Territorial Cup 2014

[Mainstreet]

Could not agree more with Bickley! Whoa....can't believe I just said that!

Bickley: ASU coach Todd Graham loyal to a fault

http://azc.cc/1xXjvac

I cannot bring myself to read Bickley. From my perspective, he always seems to wait for something negative to happen and then he throws salt on the wound.

Congratulations to the UofA for a deserved win.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I cannot bring myself to read Bickley. From my perspective, he always seems to wait for something negative to happen and then he throws salt on the wound.

Congratulations to the UofA for a deserved win.

It's more he just stirs the pot to get clicks and ratings.

The legend of Mike Bercovici is solely based on USC absolutely crapping all over themselves in the last two minutes. He's a good QB no doubt but he isn't clearly better than Taylor Kelly. Probably about the same. If Strong doesn't come down with that catch the percentage of Bercovici fanboys would be limited to those minor percentage of weirdos who call for the backup QB no matter what.

Do people not remember the awful pick in his own red zone that ultimately played a huge part in ASU losing on Friday? Or the other bad ball that was picked off but called back? Or that ASU's run game was basically nil in every game he played? The Christiansen-Walter comparison is just absurd and journalistic hackery.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's more he just stirs the pot to get clicks and ratings.

The legend of Mike Bercovici is solely based on USC absolutely crapping all over themselves in the last two minutes. He's a good QB no doubt but he isn't clearly better than Taylor Kelly. Probably about the same. If Strong doesn't come down with that catch the percentage of Bercovici fanboys would be limited to those minor percentage of weirdos who call for the backup QB no matter what.

It's more he just stirs the pot to get clicks and ratings.

The legend of Mike Bercovici is solely based on USC absolutely crapping all over themselves in the last two minutes. He's a good QB no doubt but he isn't clearly better than Taylor Kelly. Probably about the same. If Strong doesn't come down with that catch the percentage of Bercovici fanboys would be limited to those minor percentage of weirdos who call for the backup QB no matter what.

Do people not remember the awful pick in his own red zone that ultimately played a huge part in ASU losing on Friday? Or the other bad ball that was picked off but called back? Or that ASU's run game was basically nil in every game he played? The Christiansen-Walter comparison is just absurd and journalistic hackery.

Like I say, I do not read Bickley.

Taylor Kelly was never the same after his injury. There is a school of thought that once Bercovici took over the reins from Kelly (after the injury) he may have continued to improve if Graham had not returned to Kelly. I think plugging Bercovici into the UofA game in the second half was a recipe for failure, not that the end results would have been different. After Jaelen Strong got banged up, the Sun Devil's chances of winning greatly diminished as he was their big play maker.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I'm not joking. Where did I say anything that is an attempt to be funny?

For me, it goes back to 1992, the only time I've ever seen a game in Tucson, and we won 7-6. I was spit on in the parking lot after the game.

A group of about 8 au fans were walking about 10 feet behind me and my friend. they were yelling profanities, calling us ****, etc. Well, I'm 6'4" 250 and my friend is 6'6" and 225. Two guys in au shirts are walking the other direction, towards us. When they get close, one guy hocks up a bunch of spit and spits all over me. Then, they make the mistake of laughing and walking past me. I guess they thought if they got to the big group behind us nothing would happen. I turn around, grab the guy by the neck of his shirt and by the top of his pants and I throw him as hard as I could to the right. Unfortunately for him, the first part of his body to hit was his face on the bumper of a car. By the shape of his nose and the amount of blood that was pouring from it I'm sure I shattered it. None of the puxxies there did anything about it, just watched the guy start to cry and blubber trying to spit the blood out of his mouth. We just walked off and went home.

So I hate your school because:

1. I hate being spit on.

and

2. I hate hurting people.

It was one of the worst moments of my sports life as a fan or an athlete.

