Charles Barkley: The Suns 'pinning themselves in a corner' with 3-guard system

[KloD]

Assuming the age next to both yours and BC's profile is accurate, why is it so ridiculous for me to think that?

Even if BC became a Suns fan at the very latest at the age of 27 (I would guess that he became a Suns fan at a much earlier age than this though), he would still have been a longer Suns fan than your age itself.

And I know very well what I'm talking about. The following quote, whether you like it or not, is considered an attack/insult.

Who the hell cares how long he or I have been a fan? What relevance does it have? None. Absolutely zero. It sounds like a child's logic.

You folks seem awful sensitive for how freely you throw around insults at others. Those by the way are attacks/insults, my suggesting someone find a better more productive and healthy way to spend there time is not. I asked, even said please. Can't get more polite than that. I didn't demand. You don't like what I have to say, use your own advice.

 

[Iceman]

If this name calling and attacking each other keeps going then we are going to shut down this thread. Everyone has their own opinions and if you don't agree, then just state your opinion, opposed to attacking each other. This is a great topic/thread and would hate to close it out

 

[Mainstreet]

I think one of the things missing from this discussion is that McDonough has wants to acquire star players in any manner possible. IMO, he feels he has found one (or potentially found one) in Brandon Knight. I don't see him giving up the Lakers pick unless he was sold on the potential of Knight to be just that. If not, he will reshuffle the deck again.

 

[KloD]

I think one of the things missing from this discussion is that McDonough has wants to acquire star players in any manner possible. IMO, he feels he has found one (or potentially found one) in Brandon Knight. I don't see him giving up the Lakers pick unless he was sold on the potential of Knight to be just that. If not, he will reshuffle the deck again.

That's valid, but I think it's not necessarily that they believe him to be a "star", more that he's better than anything they could get for 6-10 pick in this years draft.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's valid, but I think it's not necessarily that they believe him to be a "star", more that he's better than anything they could get for 6-10 pick in this years draft.

The Suns were unlikely to get the Lakers pick in this draft because of the protection on the pick.

 

[Covert Rain]

The degree you and yours stretch facts to fit your perceptions is acrobatic. Your belief is to let the players dictate how the team is run, Mine is the opposite. You like to bitch and moan about the Suns management not bending to selfish individuals, I applaud them for not. You believe you have all the answers and whine about be entitled to your opinion, yet the fact that every time you throw your nasty remarks at the Suns front office for their decisions, you are in turn insulting others who happen to agree with them. You don't know how to just disagree, you take it to the extreme and insult their intelligence. Lastly, you are in left field. The Suns have not once taken a step back and changed strategy. They got rid of selfish prima donna's who were not team players. They brought in someone else. If that one turns out to be another guy who is only out for themselves, they will get rid of him and try again. You seriously need to find a new team. I hear the Heat have a lot of openings with many of their fans throwing in their support for Cleveland. Think about it... please.

Wow...where to begin. That was an Olympic size leap you just took there. So, when someone calls out this front office for bonehead mistakes (they have made a ton), it's insulting posters who support the front office and calling them idiots?!?!? What?!?!?! That leap was amazing. So....logically the converse must be true. When someone blindly supports the front office, all the people who feel they made mistakes are being called idiots by "You and yours" (which was an insulting way of grouping us idiots together).

If that logic even made sense.....Pot meet Kettle. However, it makes zero sense. I think one can form an opposing opinion without actually having the intent of calling someone an idiot.

My gosh....there are a ton of people on this board that have varying opinions but I don't make the leap they are idiots because we disagree. Sounds like something you might do and are projecting it on everyone else. Wow. Personally I love this fan base and respect the hell out of many people I tend to disagree with here. I would sit down and have a beer with 99% of the posters here.

Also, asking someone to find another team simply because they disagree with your take on the Front Office is completely Bush League. Why can't we all just have varying opinions and leave it at that? Why does a difference of opinion equate to "better fan" or "loyal fan" or mean one has to find a different team?

You don't think the FO has screwed the pooch. Some of us do. I am OK with you having a different take. Don't project your assumption that I am calling people who don't agree with me idiots. That sounds like a leap you take personally when you disagree with folks. I think the fan base, no matter how much we disagree, is a pretty damn smart one here.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I just don't see that many mistakes by this front office in the rebuilding process.

