Catching Seattle & San Francisco?

[Totally_Red]

Here's Mike Sando's answer to what I asked in his weekly chat....





What must the Cardinals do to catch SF & Seattle?
Mike Sando (1:26 PM)





Upgrade the offensive line and add speed at wide receiver. Those would be two areas where we can expect Arizona to focus this offseason. Getting Jonathan Cooper back from injury will help. Getting another tackle or two would really help. And then we all know Bruce Arians covets the Mike Wallace type of speed receiver. He already has Larry Fitzgerald and Michael Floyd, but he doesn't have that vertical guy. He tried to get one on the cheap by drafting Ryan Swope late, but that did not work out.

 

[PDXChris]

I was listening to a radio show earlier this week and Jay Glazer said that he talked to a couple of players in SF and Harbaugh is starting to ware thin with his antics. He predicted they take a step back and Harbaugh moves on. He thinks Harbaugh is a lot like Bill Parcells and will not stay in one place too long because of his strong personality.

 

[Jay Cardinal]

I agree with his assessment. Defense looks solid. Also need to find a kicker. Tough division, but that makes us a better team in the long run.

 

[BillsCarnage]

I agree with his assessment. Defense looks solid. Also need to find a kicker. Tough division, but that makes us a better team in the long run.

IMO, the line and LB's are fine, but the secondary needs to get bigger, faster and my physical across the board.

As for receivers, SF has the perfect group for this division. A big phyiscal receiver (Boldin), speed (Crabtree) and a TE who is big and can make plays. The Cards have 1/3. Floyd might work out, but like Sando mentions he doesn't stretch the field as much as needed.

 

[CardsFan88]

I really think people are underestimating how badly Arians wants a vertical threat.

We kept bringing in speed receivers last year, and still haven't found one.

If we don't draft one, hopefully we sign Ted Ginn Jr (who could also replace PP on punts, or if not at least be our KO guy instead of run it to the 10 Arenas), or Darrius Heyward-Bey. I know Ginn only made 1.1 million last year (including signing bonus) on a 1 year deal. Bey made quite a bit more at 1 yr 2.5 million total.

It might even be the #1 hole Arians want filled.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I was listening to a radio show earlier this week and Jay Glazer said that he talked to a couple of players in SF and Harbaugh is starting to ware thin with his antics. He predicted they take a step back and Harbaugh moves on. He thinks Harbaugh is a lot like Bill Parcells and will not stay in one place too long because of his strong personality.

That and San Fran has had some suspect drafts.

Yeah, being over the top about everything wears thin, just ask Sam Wysche.

Too bad, I didn't mind Harbaugh this year believe it or not.....still fun to play with his gifs.

What do you think about all this Coach Harbaugh ?

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[Totally_Red]

I really think people are underestimating how badly Arians wants a vertical threat.

We kept bringing in speed receivers last year, and still haven't found one.

If we don't draft one, hopefully we sign Ted Ginn Jr (who could also replace PP on punts, or if not at least be our KO guy instead of run it to the 10 Arenas), or Darrius Heyward-Bey. I know Ginn only made 1.1 million last year (including signing bonus) on a 1 year deal. Bey made quite a bit more at 1 yr 2.5 million total.

It might even be the #1 hole Arians want filled.

I agree! Left tackle and a speed receiver are probably 1A and 1B.

 

[Jay Cardinal]

I really think people are underestimating how badly Arians wants a vertical threat.

We kept bringing in speed receivers last year, and still haven't found one.

If we don't draft one, hopefully we sign Ted Ginn Jr (who could also replace PP on punts, or if not at least be our KO guy instead of run it to the 10 Arenas), or Darrius Heyward-Bey. I know Ginn only made 1.1 million last year (including signing bonus) on a 1 year deal. Bey made quite a bit more at 1 yr 2.5 million total.

It might even be the #1 hole Arians want filled.

I agree, Percy Harvin was awesome in the Super Bowl. Speed receiver is a really important part of the puzzle and Arians has not been shy about it. Ginn and Heyward-Bey both have the speed we are talking about. Also Odell Beckham Jr (LSU), Marquise Lee (USC), and Sammy Watkins (Clemson) have it in the draft.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I agree, Percy Harvin was awesome in the Super Bowl. Speed receiver is a really important part of the puzzle and Arians has not been shy about it. Ginn and Heyward-Bey both have the speed we are talking about. Also Odell Beckham Jr (LSU), Marquise Lee (USC), and Sammy Watkins (Clemson) have it in the draft.

I got two reasons not to have Heyward-Bey on my list:

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But, here are some speed guys the Cardinals may have a shot at, if I may piggyback.

...its is a old list from about a month ago, Beckham is not going to be a 3rd rounder.