Hmmm seems like a broad sweep of the brush their bub. Would you hate all people from a certain race if you were physically accosted by that race in the late 70's. Lets evolve man

As for why I hate ASU? Oh it is MUCH more sensible. Its a commuter school, ugly spread out brown campus, lack the passion of UA, brings shame to our state (how many pop culture references to how ignorant ASU is are out there? I can think of 6 off the top of my head), you guys shave points, have murderers on your football team, have no academic excellence to speak of, and you are easier to get into then a drunk ASU co-ed. I hate all your coaches, and your AD is another cherry picked clown destined to fail. PLus you all talk the worst smack of anyone.

Other than that? Love you guys

 

[Arizona's Finest]

It's more he just stirs the pot to get clicks and ratings.

The legend of Mike Bercovici is solely based on USC absolutely crapping all over themselves in the last two minutes. He's a good QB no doubt but he isn't clearly better than Taylor Kelly. Probably about the same. If Strong doesn't come down with that catch the percentage of Bercovici fanboys would be limited to those minor percentage of weirdos who call for the backup QB no matter what.

Do people not remember the awful pick in his own red zone that ultimately played a huge part in ASU losing on Friday? Or the other bad ball that was picked off but called back? Or that ASU's run game was basically nil in every game he played? The Christiansen-Walter comparison is just absurd and journalistic hackery.

So true

 

[82CardsGrad]

It's more he just stirs the pot to get clicks and ratings.

The legend of Mike Bercovici is solely based on USC absolutely crapping all over themselves in the last two minutes. He's a good QB no doubt but he isn't clearly better than Taylor Kelly. Probably about the same. If Strong doesn't come down with that catch the percentage of Bercovici fanboys would be limited to those minor percentage of weirdos who call for the backup QB no matter what.

Do people not remember the awful pick in his own red zone that ultimately played a huge part in ASU losing on Friday? Or the other bad ball that was picked off but called back? Or that ASU's run game was basically nil in every game he played? The Christiansen-Walter comparison is just absurd and journalistic hackery.

Taylor Kelly was off all year long. Even before his injury, from the start of the season he was not playing anywhere close to the level he played at in his sophomore and junior seasons. Something was off with him from the get-go.
And as for Bercovici's "legend", didn't he have a strong outing against Stanford? He completed 70% of his passes that day, with a TD and no INT's, while getting zero support from the run game...

Bottom line which few are willing to admit, is that Bercovici is the better QB. Had Kelly even come close to the production and efficiency he reached in the previous two seasons we would not be having this conversation. Graham banked on that and seems to have been "hoping" that the Kelly from the last 2 years would resurface. Sadly, it never happened.
Nonetheless, Kelly will go down as one of the most "successful" QB's in ASU history. Definitely not one of the "best", but from a wins & losses perspective, hard to argue with the record Kelly put up.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Taylor Kelly was off all year long. Even before his injury, from the start of the season he was not playing anywhere close to the level he played at in his sophomore and junior seasons. Something was off with him from the get-go.
And as for Bercovici's "legend", didn't he have a strong outing against Stanford? He completed 70% of his passes that day, with a TD and no INT's, while getting zero support from the run game...

Bottom line which few are willing to admit, is that Bercovici is the better QB. Had Kelly even come close to the production and efficiency he reached in the previous two seasons we would not be having this conversation. Graham banked on that and seems to have been "hoping" that the Kelly from the last 2 years would resurface. Sadly, it never happened.
Nonetheless, Kelly will go down as one of the most "successful" QB's in ASU history. Definitely not one of the "best", but from a wins & losses perspective, hard to argue with the record Kelly put up.

Perhaps he's marginally better, hard to say since the sample size isn't there.

But he certainly wasn't good against UCLA nor Arizona. If that deep INT wasn't called back then Graham probably ends up going back to Kelly and looking like a complete clown. However my point was more that Bickley's article is pure hackery. You would think John Elway was sitting on the bench in favor of John Skelton.

