Path to The Draft Aftermath

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
So here are some thoughts one week later:

1. It felt oh so good to hear and watch Roger Goodell get soundly booed when he went to the podium to start the proceedings. Here is an egregiously overpaid "master of the universe" slash tsar of the pro football world who remains vastly out of touch with the people who matter most in the NFL: the fans. Not to mention the draftees (and hopefuls), most of whom are forced to endure weeks and months of intense scrutiny and then three days of what often is an excruciating process. Moreover, it seemed very clear that the teams themselves were annoyed by the two week postponement of the draft. Not only that, so were the veterans. Peyton Manning expressed his frustration through hyperbole by asking, "Whenever the draft gets here, when is it? In September?"

2. My own particular thoughts on the draft coverage, for right or for wrong, are as follows:

* I have grown a very fond appreciation for the NFL Network, this year more than ever. Normally from 7-8 PM I have been in the habit of watching Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy, but over the past few months I have been glued to The Path to the Draft---and for what they offered this long draft season I would award them with an Emmy. Their entire cast (most notably Daniel Jeremiah, Charles Davis, Charlie Casserly, Brian Baldinger and Curtis Conway) have an astonishingly strong chemistry and a penchant for generating insightful and passionate debate and analysis. I love the way they analyzed each team's depth charts and draft needs and how they projected players at each of the team's top three picks. Moreover, they didn't simply dwell on the most highly rated prospects---they consistently spoke about sleepers and under the radar prospects. Curtis Conway was high on Deone Bucannon from day one and had the conviction to promote Bucannon as a first round talent. Each night they offered a "First Draft" profile of a prospect that included game tape footage and interviews with the prospect---and on numerous occasions they brought prospects into the studio for interviews with the panel. Plus---there was often good, genuine humor. That Charlie Casserly is an old school hoot.

* Plus---the NFL Network crew do such a great job at the Combine. Rich Eisen and Mike Mayock are fantastic in their roles. Again, highly knowledgeable, perspicacious and funny.

* As much as I wanted to support NFL Network the first night of the draft---the one guy that keeps me glued to ESPN is Jon Gruden, who, in my mind is this generation's John Madden.

* Thus, with Gruden off the set for night two, i was determined to switch over to NFL Network, however, for whatever the reason, I just can't help being annoyed by Brian Billick. He tries to come across as professorial, but I can't recall ever feeling enlightened by anything he says. So, I switched back to the Mel and Todd show. I still like Mel---he really hasn't skipped a beat---but I've never really bought into McShay, who strikes me as a Mel wannabe. I do, however, like Trent Dilfer---there's nothing spectacular about him, but he seems to get to the gist of the matter.

* On Saturday, with Billick off the set I stayed with NFL Network, especially because the "Path to the Draft" crew was well represented on the panel and they had Charlie Casserly in the wings.

* What the NFL network now needs is its own version of Adam Shefter or Chris Mortensen---a real good insider could take their coverage to a new level.

3. To me the Belle of the Ball in this draft was Johnny Manziel. He was the top story. Jadaveon Clowney has rare talent, no question, but he's not a magnetic personality. Whether you doubt Manziel or not, he is lightning in a bottle and can do things with the football that are unique. He has the Houdini-like escapability of Fran Tarkenton paired with the bravado of Joe Namath.

What this draft proved to me is that the NFL is not ready for Johnny Football. QB guru George Whitfield, Jr. said it best when he was advising his protogees: "it's not where you are drafted that matters, it's what team that drafts you that matters."

I think that Blake Bortles was a the right fit at Jacksonville. And, no question, he would have been the right fit in Arizona had the Cardinals been in position to draft him. However, for what BA wants in a QB, Logan Thomas may well eventually be the steal of this draft.

Regarding Manziel, I think the Cardinals dodged a major bullet when the Rams passed on him and Bortles for that matter. The reality is the Rams, as currently constituted, were not a good fit for Manziel. Nor were the Cardinals. And that's OK. The best team for Manziel would have been Seattle. They would know how to use him. Alas, for Johnny, he winded up being taken by the wrong team. Already the Browns have shown that they do not understand the player they traded up to get in round one. When the Seahawks drafted Russell Wilson in round three, they had the foresight to assure Wilson that he would have the chance to compete for the starting job. They never said to Wilson that he better behave like a backup.

