Veteran Free Agent Corners Available?

[kerouac9]

I am not comparing the two scenarios as exactly the same. My point is that watching a player develop in practice is big part of any evaluation and I belive this to be the case with Toler as well, who acquitted himself very well in a playoff game against the best passing team in the league, in addition to gaining the faith of the coaching staff during the course of the season.

Again I want another one time starter brought in to compete and for depth, but I expect Toler to start from Day one from everything I have read since mid way through last season. Like it or not, that made McFadden expendable or a 5 million dollar luxury the team couldnt afford.

If the pass rush is as good as you think it will be, I expect DRC and Toler to be the best starting corners in the division and maybe top 3 in the conference. Asking for much more then that and wanting starters 5 spots deep maybe asking too much.

But lets see how the rest of the offseason plays out before slitting our wrists. The addition of Donnie Henderson may play a big part in all of this as well.

Hope is not a plan. Whis said in his post-draft press conference that he expected "competition" with Toler for that starting cornerback spot. WITH WHOM??? Their 6th round pick? Michael Adams? Give me a break.

Look, this was not a football decision--no one should pretend it is. Our secondary is much worse today than it was on Friday. I think that Toler is going to be a good one. But I don't think that hoping that Greg Toler is going to be a good player next year is a plan to be successful.

It's seeming to me that the team is going to try and compete for a divisional championship next year, but they're not going to go all-out to do it. They drafted a lot of developmental guys and let a lot of experienced players leave.

It'd be a shame for the Cards to go 7-9 in 2010 and have there be no football in 2011.

 

[Cardiac]

Hope is not a plan. Whis said in his post-draft press conference that he expected "competition" with Toler for that starting cornerback spot. WITH WHOM??? Their 6th round pick? Michael Adams? Give me a break.

I came away with the same concern as you from the presser. Whis is talking competition without much to back it up with. He made reference to the two utes that were on the PS last year.

Look, this was not a football decision--no one should pretend it is. Our secondary is much worse today than it was on Friday. I think that Toler is going to be a good one. But I don't think that hoping that Greg Toler is going to be a good player next year is a plan to be successful.

I think we all know that was a business ($) decision. Many teams have made $ decisions this offseason. Look no further then the Cowboys releasing Flozel. Now they do have an OT that they have faith in that most "experts" seem to know about. Maybe Whis does have faith in some youngins on the roster. Yes I'm very concerned as well.

It's seeming to me that the team is going to try and compete for a divisional championship next year, but they're not going to go all-out to do it. They drafted a lot of developmental guys and let a lot of experienced players leave.

Besides this one issue what other examples from the offseason give you this impression?

It'd be a shame for the Cards to go 7-9 in 2010 and have there be no football in 2011.

Uhg, that would be a big bummer. I think many of us are truly worried about how ML will do, especially compared to how KW put this team on his back and carried us to victories.

Now factor in our most recent memories of the playoff games and how the D was blistered then who wouldn't be concerned.

Duckjake posted on another thread that CC's playing time was way down in the Saints game because of his injury. Was it 15 straight games at the end of the season plus coming off the extra long season going to the Super Bowl (I love typing that) factored into the D's collapse in the playoffs.

Bottom line is that it's not in Whis's nature to concede anything. He will not let $ kill this teams chances of winning the Division.

 

[Cheesebeef]

with no salary cap and with the amount of contracts wiped off the books this season compared to last, there's just no reason this team couldn't afford to spend money on depth for the weakest area of the club.

Bottom line to me... with nothing forcing our hand, we just gutted our depth for money. That's hurts. Makes me think it's the same reason we didn't sign Foote... because he wanted 3 million and we were content signing a starter for 1 million.

I just think next season is such a big one in proving to themselves and the rest of the league that they were more than Kurt Warner and in order to do so, Matt's going to need as good a defense as possible to take pressure off him. Having zero corner depth and being tissue soft up the middle with Paris and a breaking down McKinnon is gonna make it awful tough for us to keep on the path Wiz has taken us down.

but, in Wiz I trust. Maybe we take a step back this year to really revamp and rebuild but in the wake of saving a LOT of money on guys who either retired or left, the penny pinching I've seen this off-season leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[kerouac9]

Besides this one issue what other examples from the offseason give you this impression?

Uhg, that would be a big bummer. I think many of us are truly worried about how ML will do, especially compared to how KW put this team on his back and carried us to victories.