1. Can't see how resigning Bledsoe was a mistake. His deal is market value and you cannot let an asset like that walk.
2. IT was an insurance signing. You don't buy an insurance policy and then get angry because you cannot use it. He was traded for a young player and a pick. We gave up nothing except cash.
3. Handling the Goran situation. Meh. He was not a player we could build a championship team around. He wanted to run the team all by himself, yet he does not have the distribution skills for that role, and he is a sub par defender. He is going to get a $20 m per year offer. We turned him to two picks, unprotected or slightly protected. OK. I liked Goran, but not that much.
4. Trading the Laker pick. Legit gripe. They think Knight will be worth it. We will see. I doubt it.

So, my only real gripe is trading the Laker pick. They are still rebuilding. I will be interested to see where they are when this is over.

 

[Mainstreet]

I just don't see that many mistakes by this front office in the rebuilding process.

1. Can't see how resigning Bledsoe was a mistake. His deal is market value and you cannot let an asset like that walk.
2. IT was an insurance signing. You don't buy an insurance policy and then get angry because you cannot use it. He was traded for a young player and a pick. We gave up nothing except cash.
3. Handling the Goran situation. Meh. He was not a player we could build a championship team around. He wanted to run the team all by himself, yet he does not have the distribution skills for that role, and he is a sub par defender. He is going to get a $20 m per year offer. We turned him to two picks, unprotected or slightly protected. OK. I liked Goran, but not that much.
4. Trading the Laker pick. Legit gripe. They think Knight will be worth it. We will see. I doubt it.

So, my only real gripe is trading the Laker pick. They are still rebuilding. I will be interested to see where they are when this is over.

I think trading the Minnesota pick might be a mistake if Wright does not re-sign with the Suns but I am picky.

 

[Covert Rain]

I just don't see that many mistakes by this front office in the rebuilding process.

1. Can't see how resigning Bledsoe was a mistake. His deal is market value and you cannot let an asset like that walk.
2. IT was an insurance signing. You don't buy an insurance policy and then get angry because you cannot use it. He was traded for a young player and a pick. We gave up nothing except cash.
3. Handling the Goran situation. Meh. He was not a player we could build a championship team around. He wanted to run the team all by himself, yet he does not have the distribution skills for that role, and he is a sub par defender. He is going to get a $20 m per year offer. We turned him to two picks, unprotected or slightly protected. OK. I liked Goran, but not that much.
4. Trading the Laker pick. Legit gripe. They think Knight will be worth it. We will see. I doubt it.

So, my only real gripe is trading the Laker pick. They are still rebuilding. I will be interested to see where they are when this is over.

I am probably more in the middle when it comes to personnel. I think the team did the right thing by rebuilding young and getting rid of some of the older guys. I think they have done a great job in acquiring assets.

Actually, my biggest issue with the front office has been around strategy which has impacted who we have drafted and traded for. This guard strategy is abysmal IMO which they seem to be forging ahead with. Trading half your roster speaks volumes.

So in essence a mixed bag!

 

[elindholm]

1. Can't see how resigning Bledsoe was a mistake. His deal is market value and you cannot let an asset like that walk.
2. IT was an insurance signing. You don't buy an insurance policy and then get angry because you cannot use it.

Bledsoe was an RFA. If the Suns were committed to re-signing him, they didn't need Thomas as an insurance policy. The only way they could have lost Bledsoe was if (a) someone offered him the max and the Suns decided not to match, even though they said they would, or (b) he took the one-year escape contract, in which case the Suns would have had another year to look for his replacement. The handling of Bledsoe and Thomas was inconsistent and/or not properly thought through.

 

[Mainstreet]

Bledsoe was an RFA. If the Suns were committed to re-signing him, they didn't need Thomas as an insurance policy. The only way they could have lost Bledsoe was if (a) someone offered him the max and the Suns decided not to match, even though they said they would, or (b) he took the one-year escape contract, in which case the Suns would have had another year to look for his replacement. The handling of Bledsoe and Thomas was inconsistent and/or not properly thought through.

However, I think the Suns wanted to keep Bledsoe and if he played out his contract it seems unlikely he would have stayed with the Suns although Monroe might stay with the Pistons.

 

[KloD]

The Suns were unlikely to get the Lakers pick in this draft because of the protection on the pick.

Right, but I'm just saying that I believe their thinking wasn't about getting a star in this case. Only that Knight is better than anything they were likely to draft with the pick (with this year, next, or so on...). If Knight turns out to be a star, huge bonus!