Manziel is the type of player and personality that a team has to go "all in" for. Twenty-one teams passed on him because they were not prepared to go all in. And even the team that took him isn't.

Manziel, however, might do a Kurt Warner and just take over the show as Warner did in Arizona. Warner was never going to behave like a backup and neither will Manziel. At least Warner had the veterans on his side. Thus far it appears the veterans in Cleveland are non-plussed with the arrival of Johnny Football.

4. As much as I was hopeful for Teddy Bridgewater to get his just due in this draft...in my mind, he did about as stupid a thing as a young QB can do by announcing that he was glad he wasn't picked by Cleveland. I do not think he and the staff at Minnesota are a good match either, but I was happy at first to see him taken in the first round. Now---not so much.

5. Similarly I was elated to see Michael Sam be drafted and found myself feeling very positive thoughts about Jeff Fisher for making the pick happen. But I think the taping of Sam's phone call reaction was a mistake on Sam's part because he was risking that his story become more of a spectacle than it already is. I have no problems with him kissing his partner or anything like that---and no problems with him crying (just as any other player does)---but Sam should have taken a page out of Jason Collins' book by not letting the media exploit and/or sensationalize the situation. Now after claiming that all he wants is to focus on is football (which should have been the priority all along) he at least temporarily had approved of a reality TV show---which is the last thing he or the Rams would ever want. One can only imagine what the Rams are thinking now, even if the TV show has now been put on hold.

6. I think most of us knew going into the draft that the Rams and 49ers were going to bring in a mother lode of talent. The Seahawks are always going to draft well, regardless of where they pick. But, as crazy as this might sound, their drafts weren't as stellar as I thought they would be. My biggest worry with the Rams was that they would draft a QB who could get them over the hump. They did not. My biggest worry with the 49ers was that they would draft Brandin Cooks or Odell Beckham, Jr. They did not. My biggest worry with the Seahawks was that they would draft a high impact offensive lineman---yet they reached for T Justin Britt late in round two, instead. The one player that concerns me the most is DT Aaron Donald, especially in light of the uncertainty the Cardinals have at RG. However, it would seem to me that G Earl Watford is the type of athletic guard who can match up reasonably well versus Donald's quickness, if Watford can hone his techniques. In addition, I was worried that the 49ers would draft Jimmy Garoppolo who strikes me as a QB who can be super efficient. I know this may sound crazy, but I am not sold on Colin Kaepernick.

7. The Cardinals' draft to me is representative and emblematic of Bruce Arians' patience. Arians is teaching this team and organization about the patience it takes to win football games. Like the patience it takes to stay committed to the running game, when you know the temptation is to air it out as often as possible. We've had other coaches insist that the running game is a key part of the plan---but we haven't seen the commitment and patience at work in the games on a consistent basis. That is until last season, especially down the 7-2 stretch.

At #20 with WR Brandin Cooks staring them in the face Steve Keim traded down. Keim, in cahoots with Arians, knew that the "bully" safety with length and speed that they coveted would not be on the board at #52. So, they traded down to a spot where they could take Deone Bucannon and they knew all along that with that extra third rounder they were going to take their speed WR in John Brown. That was their plan.

In the second round, I was at first surprised to see Keim and BA tab TE Troy Niklas. I figured that signing John Carlson and Jake Ballard to go with Housler and the tandem of Fells and Hardy would have sufficed for this year. But, really...what was the best way to improve the running game in BA's offense? Draft a big, tough blocking TE---and they got the best one in the draft.

Having missed out on a pass rusher---aside from Jadaveon Clowney---is there a longer, more athletically suited rusher in the draft than Kareem Martin? BA&SK had said they wanted to get longer and more athletic at the position---

John Brown is just as fast and a little taller than Brandin Cooks and he has been flashing some route running polish and excellent hands in practice thus far.

Logan Thomas---was there a more physically talented QB in this draft than "Juggs"?

Ed Stinson in the fifth round bolsters the interior depth and WR Walter Powell once again show us the depth of the Cardinals' scouting radar because Powell wasn't just some throw in pick, not in the sixth round with all kinds of other talent still on the board. They believe Powell can be the ideal #4 or #5 WR because he had excellent RAC ability and he can be a magnetic force on STs.

Patience.

George Whitfield, Jr. said it best about what team a player gets drafted by. Look at what our draft picks have going for them, aside from having a head coach and staff who love to coach up rookies and play them as soon as they are ready:

Bucannon---comes into a secondary with Patrick Peterson, Tyrann Mathieu and Antonio Cromartie.