Free Agency:

- Jacoby Jones: I think the Ravens would be nuts to let this guy go. A decent receiver, but a deadly Kick Returner. His speed is unquestioned. His price will be the wildcard.

- Tedd Ginn, Jr.: I think the Panthers would be nuts to let this guy go. He has a very quiet year, but a year good year. He still has amazing speed, and his hands are finally catching up to his feet. Another good kick returner as well, and again the price will be the wildcard.

- Emanuel Sanders: Not really a fan of this player. He knows Bruce Arians system, but he is not as fast as you would think, and his hands are not as good as you would think. But, he is used as a burner in the league, so I guess he is.

- Brad Smith [Jets]: Good speed. A decent receiver, and has a lot of skill doing various other things on the field. He may be worth bringing in for a look.


Draft:


- Odell Beckham, Jr., LSU (Round 3): A little high for a a 3rd round guy, but Beckham has what the Cardinals are looking for. A wide receiver that can stretch the defense vertically. He can return kicks, but where the Cardinals need him, and what his role at LSU has always been is a player that can give you "chunk plays".

- Josh Huff, Oregon (Round 3): A little high for a a 3rd round guy, and a little undersized. He is more of a slot guy, but he has speed along with quickness to stretch defenses. If it were between Beckham and Huff, the Cardinals would pick Beckham, but Huff sitting alone, or where to drop, he is a canidate for the speed receiver position.

- Tevin Reese, Baylor (Round 3-5): Again, the Cardinals are not spending a 1st or 2nd round pick on a WR, and it would have to be something special if they were to spend a 3rd round pick. Reese, is the type of player the Cardinals are looking for. Reese has the main thing the Caridnals want, big time speed. His size will make him a slot receiver but as we have seen with Brittan Golden that is not a problem in this offense.

- Jalen Saunders, Oklahoma (Round 5-UDFA): I have already seen this kid's name up on ASFN and for good reason. The biggest knock on the kid is his size. He is small. Yet, his speed is top of the line. His role in the NFL would be the same as it was in college. Stretch the field, and go deep.

 

[CardsFan88]

I agree, Percy Harvin was awesome in the Super Bowl. Speed receiver is a really important part of the puzzle and Arians has not been shy about it. Ginn and Heyward-Bey both have the speed we are talking about. Also Odell Beckham Jr (LSU), Marquise Lee (USC), and Sammy Watkins (Clemson) have it in the draft.

I think Watkins is gone, but I do really like Lee. The problem besides him probably being gone by 20 is we have other needs like LT, SS, WOLB/DE pass rusher, and TE and have invested much in the draft at WR and cap wise. Free agency will help determine alot and whether we can cross or push some of those needs down the list. Though we also might lose Roberts, so I don't think it's out of the question.

Odell Beckham looks to be a good pro receiver as well, but I wouldn't call him a burner. He's got good speed, but not that 5th gear, shiftiness, or sudden acceleration Lee has. Lee plays faster. Has a good acceleration burst.

I feel personally if we want to draft a receiver he needs to have that speed and acceleration we lack for passes over the top, and I see Odell as closer to what we have. But no doubt he is talented. We just already have guys with a similar skillset. I also think anything less then top speed won't work against the Seahawks. We need that extra step Lee or Ginn or Heyward-Bey provides. Also of note is Heyward-Bey has a history with Palmer...which might work in favor or not for him. Heyward-Bey doesn't catch very well, but he's better then a guy off the street. I favor Ted Ginn Jr, especially for the KR/PR duties he brings to the table.

I do think we can pick up a LT in free agency. It's also an amazing year for TE's in free agency. We could probably pick up two TE's relatively cheaply far superior to what we have on the roster now. (of course Housler has great talent, but not the head, consistency, or blocking). Dennis Pitta, Garrett Graham, Jermichael Finley, Scott Chandler, Dallas Clark and probably 5-10 more I'd kick the tires on that aren't too far behind. There's a glut of TE's, so I'd rather not pick one in the 1st round. Not against it, just would hope someone else would fall to us.

Many speed receivers are one trick pony's. Not Lee. Good bubble screen and drag route runner. Willing and skilled blocker. People should check some of the highlights on youtube, you see him blocking like crazy. Way better then his size should allow him to.

He's also really smart with his blocks, sometimes waiting for the opportune time to blast his guy when running downfield protection for a ball carrier, sometimes taking out two defenders. He also sets up and follows his blockers well with his excellent vision.

He simply does too much at a high level AND he has the speed we and just about every team craves to worry about him busting.

He's also a smart receiver and finds open spots to extend a play and fix broken plays. Some of those things you can't teach. Put that all together and he's exactly what we need and more, it's only about whether we want to pay the price to get him and put more draft resources into the WR position.

