Time to add Terrence Cody and run the prototypical 3-4

[joeshmo]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_y...rd_filling_up_html-2010320&prov=nfp&type=lgns

My favorite line from that article - "He’s a football player, not a decathlete."

 

[187]

I agree. If Weatherspoon is gone I have no problems with taking Cody in round 1. The first round could be very interesting if we've got Weatherspoon, Wilson, Cody, and Graham/Kindle sitting there at #26.

Cam Thomas. Best NT in this draft by far. NT is not about size, just look at Alan Branch

Alan Branch doesn't play nose for us, he played end last season. The only time size isn't that important for a 3-4 NT is if they are in a one gap scheme like Jay Ratliff in Dallas and I think we ran a 1-gap scheme with Robinson last season since he's only 305lbs or so. If Whiz wants to run a true 2-gap scheme you need someone who weighs around 330+. I like the 2-gap scheme over the one gap as well, the dlineman cover all the gaps and the LB's clean up the leftovers.

 

[Chopper0080]

My priority list in the first round goes

Rolondo McClain - ILB
Sean Weatherspoon - ILB
Earl Thomas - DB
Kyle Wilson - CB
Terrance Cody - NT
Jermaine Gresham - TE

What pushes Cody down for me is that it is such a passing league anymore, and getting off the field on third down is so important. McClain, Weatherspoon, E Thomas & Kyle Wilson can all contribute on 3rd down, where I am not sure Cody does. However, if those 4 are gone by the time we pick, Cody could be very special ala Shaun Rogers (when he wants to play).

 

[anks106]

I thought I would post this here, as I didn't want to clutter by adding a new thread, and it ties in.

This is a mock situation that I think would have us in an excellent position.

1) Terrence Cody - He is unmovable on the football field and at Bama required double teams. If he can get Dock, Porter, or CC single teams consistently.. someones gonna get free. As for motivation, I think the bigger issue with him was the fact that he could play at his higher weights and play very well in college. I think his ideal NFL weight will be above the 350 he is at now, every step of the way he has been said to be too big to keep playing at his size, and proven people wrong, I believe that will happen again in the NFL.. but what will change is Lott will convert some of that blubber to muscle.

2) Sean Lee - We have all heard the reasons, 4.5 40', incredibly intelligent, supposedly would have been top 15 w/o his injury history. He splits time with Lenon at wilb gradually increasing his workload as he earns it.

3a) Brandon Spikes - Slow, okay.. but he showed good coverage ability in college and sure did bring the hammer. He is the heir apparent to Hayes, who I think will be fine next year, but back problems always find a way to relapse, and if we can get a Brandon Spikes in the third, I'd think it wise to have his replacement in tow.

3b) Chris Cook - CB from VA, he was a standout at the senior bowl and has good size. I say he plays the dime this year, barely seeing the field as Toler did, and then moves into the nickel next year as Mcfadden goes onto greener pastures. He also provides some insurance in case Toler busts, even though Toler looked good to finish last season, many players have had one good game, and followed that with one bad career. Cook has been described as a CB/S from what I've seen in many places, so I'd think he also provides some depth insurance in case Rashad Johnson doesn't figure things out (he could be part of our big nickel package potentially.. I like him because while yes he adds another unknown into a field of them, but given that we are dealing with professional scouts and a team that has shown a penchant from drafting as of late.. I'd hope we could stick 1 of 3).

4) O'brien Schofield - He was a terror playing at Wisconsin, and then tore his ACL at the senior bowl. Given our (aged) depth at OLB, hes perfect for us as we can draft him, stash him on IR for a year, and then add him into the rotation next year.

6) Levi Brown - QB from Troy?, I don't know much about him, but I know Urban had an article about him and we had looked at him. I'm penciling him in based on that, but also because I figure at this point we take a QB, and I don't know enough about those in this draft to make my own call.

7) Whomever Grimm likes as a backup C, or whatever line position/player he thinks he can groom.

 

[Early]

Alan Branch doesn't play nose for us, he played end last season. The only time size isn't that important for a 3-4 NT is if they are in a one gap scheme like Jay Ratliff in Dallas and I think we ran a 1-gap scheme with Robinson last season since he's only 305lbs or so. If Whiz wants to run a true 2-gap scheme you need someone who weighs around 330+. I like the 2-gap scheme over the one gap as well, the dlineman cover all the gaps and the LB's clean up the leftovers.

