sounds to me.

If we can somehow get 3 1st rounders and still be in the top 6 or 7 picks, I'd be all for trading down. If not, pick Bosa and get a QB next year or trade for Bridgewater or something.

btw. I am ALREADY convinced Rosen will not be anything special.

 

[GuernseyCard]

If we can somehow get 3 1st rounders and still be in the top 6 or 7 picks, I'd be all for trading down. If not, pick Bosa and get a QB next year or trade for Bridgewater or something.

btw. I am ALREADY convinced Rosen will not be anything special.

I take it you were also convinced that Goff wouldn't add up to much after his first season, right?

 

[Chopper0080]

Yeah I remember the majority here laughing about Baker the Touchdown Maker as well going high, then he went #1 & had a very good rookie season. While I don’t think he reads defenses quite as well as BM, this kid has some magic in him & ive watched & followed the kid since his Allen HS days.

I know it’s not going to happen, all I’m saying is evaluate this kid hard as you do others you’re thinking of drafting #1 or fairly high.

I don't think anyone should be taking a victory lap on Baker Mayfield yet...just saying.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I don't think anyone should be taking a victory lap on Baker Mayfield yet...just saying.

So easy to sit back and stay "yeah, but he might have a bad year next year".

That one's a little on the weak side Chopper.

 

[GuernseyCard]

So easy to sit back and stay "yeah, but he might have a bad year next year".

That one's a little on the weak side Chopper.

So easy to say that Rosen is a bust after one season, as some say. And the reservation about Baker is related in his in-the-pocket numbers and that his out-of-pocket tools can be countered. Maybe he is simply Dak Prescott 2.0, at best.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/21/kyler-murray-2019-nfl-draft-first-round-lincoln-riley

Picture Murray holding up a #1 Cardinals jersey at 9:06 pm (EST) on Thursday April 25th. Just do it Steve!

 

[GuernseyCard]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/21/kyler-murray-2019-nfl-draft-first-round-lincoln-riley

Picture Murray holding up a #1 Cardinals jersey at 9:06 pm (EST) on Thursday April 25th. Just do it Steve!

Picture me...

 

[Buckybird]

I don't think anyone should be taking a victory lap on Baker Mayfield yet...just saying.

I hear ya but he’s yet to have a bad season for 4 straight seasons plus his HS career. Chances are his high level of play is a trend at this point! In fact he’s been spectacular.

He’s not Matt Leinart who was possibly ruined by collarbone injuries & a HC whom it appeared never really believed in him.

I’m calling a spade a spade & it looks like an ace lol

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I take it you were also convinced that Goff wouldn't add up to much after his first season, right?

I didn't see enough of Goff to form an opinion on him.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I didn't see enough of Goff to form an opinion on him.

Take my word for it: Worst than Rosen.

 

[Russ Smith]

My concern with Murray is not so much the height but the windup before he releases it. He's got a zippy arm, and he can run, and he's obviously a great athlete, Russell Wilson is a good comparison I think he has a stronger arm than RW does. But he has a long release. If you look at highight reels you'll see on lots of the longer deep throws to wide open guys the Wr has to slow down or outright stop and jump to catch the ball. I don't think it's lack of arm strength some of these balls are 50 plus yards downfield, I think it's because he has a long release so even though he may recognize the guys open fast enough, it takes him longer to deliver it.

That can be a problem in the NFL as Blake Bortles has proven. big strong guy with a great arm but he winds up before he throws it so he's often late on throws.

NFL WR's don't get 10 yards behind the defense the way OU's Wr's do, so if they have to slow down or stop it's going to get broken up or intercepted far more often.

If I knew he could get that hitch out of his delivery, I would be far more convinced.

 

[ARZCardinals]

not sure how either help the putrid offensive line. Till that's taken care of the offense isn't going anywhere.
They can't run block and a stop sign would be better at pass protection. Rosen averaged 2.1 seconds before being physically hit....count it out in your head...hut hut hike drop back and a 325lb man is already hitting you....he can't run an offense at all with the line...if that's not everyone's 1st priority...you don't know football.

 

[JeffGollin]

Murray is also 5’8 with tiny and I mean tiny hands....No one has ever succeeded with his size. It just doesn’t happen

Buddy Young (but he didn't play QB).

 

[Krangodnzr]

My concern with Murray is not so much the height but the windup before he releases it. He's got a zippy arm, and he can run, and he's obviously a great athlete, Russell Wilson is a good comparison I think he has a stronger arm than RW does. But he has a long release. If you look at highight reels you'll see on lots of the longer deep throws to wide open guys the Wr has to slow down or outright stop and jump to catch the ball. I don't think it's lack of arm strength some of these balls are 50 plus yards downfield, I think it's because he has a long release so even though he may recognize the guys open fast enough, it takes him longer to deliver it.

That can be a problem in the NFL as Blake Bortles has proven. big strong guy with a great arm but he winds up before he throws it so he's often late on throws.

NFL WR's don't get 10 yards behind the defense the way OU's Wr's do, so if they have to slow down or stop it's going to get broken up or intercepted far more often.

If I knew he could get that hitch out of his delivery, I would be far more convinced.

And look at how clean his pockets are. Look at how big the holes he runs through are. It's scary, because a lot of his big throws, the closest defender is 7 yards away and he's throwing to a receiver with 10 yards of separation.

OU just out talented and out coached so many of their opponents. How will Kyler Murray play when facing the pressure Rosen faced?

 

[TJ]

So easy to sit back and stay "yeah, but he might have a bad year next year".

That one's a little on the weak side Chopper.

What's wrong with what Chopper said? People were frothing at the mouth about RGIII and Dak Prescott after their first seasons. RGIII has been worthless since his rookie year and Dak has been relatively average.

Making conclusions about any of the 5 first-round QBs from last season today is premature.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

What's wrong with what Chopper said? People were frothing at the mouth about RGIII and Dak Prescott after their first seasons. RGIII has been worthless since his rookie year and Dak has been relatively average.

Making conclusions about any of the 5 first-round QBs from last season today is premature.

It just felt like kind of a sour grapes post (but I think Chopper is generally a great poster). Like "yeah he did good, but he still might suck". Really?

Didn't care for the sentiment.

 

[WildBB]

not sure how either help the putrid offensive line. Till that's taken care of the offense isn't going anywhere.
They can't run block and a stop sign would be better at pass protection. Rosen averaged 2.1 seconds before being physically hit....count it out in your head...hut hut hike drop back and a 325lb man is already hitting you....he can't run an offense at all with the line...if that's not everyone's 1st priority...you don't know football.

It's obviously THE priority. Kiem has admitted it also. But you have to play as dealt. There's one real no brainer at #1 currently. There could be moves made though, depending how FA shakes out and offers made.