Now factor in our most recent memories of the playoff games and how the D was blistered then who wouldn't be concerned.

Duckjake posted on another thread that CC's playing time was way down in the Saints game because of his injury. Was it 15 straight games at the end of the season plus coming off the extra long season going to the Super Bowl (I love typing that) factored into the D's collapse in the playoffs.

Bottom line is that it's not in Whis's nature to concede anything. He will not let $ kill this teams chances of winning the Division.

I think that the Cards bringing in Paris Lenon instead of someone like Larry Foote or Scott Fujita signaled that the team wasn't interested in improving the defense for 2010, especially knowing that the coaching staff is loathe to start rookies early in the season. Also, I think that if you want to win this year, you work harder to bring in someone to compete with Gerald Hayes in the middle of the defense.

I don't think that the defense is going to give up 40 points a game next year; I haven't thought that from the beginning. But I think that the defense is going to have to improve from 20th overall (23rd against the pass) if they're going to make up for the (temporary, hopefully) drop in productivity from the passing offense now that Warner's gone.

I look at the moves that have been made this offseason, and a draft that's high on "projects" who aren't going to contribute at a high level this season (including Schofield, the cornerback, and--let's be honest--Washington), and I don't see that committment to winning a 3rd consecutive NFC West title that I'd want to. Especially thinking that there might not be (probably won't be?) football the year after.

I'll feel better if the Cards use some of this recouped money to extend Dockett, Fitzgerald, Breaston, and Lutui in-season. But if November comes around and these guys are still sitting on their current contracts, I'm going to be real skeptical.

Imagine that Leinart throws for 3800 yards, 20 TDs, 12 INTs, but the team goes 7-9 because the defense regresses. Are the Cards going to feel moved to give Leinart a $60 million contract extension? Are they going to use that as an excuse to re-start at the QB position again?

 

[Cardiac]

I think that the Cards bringing in Paris Lenon instead of someone like Larry Foote or Scott Fujita signaled that the team wasn't interested in improving the defense for 2010, especially knowing that the coaching staff is loathe to start rookies early in the season. Also, I think that if you want to win this year, you work harder to bring in someone to compete with Gerald Hayes in the middle of the defense.

I don't think that the defense is going to give up 40 points a game next year; I haven't thought that from the beginning. But I think that the defense is going to have to improve from 20th overall (23rd against the pass) if they're going to make up for the (temporary, hopefully) drop in productivity from the passing offense now that Warner's gone.

I look at the moves that have been made this offseason, and a draft that's high on "projects" who aren't going to contribute at a high level this season (including Schofield, the cornerback, and--let's be honest--Washington), and I don't see that committment to winning a 3rd consecutive NFC West title that I'd want to. Especially thinking that there might not be (probably won't be?) football the year after.

I'll feel better if the Cards use some of this recouped money to extend Dockett, Fitzgerald, Breaston, and Lutui in-season. But if November comes around and these guys are still sitting on their current contracts, I'm going to be real skeptical.

Imagine that Leinart throws for 3800 yards, 20 TDs, 12 INTs, but the team goes 7-9 because the defense regresses. Are the Cards going to feel moved to give Leinart a $60 million contract extension? Are they going to use that as an excuse to re-start at the QB position again?

Very valid points.

I posted somewhere that I also want to see some of our own extended this year as well. If there is no football in 2011 then do the players still get their paychecks? I assume no but extensions would include bonus money and that could equate to no return on that investment.

Maybe Whis only has a limited budget and couldn't spend the money needed for a vet WILB. I agree that would be very disappointing if true.

As bad as Lenon is I think Washington will get playing time but that isn't necessarily a good thing for this year.

I just don't think it's in Whis's nature to throw in the towel on any season.

Maybe I'm just doing the ostrich thing because I don't want the Cards to revert to old ways. I don't think I am because Michael Bidwill and Whis are not built that way IMHO.

Thanks for the reponse.

 

[kerouac9]

Very valid points.

I posted somewhere that I also want to see some of our own extended this year as well. If there is no football in 2011 then do the players still get their paychecks? I assume no but extensions would include bonus money and that could equate to no return on that investment.

Maybe Whis only has a limited budget and couldn't spend the money needed for a vet WILB. I agree that would be very disappointing if true.

As bad as Lenon is I think Washington will get playing time but that isn't necessarily a good thing for this year.

I just don't think it's in Whis's nature to throw in the towel on any season.