He was drafted to play nose, and didn't do well, because he had size and not the technique. Same goes to Cody and Dan Williams, both don't know how to play two gap, disengage from the single team consistently and make the play laterally on LOS. Even in single game as the Senior Bowl you saw them on one play dominate a single block, next play completely taken out by a single block. That would never ever happen with a good NT in the NFL and defenitely not with players that yet to have to play a down in NFL. I would say strength is more important than size, that's what Robinson lacks. You need 1) great technique to work laterally on LOS 2) Strength to push the pocket back on passing downs 3) Discipline to be consistent in your game. The coaches need to know what you can do and what not, on every down to trust you. Being great on one play and than be bad on the next, won't get you far.

Sure, Cody can't be moved. But you don't need to move him to run past him if he doesn't know how to disengage and work laterally. Single blocks on him would be more often in the NFL and he doesn't do well enough with those to make plays. They don't move him, sure, but he doesn't disengage well enough and make the plays on these. He can become a good space eater, but that's not synonymous with a great NT always. Another problem is that league is becoming passing oriented.

Dallas really plays a 4-3 defense. It's a 34 where the WOLB is always coming as fourth rusher standing up. You can try to look at PFF and see how many percentage of the time Ware rushes - It's close to 100. They also play the one gap scheme identically in assignments to the 43 - NT in 1 tech and UT in 3 tech. It's a 43 philosophy more than it is 34

The best way to describe such a defense is saying they are a 43 that like to blitz a bit more their SOLB and that like to have their WOLB standing up. That's really it (from assignment standpoint).

We used to be in the same way - We used to send Pace on every down basically, from a standing position. He was basically a RDE. Then, we used to rush Laboy every down basically - He too, was a standing RDE. The whole D-Line played the assignments of the 43 defense, like the Cowboys one does.

The change has occured this past year where we keep playing the same style of D-Line but change which OLB is coming and not. We actually are inpredictable in terms of which OLB is coming, which is reminiscent of the 34 defense. When you do this change you move to the 34 philosophy - This change ultimately forces you to incoroporate more and more two gap along the D-Line as to balance the "suprise moment" of which OLB is coming and keep them clean. That's the reason we have seen more two gap at DE position. We have seen Branch there as an example and CC plays that two gap style as well. Because of DD, our line will never be able to play the traditional two gap line tough.

I better like it myself too, but with DD it's never going to happen, his strength is just blowing up one gapes, without ever reading a play beforehand.

However as Robinson shows, what we need is two gapper at NT, a guy that can work laterally and be smart and read the plays and most of all be consistent. Rather have a lesser talent (Robinson) that is consistent and smart in his game than Haynesworth type of talent (Branch) that is totally inconsistent. Branch has been blowing up blockers this year, even double teams sometimes, highlight material, but next plays he did nothing against a single block and was taken out. He is still way to inconsistent to be played every down.

That inconsistency and lack of discipline is a huge issue i have with Cody and Dan Williams. Consistency and discipline - You find that with Cam Thomas and Tyson Alualu. Both play as polished as Robinson and both are much much better athletes and stronger than Robinson to add something on passing downs. Another guy i like is D'Anthony Smith, he can play the two gap read and react altough he is lesser athlete than Cam and Alualu.

 

[Early]

Look at that picture of Martin Tevaseu of UNLV! How in the world could anybody move that guy out of the middle?

With a forklift maybe?

I liked that highlight tape alot altough i would like to see a whole game with him, maybe in the video only good plays are taken out and shown.

He has the ability to read offenses and work laterally which is crucial and he also posses the strength to play the position. How disciplined he is and consistent, that is hard to see out of a youtube clip, but extremely interesting prospect

 

[Early]

Oh, and by te way, if we do manage to get a good NT, I realize we might have the best D-Line in all of football:

CC, Dockett, Porter (RDE, he will mostly rush the passer just as Berry did) and very nice depth in Iwebema, Branch and Robinson

CC and Dockett are two top 5 inside lineman (34) in terms of setting the pressure on the QB. Porter is top 5 in total sacks over the recent two years from the edge. Those three on the same line means alot of troubles for the protection.