Niklas---comes into an offense that stresses the TE position.

Martin---gets to learn his craft from Tom Pratt, John Abraham and Calais Campbell.

Brown---gets to learn his craft from Larry Fitzgerald, Michael Floyd and Ted Ginn, Jr.

Thomas---gets to learn the offense and fundamentals from Carson Palmer and Drew Stanton...oh and some guy name Tom Moore.

Stinson---gets to learn his craft from Darnell Dockett, Calais Campbell and Frostee Rucker.

Powell---gets to learn his craft from Fitz, Floyd, Ginn and Justin Bethel.

Welcome to the Arizona Cardinals where "team is what it takes."
 
Last edited:

RugbyMuffin

ASFN IDOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Posts
30,485
Reaction score
4,876
Wow.

Mitch, that was a really well written post, dare I say "article".

I think Ed Stinson is going to be that quiet draft pick that shows real value. He understands his role in the 3-4 defense and I really think he will have a lot of impact on this defense.

You need role player who like to do the dirty work, and Stinson is that guy, IMO.

Personally, I think our fan base has been so used to having to fill needs, and watching coaches/GM/owners have to build up so much of the roster, that a draft like this where they are filling gaps, and roles is a situation where we are just not used to drafting this way.

I REALLY like this draft class. I think Bucannon, Niklas, Brown, and Stinson are going to really help this team starting day 1.

Martin and Thomas are really good investments for the future, and Powell being a 6th round pick is what he is. If he makes the roster, then he is a good pick, IMO.
 

Jetstream Green

Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
29,461
Reaction score
16,602
Location
San Antonio, Texas
Some people here said the Cardinals reached in the draft, I did not see that at all. Of course they had some pass rushers lined up that where selected before they had the chance to pick but the players they picked they clearly liked. They picked them because they where high on their board, regardless of the people (count me as one) asking "who is John Brown" lol
 

82CardsGrad

7 x 70
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Posts
35,475
Reaction score
6,914
Location
Scottsdale
I thought Charles Davis did a tremendous job throughout the draft...surprisingly. And I can't stand Billick!
I think BASK have a feeling about Logan Thomas an are quietly confident about his longer term prospects.
Actually, I really like how they handled this draft. They didn't force what wasn't there. They remained true to their plan all along. They knew their needs and what would fit best with their schemes - and then they executed.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

52brandon

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
Posts
3,407
Reaction score
0
You can't compare Manziel going to Cleveland to Warner going to Arizona. Manziel is a rookie that got too absorbed in partying. Warner already had a SB MVP. If aything, Manziel compares more closely to Matt Leinart IMO
 

Jetstream Green

Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
29,461
Reaction score
16,602
Location
San Antonio, Texas
I actually like Billick because the games he does, he does break things down from a football perspective and does not take sides. Sure, he gets names wrong but for me that is entertainment. Billick does not try to entertain and can have a rather cardboard personality but he is not fake. Gruden to me is pure hyperbole and I cannot stand the act he puts on. I have known a few people who have actually met Gruden in person and he comes across as a arrogant jerk who is antisocial in the sense of "Your below me"... the people I know did not ask for a picture, autograph, or opinion but just said good luck when he coached and he just ignored them
 

desertdawg

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Posts
21,831
Reaction score
1
Location
@Desertdawg777
Good stuff Mitch. I thought it was a good draft as well, even with the Logan reach and our last pick.
 

Catfish

Registered
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Posts
4,551
Reaction score
64
What a great read Mitch. I believe that most of us share your loathing for all things that Roger Goodell represents. The ONLY good thing about the May draft, is that training camp is so much closer now.

I was so proud of how BASK handled the draft. Patience is the perfect word to describe their plan of execution. I am extremely pleased with their results, as the fit would seem to be exactly what was needed. Also welcome was the fact that Steve Keim recognized the contributions of his scouting staff, and appropriately rewarded them by the promotions he made and the restructuring of duties in recognition for that stellar work.

Once again, I am enamoured by the quality of talent and character of each selection that BASK made during this draft. The seem to have continued on with the UDFA selections made. Great value and fit, (especially for this team), in every selection seems to be the result. Of course, things will have to play out in order to prove it, but the look and feel is that BASK did exactly the right thing at the right time.

