Artest and Phoenix

[JCSunsfan]

Ya have to wonder how Artest and Shaq would get along. It could get really ugly really fast. Artest calling out Shaq's lazy butt in public, Shaq doing some sort of club rap about his lazy butt having all those championship rings. Not good images indeed.

But on the court it could be huge. Artest brings what other wings cannot. He shoots, he slashes, he plays incredible D, he provides energy.

That team would be nitroglycerin right there. Ready to blow up under the least bit of pressure.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Question, we are over LT and Sarver must pay but can't Sarver just use increased ticket sale prices to pad his losses or atleast make some of his money back. If I was a multi-millionaire/billionaire I wouldn't mind paying 3-4 million as long as my team plays well enough for me to increase ticket prices. Can he do it or does the NBA forbid it?

If you only calculate the regular season (exclude pre-season and post-season), you would only need to raise tickets by $6 ($6 x 19023 x 41) to make up the LT implications of Artest. However, you wouldn't have to put it all on ticket prices if you calculate it into retail pricing of concessions and money spent at the team shop. If you use the average amount of money an attendee spends at a Suns game, the average only has to increase by $6 for ALL costs associated with the game. It really wouldn't be that difficult in my rough estimation....

 

[damo]

Ya have to wonder how Artest and Shaq would get along. It could get really ugly really fast.

Sorry, gotta disagree right there. I know it's purely speculation, but I see Artest and Shaq getting along like a house on fire. Artest and Amare on the other hand. But I think Artest has respect for all that Shaquille has done and would respect the current pecking order with the mvps at the top.

Maybe they'd put out an album together. Tru Warrier ft. Shaq Diesel. with Diaw and Lopez on backing vocals. The NBA would definitely have to start a battle of the bands type competition at all star weekend. Fingers crossed.

 

[scXfreakX]

If we can get Artest and maybe give up Diaw or Barbs, then I think we have to. Like stated before, our championship window is closing very fast. We need to take advantage of every possible opportunity. We don't have the time to stand pat. Now is the time, and I think if we can get him, then that really solidifies our team, and gives us that perimeter and somewhat inside defender that we need desperately.

 

[overseascardfan]

If we can get Artest and maybe give up Diaw or Barbs, then I think we have to. Like stated before, our championship window is closing very fast. We need to take advantage of every possible opportunity. We don't have the time to stand pat. Now is the time, and I think if we can get him, then that really solidifies our team, and gives us that perimeter and somewhat inside defender that we need desperately.

I don't think we would have to give up Barbosa in a deal with SAC unless we are trying to lower payroll but our TE and Diaw should net us Artest and Thomas as SAC realizes Artest does not want to be there now and his play will probably reflect that, so get rid of a cancer and contract and take a contract back and a nice role player in Diaw.

 

[overseascardfan]

If you only calculate the regular season (exclude pre-season and post-season), you would only need to raise tickets by $6 ($6 x 19023 x 41) to make up the LT implications of Artest. However, you wouldn't have to put it all on ticket prices if you calculate it into retail pricing of concessions and money spent at the team shop. If you use the average amount of money an attendee spends at a Suns game, the average only has to increase by $6 for ALL costs associated with the game. It really wouldn't be that difficult in my rough estimation....

Is he not smart enough to realize this, get the pieces we'll end up paying for them anyway.

 

[dodie53]

artest, thomas for diaw, LB

do it!

 

[shazaam6]

Artest could be a problem for any team so let's not give Barbosa away and take on Thomas' bad contract. Diaw could earn his money this year or he could not, so if we trade just Diaw maybe that is ok. To include Barbosa who has a decent contract and a good player, no deal. But if you want to take a gamble with Diaw for the headache Artest straight up ok maybe it is worth a try.

 

[Sunsman43]

Artest could be a problem for any team so let's not give Barbosa away and take on Thomas' bad contract. Diaw could earn his money this year or he could not, so if we trade just Diaw maybe that is ok. To include Barbosa who has a decent contract and a good player, no deal. But if you want to take a gamble with Diaw for the headache Artest straight up ok maybe it is worth a try.

Umm....and how in the world do you plan to trade Diaw straight up for Artest? Salaries wouldn't exactly match. Only way this is happening is if all four are involved:

Artest+Kenny for Barbs+Diaw

Take it or leave it.