The one thing I hear the Bercovici crowd not conveniently mention is the ASU defense allowing 35 to Oregon State and UA almost all on 20+ yard plays.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Perhaps he's marginally better, hard to say since the sample size isn't there.

But he certainly wasn't good against UCLA nor Arizona. If that deep INT wasn't called back then Graham probably ends up going back to Kelly and looking like a complete clown. However my point was more that Bickley's article is pure hackery. You would think John Elway was sitting on the bench in favor of John Skelton.

The one thing I hear the Bercovici crowd not conveniently mention is the ASU defense allowing 35 to Oregon State and UA almost all on 20+ yard plays.

Oh, make no mistake, Bickley LOVES to pounce when the wounds are opened wide. That said, I believe he makes many valid points here.
Also, totally agree that the defense was putrid... But, honestly, is that really all that surprising? I mean, more than half of them on the field are freshman or JuCo transfers new to the system... I've been amazed that somehow, Graham has gotten them to play as competitively as they have throughout the season. Overall, that unit IMHO has actually over-achieved this year.
In the end, the Pac-12, as much as any other conference, is about scoring - period. If you don't have a QB that can put up points, you are toast. Kelly did this very well the past 2 seasons. He sucked at it this year. And, when his team needed him most in big games (Oregon St and UofA), he failed miserably. His reads, decision-making and accuracy were simply putrid. It's been said that for reasons not entirely known, Kelly started this season with significantly less confidence that he had the prior two years. Who knows why... Maybe he felt the pressure of this being his last year and wanting to go out on a huge high. Trying to improve on his past 2 years is a tall order and can bring a huge amount of pressure.
Doug from the Doug & Wolf show, who does the sideline reporting for all ASU games mentioned this morning that for the first time - ever, both Graham and Norvell were laying into Kelly throughout the game against UofA. He said they were screaming at him (and everyone within earshot heard it), "we went over this several times!", "this isn't anything new!"...
For some odd reason, Kelly lost "it"... It's a shame and truly one of the more tragic ends to an otherwise awesome career. Particularly to such a great, truly great human being.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I think the love on Berco is two parts 1) everyone loves the Backup QB because of the unknown opposed to the certainty of a limited TK in 2014 and 2) He more looks the part then Kelly i.e bigger arm, better mobility, fire in the eyes.

Personally although I get the hindsight complaints of ASU fans, I am not sure there was much of a move Graham could make based on what Kelly did for you guys last 1.5 years. To pull him as a Senior would have hurt the message to the team IMO and diluted his credibility.

The problem is Kelly didnt show up his Senior year whether it was injury or otherwise.

 

[ajcardfan]

Hmmm seems like a broad sweep of the brush their bub. Would you hate all people from a certain race if you were physically accosted by that race in the late 70's. Lets evolve man

As for why I hate ASU? Oh it is MUCH more sensible. Its a commuter school, ugly spread out brown campus, lack the passion of UA, brings shame to our state (how many pop culture references to how ignorant ASU is are out there? I can think of 6 off the top of my head), you guys shave points, have murderers on your football team, have no academic excellence to speak of, and you are easier to get into then a drunk ASU co-ed. I hate all your coaches, and your AD is another cherry picked clown destined to fail. PLus you all talk the worst smack of anyone.

Other than that? Love you guys

I don't hate you, mao, other au fans on this board, I hate your school.

That help any?

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't hate you, mao, other au fans on this board, I hate your school.

That help any?

The school didn't spit on you, some dumb fan did, and if you think ASU does not have any fans that are just as disgusting (or worse) you're kidding yourself.

I was at an ASU/UofA basketball game in Tempe aboout... 10-12 years ago, it was one of ASU's rare victories over Arizona and I saw a dude wearing Wildcat gear in a WHEEL CHAIR get a coke dumped on his head by an ASU fan who then ran off laughing with his buddies.