But I agree with others that with guys like Ginn and Heyward-Bey out there, we have a chance to pick up a fast and talented guy for cheap through FA and keep our 1st round pick for something else. But Lee sure is tempting.

Overall our needs line up pretty dang well with FA. TE's and S are deep. CB's...not bad, plus we have guys we can re-sign. There are some serviceable and good (not great) LT's out there. As well as Ginn and Heyward-Bey. But if we can't block long enough to allow a burner to get downfield, it will be kind of a waste.

Hopefully we can pick up some of these guys in FA and go into the draft with most or all of these needs addressed in some way so we aren't forced into a guy one way or another and let the draft come to us. If it's Dix or Pryor, great. One of the pass rushers, great. But if they're gone and we've addressed TE and LT in FA, I wouldn't be opposed to Lee. Though #20 also is usually a spot teams start wanting to move up to, so trading back might be smarter. Extra 2nd-4th round picks are gold to building and maintaining a team.

But yeah I think Arians is looking for a speed receiver, and he has some choices. Hell we were looking at Cribbs before his surgery last FA round. All this points to a burner be high up on the list of wants.

edit: Jacoby Jones is there too, but like Rugby said I think he'll be outside our price range.

 

[football karma]

speed guy who could be there in the 2nd: Brandin Cooks, Oregon State

good speed, but explosive in and out of cuts -- wont run the fastest straight line, but might win the fastest deep post

problem: he is kinda thin at 5-10, 185 -- and has a hard time getting off the press


he would be solid value at #52 -- but it seems a high price for a #3 WR

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

We have used 1/3 of all of our picks on OLmen in the last 2 drafts. How long are we going to keep wasting picks on players we don't think should be starting for us? After those 5 picks, we still feel we need to blow up our line and start over save 1 or 2 positions. We are paying guys to just sit on the bench and come in only in emergencies.

We need to start developing these guys to start for us, or spend the money on proven vets in FA, so we can use our picks constructively on other needs for our team.

We have also used 5 picks on our receiving corp in the last 3 yrs. Only 2 are contributing to any degree, Housler and Floyd.

We need to start drafting better. We seem to excel at mediocrity in the draft and that is with the upper half of each round's picks too. Our picks always seem to be described by our coach as great pickups, but after one year we don't hear from them or about them again. That is just too wasteful.

I have said this before, but in my opinion with only about a 25% success rate with our picks, the answer seems to be trading down constantly to pick up more and more picks. Our percentage of success might not go up ever, but with say twice as many picks we will have twice as many players that accomplish what we are hoping for when we pick them.

 

[vinnymac]

IMO, the Cardinals need to quit turning the ball over, resign Matt Shaughnessy, and get a tight end. The Cardinals have proved they can beat the Rams and Seahawks. The real hurdle is beating the 49ers. They havn't beaten the 49ers in 4 or 5 seasons. When true Cardinals quit turning the ball over, they will be the NFC West champions.

 

[cardpa]

I am a bit surprised that when we talk about WRs no one ever mentions Allen Robinson out of Penn State.

He has only caught 174 passes for 2450 yds which averages out to 14 YPC with 17 TDs in his last 2 years at PSU.

STRENGTHS: Fluid and flexible athlete for his larger frame with room to get stronger. Deceiving acceleration with sharp cuts to be a dangerous catch-and-go pass catcher. Physical ballcarrier with balance and body strength to shake off defenders and pick up chunks of yards after contact.

Does a nice job working back to the ball and finding soft spots in zones. Works well in traffic and tight areas to fight for the ball and win jump-ball situations. Uses his hands to fight through the jam and create room to work. Tough and won't shy from contact. Large catching radius with a good vertical to attack the ball. Willing blocker in run support.

COMPARES TO: Anquan Boldin, San Francisco 49ers - Robinson doesn't have elite speed, but like Boldin he is a good-sized athlete with deceiving acceleration and strength at the catch point to be both a possession target and big play-threat.

Considered the 6th best WR coming out and the 35th overall prospect. I would think when you are compared to Boldin, you might garner some attention.

Had two years learning a pro style offense under Bill O'Brian and had a Freshman QB last season throwing to him.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

I'm a big fan of Robinson ........ if he's there at 32 I'd love to see him in the PNW

 

[TruColor]

That and San Fran has had some suspect drafts.

Yeah, being over the top about everything wears thin, just ask Sam Wysche.

Too bad, I didn't mind Harbaugh this year believe it or not.....still fun to play with his gifs.

What do you think about all this Coach Harbaugh ?

You must be registered for see images

I just still glad that my wife didn't give him a second date...and he repeatedly asked for one.

Good decision by her. And for me as well.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

Martavis Bryant of Clemson has speed. He may be there in the third.