I'd take it. A Raja and Ron duo at the wings is simply killer. Defensive specialists who will instill fear on all opposing shooters.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Umm....and how in the world do you plan to trade Diaw straight up for Artest? Salaries wouldn't exactly match.

Actually the salaries do match. I'm not saying this is fair or desirable for either team, just that the trade works for the two of them straight up.

 

[AceP]

If the Kings takes Diaw for Artest, it is definitely a dream come true.

But the problem is not salary. As I know there r only 2 teams who expressed serious interest on Diaw, New York and Toronto. Never heard about the Kings, can he fit in their system? ...

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Artest has negative trade value. He is a well documented trouble maker who never ever wins and is now saying to the media "I made a mistake not opting out. Get me off this team."

Should the Kings trade him, they will have to take back less than his worth on the court. No team in their right mind is going to take Artest AND a bad contract on top of that.

 

[devilalum]

Artest has negative trade value. He is a well documented trouble maker who never ever wins and is now saying to the media "I made a mistake not opting out. Get me off this team."

Should the Kings trade him, they will have to take back less than his worth on the court. No team in their right mind is going to take Artest AND a bad contract on top of that.

Everybody ion the universe thought that Shaq had negative trade value but the Heat got an All Star forward for him.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Everybody ion the universe thought that Shaq had negative trade value but the Heat got an All Star forward for him.

Well that particular GM has gotten bent over in every trade he has been involved in so no suprise there.

 

[slinslin]

1. Shawn Marion was no allstar.
2. Shawn Marion didnt have less trade value than Shaq nor would he have helped us any more.
3. Ron Artest doesnt have negative trade value and besides his character is a better player at his best than Shawn Marion.

 

[pokerface]

Artest has negative trade value. He is a well documented trouble maker who never ever wins and is now saying to the media "I made a mistake not opting out. Get me off this team."

Should the Kings trade him, they will have to take back less than his worth on the court. No team in their right mind is going to take Artest AND a bad contract on top of that.

Negative trade value....pffft....yeah right. We'll see on that one.

 

[pokerface]

A lot of players could be perceived as having "negative" trade value due to...

attitude

health

contract

age


In some ways attitude is the least of the demons because its more correctable than the others.

 

[okhoops]

Artest has negative trade value. He is a well documented trouble maker who never ever wins and is now saying to the media "I made a mistake not opting out. Get me off this team."

Should the Kings trade him, they will have to take back less than his worth on the court. No team in their right mind is going to take Artest AND a bad contract on top of that.

I'm not sure Kerr has any genuine interest in Artest, but the Lakers sure seem to have a strong interest. Not many championships are won with choirboys. I have confidence that in the right mix, Artest would buy in to have a shot at a title run. Others have especially as their better years wound down. We need some battlers. Come on Kerr, get Artest and let's have one last kick at the can before the inevitable rebuilding starts.

 

[HooverDam]

1. Shawn Marion was no allstar.

Huh? Are you meaning just this past season, or ever? Becuase a guy who averages 18/10 for his career on 48% shooting, while guarding any position 1-4 and doing an admirable job certainly fits the All Star bill to me.

 

[BC867]

Huh? Are you meaning just this past season, or ever? Becuase a guy who averages 18/10 for his career on 48% shooting, while guarding any position 1-4 and doing an admirable job certainly fits the All Star bill to me.

You're right. He had All Star stats and was voted to the team. So if someone is a Shaw Marion fan, that's great.

But he did not help make the players around him better. He developed into a malcontent on the team and with the Press. He was not a strong shooter or rebounder -- he was an opportunity shooter and rebounder.

To a Phoenix Suns fans, that's not so great.

Plus his very presence kept a Power Forward at Center and a Small Forward at Power Forward. That was horrible.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

You're right. He had All Star stats and was voted to the team. So if someone is a Shaw Marion fan, that's great.

But he did not help make the players around him better. He developed into a malcontent on the team and with the Press. He was not a strong shooter or rebounder -- he was an opportunity shooter and rebounder.

To a Phoenix Suns fans, that's not so great.