If we manage to draft a dominant NT, we might be able to build something special. Add a great man corner in addition and we might be alot better defense next year despite losing some of "crucial" players such as Dansby and Rolle.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EmSnKXjJPI

He has some skills, pretty athletic but also has had weight isssues

I like the way he dunked the football. He's a big guy to be able to jump like that.

Late round sleeper pick.

Draft countdown doesn't even have him listed. Neither does Yahoo sports.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/Rankings/DT.php

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/draft?year=2010&type=13&round=1

 

[Crazy Canuck]

While NT certainly ranks as a need, it seems to me that our first concern is to get quality picks at both inside linebacker positions in a draft deep with these.

If we come away in the first 4 rounds with 2 linebackers, a NT, and a corner, I'll certainly deem the draft, on paper, successful.

 

[Buckybird]

I like the way he dunked the football. He's a big guy to be able to jump like that.

Late round sleeper pick.

Draft countdown doesn't even have him listed. Neither does Yahoo sports.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/Rankings/DT.php

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/draft?year=2010&type=13&round=1

can't find him on nfl.com either. Looks like an under the radar guy.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

If we come away in the first 4 rounds with 2 linebackers, a NT, and a corner, I'll certainly deem the draft, on paper, successful.

+1

 

[Crazy Canuck]

+1

When we were getting long in the tooth, and with contracts to expire, the team drafted OLB in anticipation: Brown and Davis.

Now, with the departure of Dansby and Hayes on the last year of his deal, it is likely that finding two inside LB's is a priority.

Watson is on a tender, so finding another NT is also a need in case he leaves and, if not, we have two solid at the position.

McFadden is on the last year of his deal, and so, again, this is a position to address.

To me.. this is the order of importance going into this draft. However, it does not preclude that as a "value" pick the team picks up an OT,TE, WO or guard.

 

[TheCardFan]

I think we are in a very good position to draft a quality player (at a position of need) that slides to us at 26.

NT (Cody is the only guy I want at NT)
LB (Weatherspoon, Kindle, Graham)
OT
CB
TE

 

[Hypothesis]

He was drafted to play nose, and didn't do well, because he had size and not the technique. Same goes to Cody and Dan Williams, both don't know how to play two gap, disengage from the single team consistently and make the play laterally on LOS. Even in single game as the Senior Bowl you saw them on one play dominate a single block, next play completely taken out by a single block. That would never ever happen with a good NT in the NFL and defenitely not with players that yet to have to play a down in NFL. I would say strength is more important than size, that's what Robinson lacks. You need 1) great technique to work laterally on LOS 2) Strength to push the pocket back on passing downs 3) Discipline to be consistent in your game. The coaches need to know what you can do and what not, on every down to trust you. Being great on one play and than be bad on the next, won't get you far.

Sure, Cody can't be moved. But you don't need to move him to run past him if he doesn't know how to disengage and work laterally. Single blocks on him would be more often in the NFL and he doesn't do well enough with those to make plays. They don't move him, sure, but he doesn't disengage well enough and make the plays on these. He can become a good space eater, but that's not synonymous with a great NT always. Another problem is that league is becoming passing oriented.

Dallas really plays a 4-3 defense. It's a 34 where the WOLB is always coming as fourth rusher standing up. You can try to look at PFF and see how many percentage of the time Ware rushes - It's close to 100. They also play the one gap scheme identically in assignments to the 43 - NT in 1 tech and UT in 3 tech. It's a 43 philosophy more than it is 34

The best way to describe such a defense is saying they are a 43 that like to blitz a bit more their SOLB and that like to have their WOLB standing up. That's really it (from assignment standpoint).

We used to be in the same way - We used to send Pace on every down basically, from a standing position. He was basically a RDE. Then, we used to rush Laboy every down basically - He too, was a standing RDE. The whole D-Line played the assignments of the 43 defense, like the Cowboys one does.

The change has occured this past year where we keep playing the same style of D-Line but change which OLB is coming and not. We actually are inpredictable in terms of which OLB is coming, which is reminiscent of the 34 defense. When you do this change you move to the 34 philosophy - This change ultimately forces you to incoroporate more and more two gap along the D-Line as to balance the "suprise moment" of which OLB is coming and keep them clean. That's the reason we have seen more two gap at DE position. We have seen Branch there as an example and CC plays that two gap style as well. Because of DD, our line will never be able to play the traditional two gap line tough.