 

[Chaz]

I just don't see that many mistakes by this front office in the rebuilding process.

1. Can't see how resigning Bledsoe was a mistake. His deal is market value and you cannot let an asset like that walk.
2. IT was an insurance signing. You don't buy an insurance policy and then get angry because you cannot use it. He was traded for a young player and a pick. We gave up nothing except cash.
3. Handling the Goran situation. Meh. He was not a player we could build a championship team around. He wanted to run the team all by himself, yet he does not have the distribution skills for that role, and he is a sub par defender. He is going to get a $20 m per year offer. We turned him to two picks, unprotected or slightly protected. OK. I liked Goran, but not that much.
4. Trading the Laker pick. Legit gripe. They think Knight will be worth it. We will see. I doubt it.

So, my only real gripe is trading the Laker pick. They are still rebuilding. I will be interested to see where they are when this is over.

Technically I think they turned IT into Thornton and the Cavilers pick this year. (Good return for a FA signing)

The turned Ennis and Plumlee and the Lakers pick into Knight. (high price)

They turned both Dragic brothers into 2 first round picks and matching salaries (Granger and Salmons) they are not going to keep. (better than nothing)


I think many fans are suffering from high expectations after surprising success last year. I know I expected them to take a step forward this season. The problem I think is that they are just a really young team with out any veteran leadership. They have been very inconsistent and suffered from several very close losses. They also suffered loss of focus against teams like Sacramento and Charlotte. 6 games better puts them right in the mix of where I expected they could be.

Over all I think the rebuild is on schedule. They really need that starting power forward to provide consistent defense and rebounding alongside Len. I really like Kieff but I see him as well suited to provide consistent points off the bench rather than starting.

 

[Covert Rain]

It's going to get very interesting depending on how the Knight move works out. It get's more complicated if Knight can't transition to SG. The Suns appear to be putting all the eggs in that basket.

If all things being equal, what if both players seem to be by far more productive at the PG position?

 

[Chaz]

Bledsoe was an RFA. If the Suns were committed to re-signing him, they didn't need Thomas as an insurance policy. The only way they could have lost Bledsoe was if (a) someone offered him the max and the Suns decided not to match, even though they said they would, or (b) he took the one-year escape contract, in which case the Suns would have had another year to look for his replacement. The handling of Bledsoe and Thomas was inconsistent and/or not properly thought through.

I also do not buy the argument that Thomas was insurance.

They thought it would work and it didn't. If you trade a FA that following season for a draft pick it was clearly a mistake. Although the contract was good enough to get value ( a pick and an expiring player).

The drafting and trades have been fine IMO. While the Free Agency returns so far have been less than stellar they haven't locked themselves into anything really stupid yet.

 

[sunsfan88]

It's going to get very interesting depending on how the Knight move works out. It get's more complicated if Knight can't transition to SG. The Suns appear to be putting all the eggs in that basket.

If all things being equal, what if both players seem to be by far more productive at the PG position?

In that case they might pick Knight over Bledsoe since Knight is the better shooter (and you know Suns care more about this than anything else), he's younger and also taller.

 

[Chaz]

It's going to get very interesting depending on how the Knight move works out. It get's more complicated if Knight can't transition to SG. The Suns appear to be putting all the eggs in that basket.

If all things being equal, what if both players seem to be by far more productive at the PG position?

They haven't given up on two attacking point guards. They have doubled down on it.

So far after one game Knight already looks like a better passer than Bledsoe although it isn't too hard to say that.

Bledsoe's passing and decision making has been horrible lately and that is a big problem with the offense.

 

[KloD]

Technically I think they turned IT into Thornton and the Cavilers pick this year. (Good return for a FA signing)

The turned Ennis and Plumlee and the Lakers pick into Knight. (high price)

They turned both Dragic brothers into 2 first round picks and matching salaries (Granger and Salmons) they are not going to keep. (better than nothing)


I think many fans are suffering from high expectations after surprising success last year. I know I expected them to take a step forward this season. The problem I think is that they are just a really young team with out any veteran leadership. They have been very inconsistent and suffered from several very close losses. They also suffered loss of focus against teams like Sacramento and Charlotte. 6 games better puts them right in the mix of where I expected they could be.