As with last years results, I am very confident, going forward, that these selections will put us over the top. I feel that our Cardinals are in great position to capture the NFC West as a result.

Once again, Mitch, thank you for your stellar work and insight. We all look forward to your posts, and this one was a great summation of this draft.
 

CFLredzoned

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Posts
1,620
Reaction score
1,129
Location
Melbourne, FL
Yeah, Daniel Jeremiah and Charles Davis were ridiculously smooth together. It seemed like Jeremiah came out of nowhere and all of a sudden, he's their prominent guy. They seemed to have him doing 3 or 4 different shows. Now that Path to the Draft is over, I bet they already have him slotted for a new show to tie us over for the summer.

6. I think most of us knew going into the draft that the Rams and 49ers were going to bring in a mother lode of talent. The Seahawks are always going to draft well, regardless of where they pick. But, as crazy as this might sound, their drafts weren't as stellar as I thought they would be. My biggest worry with the Rams was that they would draft a QB who could get them over the hump. They did not. My biggest worry with the 49ers was that they would draft Brandin Cooks or Odell Beckham, Jr. They did not. My biggest worry with the Seahawks was that they would draft a high impact offensive lineman---yet they reached for T Justin Britt late in round two, instead. The one player that concerns me the most is DT Aaron Donald, especially in light of the uncertainty the Cardinals have at RG. However, it would seem to me that G Earl Watford is the type of athletic guard who can match up reasonably well versus Donald's quickness, if Watford can hone his techniques. In addition, I was worried that the 49ers would draft Jimmy Garoppolo who strikes me as a QB who can be super efficient. I know this may sound crazy, but I am not sold on Colin Kaepernick.

My biggest worry was the Rams picking Sammy Watkins. I thought they would see him as their Larry Fitz for the next 10 years. I was happy to see him go to an inocuous team like the Bills. Are the Rams still weak at receiver? Tevon Austin isn't their #1, is he?

Catfish said:
Once again, I am enamoured by the quality of talent and character of each selection that BASK made during this draft. The seem to have continued on with the UDFA selections made. Great value and fit, (especially for this team), in every selection seems to be the result. Of course, things will have to play out in order to prove it, but the look and feel is that BASK did exactly the right thing at the right time.

I really like Martin, after hearing his interviews. He seems like he has his act together. I think I heard 14 of our last 16 draft picks were team captains in college?
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
15,066
Reaction score
11,797
Good stuff Mitch. And Ray Lewis is the worst thing that ever happened to the draft.
 

az jam

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Posts
12,930
Reaction score
5,064
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Excellent article as usual Mitch. i hope you are right on Logan Thomas. I feel it was a horrible, wasted pick. Will be very happy to eat crow.
 

Totally_Red

Air Raid Warning!
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
Posts
8,577
Reaction score
3,949
Location
Iowa
I thought the presence of Charles Davis and Daniel Jeremiah on the set with Mike Mayock helped NFL Networks' coverage immensely. Not only did they provide another opinion, but they pinch-hit occasionally.

I also enjoyed FSU coach Jimbo Fisher. Finally a college coach that adds to the discussion. If anything, he talked too much. Hope they have him back next year. He is a wealth of knowledge.

Seemed like both NFLN & ESPN stuck more to draft in the early going and didn't get sidetracked as much by peripheral junk. Both did over-cover Johnny Manziel and Michael Sam though.

BTW, nice post Mitch!
 

blindseyed

I'm saying you ARE stuck in Wichita
Joined
Mar 20, 2003
Posts
7,414
Reaction score
4,565
Location
Verrado
Nice Mitch! I like to see the positive attitudes, especially in this part of the year.
It will certainly be a fun pre-season and season in the NFCBest and anyone who says we don't have the toughest division in football needs to go back to watching Glee
 

Gee!

BirdGang
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2003
Posts
26,222
Reaction score
25
Location
Gee From The G
Manziel is the type of player and personality that a team has to go "all in" for. Twenty-one teams passed on him because they were not prepared to go all in. And even the team that took him isn't.

18 teams..
 