I better like it myself too, but with DD it's never going to happen, his strength is just blowing up one gapes, without ever reading a play beforehand.

However as Robinson shows, what we need is two gapper at NT, a guy that can work laterally and be smart and read the plays and most of all be consistent. Rather have a lesser talent (Robinson) that is consistent and smart in his game than Haynesworth type of talent (Branch) that is totally inconsistent. Branch has been blowing up blockers this year, even double teams sometimes, highlight material, but next plays he did nothing against a single block and was taken out. He is still way to inconsistent to be played every down.

That inconsistency and lack of discipline is a huge issue i have with Cody and Dan Williams. Consistency and discipline - You find that with Cam Thomas and Tyson Alualu. Both play as polished as Robinson and both are much much better athletes and stronger than Robinson to add something on passing downs. Another guy i like is D'Anthony Smith, he can play the two gap read and react altough he is lesser athlete than Cam and Alualu.

Cam Thomas has mauling strength and a great deal of potential, however, he is extremely raw, has very poor footwork at the moment, and does not play with good leverage. He has a tendency to play high on almost every snap. These are all things that are very coachable though, so I won't be too concerned if we end up drafting him. He does have a good motor.

Tyson Alualu is definitely not a 2 gap NT, at all. He is a high motor, penetrating DT in a 4-3, or a Darnell Dockett type 3-4 DE. He does not have the strength to play nose in a 2 gap system.

Regarding Cody and Williams, both of them have spent their entire collegiate careers fending off double teams, and doing so effectively. No opponent was dumb enough to only put one blocker on them consistently. Do they both need to improve conditioning..absolutely. Do they both need to manage their weight, yes. But both of them have a big upside, with Cody having a little more risk attached to him. But even then, both Cody and Williams right now, are the top two NT prospects. Both are much more refined than the rest.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I like Cody but i think i'd rather wait and get a prospect later. Gabe Watson isn't horrible. Won't this be his 2nd year recovered from knee surgery? Maybe he gets back to old from and promise he was showing before the knee. NT is a postion of leverage and having a knee that isn't 100% has to hurt that position, performance-wise, as much as any on the field.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I like Cody but i think i'd rather wait and get a prospect later. Gabe Watson isn't horrible. Won't this be his 2nd year recovered from knee surgery? Maybe he gets back to old from and promise he was showing before the knee. NT is a postion of leverage and having a knee that isn't 100% has to hurt that position, performance-wise, as much as any on the field.

3rd year back. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt much changes with his play.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I like Cody but i think i'd rather wait and get a prospect later. Gabe Watson isn't horrible. Won't this be his 2nd year recovered from knee surgery? Maybe he gets back to old from and promise he was showing before the knee. NT is a postion of leverage and having a knee that isn't 100% has to hurt that position, performance-wise, as much as any on the field.

I had such high hopes for Watson after he gave us a taste of what he could do when healthy. He just never got back to that point after the knee.

 

[JeffGollin]

I'm not buying.

I understand his upside potential, but I'd want to see a little less Jello flopping around out there (and at least some vague hint of muscle tone) before I'd risk anything higher than a 4th round pick on Cody. (We have too many other needs to waste a late 3rd round pick or higher (in a deep draft) on a boom or bust prospect.

(Note - Even after shedding 40 - 50 pounds, he looked sloppy out there.

 

[Early]

Tyson Alualu is definitely not a 2 gap NT, at all. He is a high motor, penetrating DT in a 4-3, or a Darnell Dockett type 3-4 DE. He does not have the strength to play nose in a 2 gap system.

I have to disagree with this as much as it is possible. Alualu is the most polished two gap prospect this year and in quiet some time. He never hits one gap prior to reading a play. He plays with a power step, not a speed step as Darnell Dockett does as example. Alualu plays with power step, reads the play, disengages and than hits the gap. He does that regularly over the OT, in the 34 scheme in college (very rare by the way, he is only one of few prospects that actually have played in two gap scheme so that's a bonus) and he will be able to do that over the center. Can he stand ground over double teams? Probably not. But then again, so can't Robinson and we have been pleased with him, simply because he can play two gap and read and react and work laterally. Alualu has more strength than Robinson, and he is way way better passrusher, it's not even close.

The DD of this draft is Jared Odrick. Never reads a play before hitting the gap, but he is actually good at that. Alualu is the complete opposite.