Maybe I'm just doing the ostrich thing because I don't want the Cards to revert to old ways. I don't think I am because Michael Bidwill and Whis are not built that way IMHO.

Thanks for the reponse.

And I should add that I don't think this is because the Cards' FO is being cheap. I think we're beyond that. I just think that they're not going full-out to be competitive. They're hedging their bets a little bit.

I think the thinking is that if Leinart is what we want him to be, he's going to get us to the playoffs with a D that is about as good or maybe a little worse than last year. So let's not make more investments than we need to. If Leinart isn't what we want him to be, then we're going to have a high draft pick, anyway, and we don't want to be saddled with a bunch of other veteran contracts when we could be developing the "new" young core.

I personally think that with an improved D, this team could win a third consecutive NFC West crown, even if Leinart is average. But I think that the team is going to put a little more pressure on him, because they need to know whether he's worth the accelerated salary or contract extension.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I personally think that with an improved D, this team could win a third consecutive NFC West crown, even if Leinart is average. But I think that the team is going to put a little more pressure on him, because they need to know whether he's worth the accelerated salary or contract extension.

I agree. And I am okay with that. This is Leinarts time to prove it, degree of difficulty be damned.

Still I would point to Aaron Rodger's season in 2008 where the team went 6-10 with a porous defense, but knew they had their QBOF in Rodgers. I could see that scenario playing out here as well and Mayy earning that new contract even without immense team success.

 

[overseascardfan]

Does anyone know what the hell the NYJ's are doing? They have Revis, traded for Cromartie and selected Kyle Wilson and then sign Donovan Warren.

Anyway, I know people will say no but, Lito Shepherd anyone? I mean at least he, Ken Lucas, Fred Smoot are better than nothing, at least they are all under 31. Need to start taking some flyers.

 

[asuhoopsnut]

Does anyone know what the hell the NYJ's are doing? They have Revis, traded for Cromartie and selected Kyle Wilson and then sign Donovan Warren.

Anyway, I know people will say no but, Lito Shepherd anyone? I mean at least he, Ken Lucas, Fred Smoot are better than nothing, at least they are all under 31. Need to start taking some flyers.

Lito Sheppard signed with the Vikings a couple of days ago!

 

[kerouac9]

I agree. And I am okay with that. This is Leinarts time to prove it, degree of difficulty be damned.

Still I would point to Aaron Rodger's season in 2008 where the team went 6-10 with a porous defense, but knew they had their QBOF in Rodgers. I could see that scenario playing out here as well and Mayy earning that new contract even without immense team success.

That's the rub. Aaron Rodgers 2008 featured over 4000 yards passing, 28 TDs, and 13 INTs. Part of this was enabled by the nonexistent rushing attack behind Rodgers (Ryan Grant averaged 3.9 YPC).

Do you think that the Cards want Matt Leinart attempting 536 passes in 2010? That's nearly 200 more attempts than Kurt Warner had last season.

I have little doubt that the Cards would extend Matt Leinart's contract if he passed for 4000+ yards and 25+ TDs. But what if he puts together a successful season that doesn't make him the #1 fantasy QB in the NFL?

As I said, 3800 yards, 20 TDs, 12 INTs? That would put him between Kyle Orton and Kurt Warner last year. Would the Cards pay Leinart the $12 million guaranteed next year, or extend his contract to the tune of some $60 million over six years, if he rates somewhere between Jason Campbell and Joe Flacco?

If Leinart goes 9-7 and maybe leads the team to a Wild Card berth (meaning, if the defense is able to carry their weight), then I'd guess so. Leinart would gain the reputation of a gritty winner and field general. But if the team goes 6-10 because the defense allows 24 points a game while the O puts up 23 (which would equate to our 2010 performance)--a backslide of only 3.7 PPG from 2010.

7-9? 6-10? Do the Cards really decide to go with Leinart?

 

[cardsfanmd]

Hope is not a plan.

So I take it you didn't vote for Obama?

 

[187]

Does anyone know what the hell the NYJ's are doing? They have Revis, traded for Cromartie and selected Kyle Wilson and then sign Donovan Warren.

Anyway, I know people will say no but, Lito Shepherd anyone? I mean at least he, Ken Lucas, Fred Smoot are better than nothing, at least they are all under 31. Need to start taking some flyers.

With Rex Ryan's blitz heavy defense you can never have enough cover corners. If Cromartie plays like he did 3 seasons ago that secondary is going to be ridiculous.