Plus his very presence kept a Power Forward at Center and a Small Forward at Power Forward. That was horrible.

Wow, that's a pretty shortsighted conclusion. Care to rethink that one?

 

[mojorizen7]

What exactly is the definition of "negative" trade value?
A guy that nobody wants i would think.
Ron Artest is not that guy.
SUNS are likely not pursuing Artest(even if they had the mean$ to they prob wouldn't either) which is a shame. I would actually be glad just to know if KERR was even considering trying to get Artest in a SUNS uni.... because that would mean that
the approach to reaching the ultimate prize had changed in terms of philosophy on how to go about it.

 

[BC867]

Wow, that's a pretty shortsighted conclusion. Care to rethink that one?

I don't understand what you mean by shortsighted, in this case.

As long as Shawn Marion remained on the Suns, Amare Stoudemire could not play his natural position of Power Forward (because Marion was).

So Amare at Center was outmuscled, outrebounded and constantly benched with foul trouble. It went on for awhile.

Even if Shawn Marion did not become a clubhouse cancer, a whiner with the Press, an opportunity rebounder (rather than a strong rebounder) and good-without-the-ball scorer . . . it was in the team's best interest to trade the Matrix for a Center.

What's shortsighted about wanting him traded to solve that problem?

 

[Irish]

I don't understand what you mean by shortsighted, in this case.

As long as Shawn Marion remained on the Suns, Amare Stoudemire could not play his natural position of Power Forward (because Marion was).

So Amare at Center was outmuscled, outrebounded and constantly benched with foul trouble. It went on for awhile.

Even if Shawn Marion did not become a clubhouse cancer, a whiner with the Press, an opportunity rebounder (rather than a strong rebounder) and good-without-the-ball scorer . . . it was in the team's best interest to trade the Matrix for a Center.

What's shortsighted about wanting him traded to solve that problem?

I'm not sure I would have put it the way you did, but I tend to agree with your core point. ON A D'ANTONI TEAM, Marion presented a problem. Marion is a guy with some great skills and also some major gaps. The problems he presented were:

1. Not able to create his own shot.

2. Not a good outside shooter.

3. Too small to defend the low post.

4. Wanted to shoot more even though he's not a good shooter.

IMHO, the guy Marion most resembles is Prince. Marion played mostly inside, so his rebounding has been better, but otherwise their stats are comparable:

Tayshaun Prince
Detroit Pistons
Position: F
Height: 6-9 Weight: 215
College: Kentucky
Player file | Team stats

2007-08 Statistics
PPG 13.2
RPG 4.9
APG 3.3
SPG 0.5
BPG 0.4
FG% 0.448
FT% 0.768
3P% 0.363
MPG 32.9



Shawn Marion
Miami Heat
Position: F
Height: 6-7 Weight: 230
College: UNLV
Player file | Team stats

2007-08 Statistics
PPG 15.4
RPG 10.2
APG 2.2
SPG 2.0
BPG 1.4
FG% 0.508
FT% 0.707
3P% 0.333
MPG 36.7

With the Heat, Marion's shooting went down (fewer runouts and ally-oopplays) and his rebounding went up. In any case, Marion's offense would have fit with the Pistons, but not his personality. In any case, Prince makes $9.5 million this season and Marion makes $17.1.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I don't understand what you mean by shortsighted, in this case.

As long as Shawn Marion remained on the Suns, Amare Stoudemire could not play his natural position of Power Forward (because Marion was).

So Amare at Center was outmuscled, outrebounded and constantly benched with foul trouble. It went on for awhile.

Even if Shawn Marion did not become a clubhouse cancer, a whiner with the Press, an opportunity rebounder (rather than a strong rebounder) and good-without-the-ball scorer . . . it was in the team's best interest to trade the Matrix for a Center.

What's shortsighted about wanting him traded to solve that problem?

None of that is Marion's fault besides the cancer accusations. He can play SF just as easily as undersized PF.

It was in the teams best interest to trade him for a center, yes, but saying his presence was the root of the problem is simply ludicrous. Dantoni played him in the position, he had zero say in it. Saying it's marions fault that Amare had to play center makes me think you're not looking at the bigger problem of Dantoni's decisions. Hence, the shortsightedness.