Over all I think the rebuild is on schedule. They really need that starting power forward to provide consistent defense and rebounding alongside Len. I really like Kieff but I see him as well suited to provide consistent points off the bench rather than starting.

Overall I agree. Although I think they got a great return for Dragic and Bro. 2 mostly unprotected first round picks for a guy who shouldn't be in the NBA and a aging PG who will be paid way way too much this summer and was either going to walk, or hurt the Suns financially for years to come. I think this was a fantastic trade.

The Thomas trade was essentially a low 2nd round guy who is never going to play in the league for a 1st and Thornton. Great trade.

The Ennis and Plumlee plus pick for Knight will take time to judge accurately. I don't think Plumlee with amount to much. Ennis i have little faith will ever be more than a backup if that. The pick is the gamble, but I think it's a good bet that Knight will be better than anything they would have gotten in the draft with the pick. Well see though.

 

[Mainstreet]

Technically I think they turned IT into Thornton and the Cavilers pick this year. (Good return for a FA signing)

The turned Ennis and Plumlee and the Lakers pick into Knight. (high price)

They turned both Dragic brothers into 2 first round picks and matching salaries (Granger and Salmons) they are not going to keep. (better than nothing)


I think many fans are suffering from high expectations after surprising success last year. I know I expected them to take a step forward this season. The problem I think is that they are just a really young team with out any veteran leadership. They have been very inconsistent and suffered from several very close losses. They also suffered loss of focus against teams like Sacramento and Charlotte. 6 games better puts them right in the mix of where I expected they could be.

Over all I think the rebuild is on schedule. They really need that starting power forward to provide consistent defense and rebounding alongside Len. I really like Kieff but I see him as well suited to provide consistent points off the bench rather than starting.

I think the Cavaliers pick is for 2016, not sure about the protection. I don't think Ennis or Plumlee were in the Suns future plans.

 

[KloD]

It's going to get very interesting depending on how the Knight move works out. It get's more complicated if Knight can't transition to SG. The Suns appear to be putting all the eggs in that basket.

If all things being equal, what if both players seem to be by far more productive at the PG position?

There is nothing that says they can't trade one of them down the road. They will have to pick the one who performs best and go from there. I think there's a good chance they will both be around for a while.

 

[KloD]

I think the Cavaliers pick is for 2016, not sure about the protection. I don't think Ennis or Plumlee were in the Suns future plans.

It is. Top 10 protected. Not sure if it's been posted yet, but the 2017 pick from Miami is top 7 protected for 2 years and loses all protection in 2019.

 

[Mainstreet]

Overall I agree. Although I think they got a great return for Dragic and Bro. 2 mostly unprotected first round picks for a guy who shouldn't be in the NBA and a aging PG who will be paid way way too much this summer and was either going to walk, or hurt the Suns financially for years to come. I think this was a fantastic trade.

The Thomas trade was essentially a low 2nd round guy who is never going to play in the league for a 1st and Thornton. Great trade.

The Ennis and Plumlee plus pick for Knight will take time to judge accurately. I don't think Plumlee with amount to much. Ennis i have little faith will ever be more than a backup if that. The pick is the gamble, but I think it's a good bet that Knight will be better than anything they would have gotten in the draft with the pick. Well see though.

On this we agree.

However, I think IT is underrated. He just got caught in a buzz saw with the Suns.

 

[Mainstreet]

It is. Top 10 protected. Not sure if it's been posted yet, but the 2017 pick from Miami is top 7 protected for 2 years and loses all protection in 2019.

I think the spacing on the Miami picks gives the Suns a better chance that one of the picks will be valuable. After watching McDonough in action though, I don't think he will hesitate to trade the picks if he finds a player he likes. He seems to view draft picks as a means to a goal.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think the spacing on the Miami picks gives the Suns a better chance that one of the picks will be valuable. After watching McDonough in action though, I don't think he will hesitate to trade the picks if he finds a player he likes. He seems to view draft picks as a means to a goal.

Teams pay attention to that too. An unprotected pick is a very valuable trade commodity in the league since protecting picks now seems to be the norm.

 

[Mainstreet]

Teams pay attention to that too. An unprotected pick is a very valuable trade commodity in the league since protecting picks now seems to be the norm.

I think protection on draft picks should be removed by the commissioner on future trades. Also allowing first round picks to turn into second round picks should be disallowed as well.

This is one of my pet peeves.