 

[Mainstreet]

The school didn't spit on you, some dumb fan did, and if you think ASU does not have any fans that are just as disgusting (or worse) you're kidding yourself.

I was at an ASU/UofA basketball game in Tempe aboout... 10-12 years ago, it was one of ASU's rare victories over Arizona and I saw a dude wearing Wildcat gear in a WHEEL CHAIR get a coke dumped on his head by an ASU fan who then ran off laughing with his buddies.

The ASU/ UofA rivalry could be much improved if a minority of fans from both schools would quit hating on each other. This behavior should not be tolerated. I think it's up to the ADs and coaches to lead the way.

 

[TJ]

The ASU/ UofA rivalry could be much improved if a minority of fans from both schools would quit hating on each other. This behavior should not be tolerated. I think it's up to the ADs and coaches to lead the way.

Good luck with that. You can't boil the ocean in that regard. There will always be malcontents on both sides regardless of whatever PSA the ADs do. I've stayed away from ASU during Asu/UofA games due to porous behavior and overall concern for my personal safety.

As a matter of fact, it's going to get worse now that both teams are competitive, playing for national recognition, and equally talented.

 

[TJ]

I don't hate you, mao, other au fans on this board, I hate your school.



That help any?

No one hates each other personally (I hope), but if you're going to dish out the trash talk, you need to be able to take it in return.

To AZF's point--ASU smack against UofA is generally very weak and unoriginal, which is why I teed off on the au smack. Too easy.

And no, the school did nothing to you; an individual did. You can use sweeping generalizations, but that's just silly.

 

[82CardsGrad]

No one hates each other personally (I hope), but if you're going to dish out the trash talk, you need to be able to take it in return.

To AZF's point--ASU smack against UofA is generally very weak and unoriginal, which is why I teed off on the au smack. Too easy.

And no, the school did nothing to you; an individual did. You can use sweeping generalizations, but that's just silly.

FWIW, from a non-Arizonian who didn't attend either school, who has a daughter at ASU and many friends who have kids who attend or have attended both schools... I have lived here in AZ for close to 14 years now...

BOTH schools are tremendous organizations. BOTH schools have produced great contributors to our society and are BOTH very, very sound and respected academic institutions. And yes, BOTH schools have achieved their own respective success with regard to athletics. And like ALL schools, BOTH have their own blemishes...

I come from the NY Metropolitan area (sorry Mulli ), and attended college in Rhode Island. I've been to just about every Ivy League school and many other well-respected colleges & universities throughout the northeast. They ALL have their strengths and weaknesses.
And so I find it comical to watch the grenade tossing that goes on between the UA and ASU crowds...
I think any of you who have graduated from either university has every right to feel immense pride and accomplishment from earning a degree from 2 terrific and well-respect institutions.

That is all... I'll now put my helmet back on to protect from the collateral damage caused by the grenades!

 

[ozzfloyd]

I graduated from BOTH UA and ASU. ;-)

 

[Mainstreet]

I graduated from BOTH UA and ASU. ;-)

Interesting. How do you handle the ASU/ UofA rivalry?

 

[Mainstreet]

Good luck with that. You can't boil the ocean in that regard. There will always be malcontents on both sides regardless of whatever PSA the ADs do. I've stayed away from ASU during Asu/UofA games due to porous behavior and overall concern for my personal safety.

As a matter of fact, it's going to get worse now that both teams are competitive, playing for national recognition, and equally talented.

It is getting harder each year to enjoy these rivalry games. Perhaps toxic is the word. I remember when it didn't used to be this bad.

 

[ajcardfan]

No one hates each other personally (I hope), but if you're going to dish out the trash talk, you need to be able to take it in return.

To AZF's point--ASU smack against UofA is generally very weak and unoriginal, which is why I teed off on the au smack. Too easy.

And no, the school did nothing to you; an individual did. You can use sweeping generalizations, but that's just silly.