Bold prediction: The Cowboys and Niners swap first round picks again

this year. San Fran grabs Marquise Lee. They need some speed at

receiver and Jerruh loves to move around the board.

 

[overseascardfan]

I got two reasons not to have Heyward-Bey on my list:

You must be registered for see images

But, here are some speed guys the Cardinals may have a shot at, if I may piggyback.

...its is a old list from about a month ago, Beckham is not going to be a 3rd rounder.

Free Agency:

- Jacoby Jones: I think the Ravens would be nuts to let this guy go. A decent receiver, but a deadly Kick Returner. His speed is unquestioned. His price will be the wildcard.

- Tedd Ginn, Jr.: I think the Panthers would be nuts to let this guy go. He has a very quiet year, but a year good year. He still has amazing speed, and his hands are finally catching up to his feet. Another good kick returner as well, and again the price will be the wildcard.

- Emanuel Sanders: Not really a fan of this player. He knows Bruce Arians system, but he is not as fast as you would think, and his hands are not as good as you would think. But, he is used as a burner in the league, so I guess he is.

- Brad Smith [Jets]: Good speed. A decent receiver, and has a lot of skill doing various other things on the field. He may be worth bringing in for a look.


Draft:


- Odell Beckham, Jr., LSU (Round 3): A little high for a a 3rd round guy, but Beckham has what the Cardinals are looking for. A wide receiver that can stretch the defense vertically. He can return kicks, but where the Cardinals need him, and what his role at LSU has always been is a player that can give you "chunk plays".

- Josh Huff, Oregon (Round 3): A little high for a a 3rd round guy, and a little undersized. He is more of a slot guy, but he has speed along with quickness to stretch defenses. If it were between Beckham and Huff, the Cardinals would pick Beckham, but Huff sitting alone, or where to drop, he is a canidate for the speed receiver position.

- Tevin Reese, Baylor (Round 3-5): Again, the Cardinals are not spending a 1st or 2nd round pick on a WR, and it would have to be something special if they were to spend a 3rd round pick. Reese, is the type of player the Cardinals are looking for. Reese has the main thing the Caridnals want, big time speed. His size will make him a slot receiver but as we have seen with Brittan Golden that is not a problem in this offense.

- Jalen Saunders, Oklahoma (Round 5-UDFA): I have already seen this kid's name up on ASFN and for good reason. The biggest knock on the kid is his size. He is small. Yet, his speed is top of the line. His role in the NFL would be the same as it was in college. Stretch the field, and go deep.

I would add D'Anthony Thomas to your draft options. He may be small but he has unparalleled speed in the open field. You can have him come out of the backfield where no LB will be able to cover him or the slot.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I'm a big fan of Robinson ........ if he's there at 32 I'd love to see him in the PNW

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[Mitch]

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"Hey, Rocco, Moose, help the judge find his checkbook, will ya?"

 

[MigratingOsprey]

I'm having a cheeseburger tonight for dinner, a hot dog tomorrow for lunch and now I just may have to be inclined to add a milkshake to the list

 

[Finito]

Wrote this long ass reply then " chrome has stopped" comes up everything gone, smh.

Anyways I think fans are really forgetting about Andre Ellington here. I fully expect his rule as a pass catcher to be expanded. Using him out of the backfield, lining him up in the slot, out wide on bubble screens and running reverses. I doubt the cardinals are going to take a WR in the first 4 rounds to be at best the #3 WR on this team.

I would much rather see them take Austin Seferian-Jenkins at 20, this is the best TE draft ever. We have seen up close how a great TE can single handedly shred a defense. He huge something like 6'6-6'7? Has great hands. Plus a good blocker at the line or down field. Imagine that guy along with Fitzgerald, Floyd and Ellington now your offense is looking scary. Of course that's with signing a good LT.

Seattle didn't win the super bowl because of Percy Harvin he hardly played all year. They won because they have a great defense, great running game and they don't turn the ball over. Same with San Fran Ted Ginn plays a very small role on that team

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Same with San Fran Ted Ginn plays a very small role on that team

Well, in fairness he did only play against SF twice this year

 

[Finito]

Well, in fairness he did only play against SF twice this year

Ha. My bad. See just proves my point how little he meant to that team. I needn't to do that

 

[Duckjake]

IMO, the Cardinals need to quit turning the ball over, resign Matt Shaughnessy, and get a tight end. The Cardinals have proved they can beat the Rams and Seahawks. The real hurdle is beating the 49ers. They havn't beaten the 49ers in 4 or 5 seasons. When true Cardinals quit turning the ball over, they will be the NFC West champions.

Cards last beat the 49ers in 2011 when John "Double Dunce" Skelton had his one semi-great game as a pro. But it is the only game against them we've won since 2008. Could have won the 2nd game last season but blew it at the end.