MrYeahBut

4 Food groups: beans, chili, cheese, bacon
Supporting Member
Joined
May 20, 2002
Posts
17,731
Reaction score
12,999
Location
Albq
I actually like Billick because the games he does, he does break things down from a football perspective and does not take sides. Sure, he gets names wrong but for me that is entertainment. Billick does not try to entertain and can have a rather cardboard personality but he is not fake. Gruden to me is pure hyperbole and I cannot stand the act he puts on. I have known a few people who have actually met Gruden in person and he comes across as a arrogant jerk who is antisocial in the sense of "Your below me"... the people I know did not ask for a picture, autograph, or opinion but just said good luck when he coached and he just ignored them


Agree. Can't take Gruden at all. Add Eisen to the list. He's too smarmy for me.



.
 

DemsMyBoys

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Posts
12,355
Reaction score
4,561
Location
Cave Creek
Great job, Mitch. And you get extra credit for using the word perspicacious in a post about football.
 

LDL

Veteran
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Posts
462
Reaction score
0
Thanks Mitch for all time you put into your posts. Don't always agree but but your thoughts are appreciated. What don't get is the angst on our 4th round pick... LT is exactly that, a 4th round pick. If he pans out, it is probably the most awesome pick we have had in a generation if he doesn't, well its a 4th round pick.
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
Thanks Mitch for all time you put into your posts. Don't always agree but but your thoughts are appreciated. What don't get is the angst on our 4th round pick... LT is exactly that, a 4th round pick. If he pans out, it is probably the most awesome pick we have had in a generation if he doesn't, well its a 4th round pick.

Do you, and others, think a 4th round pick can be dismissed so easily? Seems to me that if you want to build through the draft that a team needs those 4th round selections to contribute. Every year.

I believe one of the things helping the Cards being more competitive is that they have been getting players like Greg Toler and Sam Acho instead of Elton Brown and Nate Dwyer in the 4th rounds.

Green Bay is often touted as a team that has been one of, if not the best team, built through the draft. They had six of their 4th round picks on the roster last season with four of them starters.

On the other hand it might be only picks 1-3 that are critical and anything you get out of 4-7 is a bonus. The Cards had only 4 players start for them last season taken after the 3rd round (not counting UDFA's). And, something I didn't realize until today, they had 8 former 1st round selections starting last season. 5 of ours and 3 of other teams.

Oh well, just something to discuss during baseball season.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
9,908
Reaction score
6,121
Do you, and others, think a 4th round pick can be dismissed so easily? Seems to me that if you want to build through the draft that a team needs those 4th round selections to contribute. Every year.

I believe one of the things helping the Cards being more competitive is that they have been getting players like Greg Toler and Sam Acho instead of Elton Brown and Nate Dwyer in the 4th rounds.

Green Bay is often touted as a team that has been one of, if not the best team, built through the draft. They had six of their 4th round picks on the roster last season with four of them starters.

On the other hand it might be only picks 1-3 that are critical and anything you get out of 4-7 is a bonus. The Cards had only 4 players start for them last season taken after the 3rd round (not counting UDFA's). And, something I didn't realize until today, they had 8 former 1st round selections starting last season. 5 of ours and 3 of other teams.

Oh well, just something to discuss during baseball season.
Good points. For me I don't think it matters if it's specifically your 4th rounders that are contributing, but at least 1 or 2 of your picks after round 3 in every draft need to be contributors immediately. That mostly goes for special teams, but if you can get 1 that also contributes on the offense or defense in year 1 that is just a bonus IMO. I don't see taking a flier on a high ceiling QB in the 4th round to be a bad thing whatsoever as long as your not doing that every single season.
 

b8rtm8nn

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Posts
3,365
Reaction score
1,641
Location
Tucson
I don't care if we draft the players or another team does and we acquire them later, or if our fiscal management is good or bad - all I really care about is having a well coached football team play with intensity every Sunday to give us a shot at the Superbowl.
 

Jay Cardinal

Die Hard Cardinals Fan
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Posts
1,339
Reaction score
323
Location
Tempe, AZ
Great post. I especially like #6 talking about not being as impressed with the SF and StL drafts. Aaron Donald makes their D-Line impressive, but I am really glad they didn't grab Bortles or Watkins. Also SF made some great picks, but I am not sure they are the best fits. I thought Hyde and Borland are solid players, just not sure how they are going to get on the field with the talent ahead of them. I am not as crazy about Buchannon as others on this board, but I do like him better than Jimmy Ward. I wonder if the 49ers were thinking Buchannon as well?
 

Latest posts

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
537,098
Posts
5,263,825
Members
6,275
Latest member
Beagleperson
Top