I don't feel like I "didn't take it". Nothing you said bothered me at all about my intelligence, etc. I just explained why I like to refer to your school as au, and that I transferred that term from the Aggies-Horns rivalry.

Really, no biggie, but I will keep using au and don't feel the slightest bothered by your opinion of my usage of it. It's simple, and it's awesome. Only two letters, yet it is belittling.

 

[ajcardfan]

It is getting harder each year to enjoy these rivalry games. Perhaps toxic is the word. I remember when it didn't used to be this bad.

For the longest time, after I transferred back to school here in 1990, I complained that this rivalry was too friendly to rate with the tops in the nation. Yes, it has gotten more heated recently, but when one team sucks it regresses to "bleh".

 

[Mainstreet]

For the longest time, after I transferred back to school here in 1990, I complained that this rivalry was too friendly to rate with the tops in the nation. Yes, it has gotten more heated recently, but when one team sucks it regresses to "bleh".

I've yet to see a "bleh" ASU/ UofA football game. These games have been heated since I can remember. This is not to say the talent level has always been equal. However, from my perspective the disrespect by fans on both sides has greatly increased over the years.

 

[ozzfloyd]

Interesting. How do you handle the ASU/ UofA rivalry?

Some background:

I was born in Phoenix, spent most of my youth living in Tucson in the 80s (so I really had no choice but to fall in love with UA basketball), did my undergrad at UA. Then I spent 5 years in Tempe in grad school and doing research.

So anyway, I am first and foremost a UA sports fan, was indoctrinated at a young age. I will root for ASU in virtually every game where they're not facing UA. That pretty much sums it up.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Hmmm seems like a broad sweep of the brush their bub. Would you hate all people from a certain race if you were physically accosted by that race in the late 70's. Lets evolve man

As for why I hate ASU? Oh it is MUCH more sensible. Its a commuter school, ugly spread out brown campus, lack the passion of UA, brings shame to our state (how many pop culture references to how ignorant ASU is are out there? I can think of 6 off the top of my head), you guys shave points, have murderers on your football team, have no academic excellence to speak of, and you are easier to get into then a drunk ASU co-ed. I hate all your coaches, and your AD is another cherry picked clown destined to fail. PLus you all talk the worst smack of anyone.

Other than that? Love you guys

there

than

(Generously overlooking your lack of punctuation in spots and the wrong tense used at least once)

Where did you go to school again?

BIM

 

[Mainstreet]

Some background:

I was born in Phoenix, spent most of my youth living in Tucson in the 80s (so I really had no choice but to fall in love with UA basketball), did my undergrad at UA. Then I spent 5 years in Tempe in grad school and doing research.

So anyway, I am first and foremost a UA sports fan, was indoctrinated at a young age. I will root for ASU in virtually every game where they're not facing UA. That pretty much sums it up.

So first love.

I spent most of my life living in Phoenix. It was hard to beat watching the Sun Devils in baseball, basketball and football under coaches Bobby Winkles, Ned Wulk and Frank Kush respectively. When it came to going to college it was only natural I would make the choice to become a Sun Devil.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

there

than

(Generously overlooking your lack of punctuation in spots and the wrong tense used at least once)

Where did you go to school again?

BIM

One in a line of many AZ "Finest" delusional rants. It's hilarious how he can look at two schools that are essentially the same in terms of student population/academics and make U of A out to be a USC/UCLA/Stanford type environment. Even better, he brings up the vastly superior U of A academics (insert laugh here), and continues to make spelling/grammar mistakes that would embarrass a grade schooler.

Newsflash Skippy - ASU is U of A, two hours away, in a much better area. (not Tucson) It's nice to be able to step off campus and not feel like you're in a third world country!

I guess we shouldn't be surprised - we're talking about the same guy who made a name for himself fighting valiantly for the honor of his boys Leinart/Kolb. What can you do other than laugh? Congrats again on your degree from the Harvard of the West!