Zito agrees to deal with Giants

The Commish

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Sources: Zito's Giants deal worth about $18M per year

ESPN.com news services

Barry Zito is staying in the Bay Area with the San Francisco Giants.

Sources told ESPN's Peter Gammons that Zito will receive a seven-year contract from the Giants, with the deal averaging approximately $18 million per season. Zito will be formally introduced by the Giants this afternoon.

Gammons reports that Zito picked the Giants over the Rangers, Mets, Yankees and Mariners. In additon, sources told Gammons that the Yankees never made a formal offer.

Zito is 102-63 in 222 career starts, including a 16-10 mark with a 3.83 ERA in 34 starts this year before becoming a free agent.





http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2710389
 

Espo

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I think the Dbacks now have to make a move in the west. Every other team has made noise this offseason and added key pieces.
 

abomb

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That is a lot of cheese, but it must be nice to be a fan of a team that actually makes offseason moves.
 

coyoteshockeyfan

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$18M for seven years? Anybody still wish we went after this guy?
 

Ryanwb

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Can't wait to see him at Chase...fly ball pitcher's nightmare
 

shoewizard

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I think the Dbacks now have to make a move in the west. Every other team has made noise this offseason and added key pieces.

I thought the other teams were responding to the D Backs bringing in Doug Davis and Dana Eveland :)

Seriously, losing Schmidt and getting Zito is not a move UP for the Giants...and they are now saddled with that huge contract. I am REALLY happy about this, believe it or not. Sure, getting Zito for 2007 makes them better than if they didn't have him, but not to the point where they become a good team. And seeing them spend these kinds of resources on a pitcher that is only somewhat above average nowadays is a GOOD thing for the D backs.
 

82CardsGrad

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Zito will give his standard 200 inning performance, but will struggle to reach even 15 wins... That's a ton of $$ for someone who struggles to reach 15 W's...
I had heard that the Yankees recently showed interest in speaking with Zito. Gotta believe that pushed the stakes higher and to the ridiculous level!
 

NEZCardsfan

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He'll probably be ok for the first month or so....but I expect his ERA to be about mid 4's. Like 82 said he'll be a horse.....but he won't be dominant.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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I think the Dbacks now have to make a move in the west. Every other team has made noise this offseason and added key pieces.
Yeah, since doing just that has helped out the Baltimore Orioles so much. If the DBacks make moves that help the team both now and the future they will be fine and the fans will come. No need to worry about keeping pace with the Giants and Dodgers, neither of which look significantly better than last year on paper even with the hundreds of millions they dropped this offseason.
 

coyoteshockeyfan

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As a Dback fan I really like the fact that the Giants somehow managing to get even older this offseason (I'm referring more to their other moves, not to the Ztio signing). With their aging and fading roster, and very little prospect talent to replenish it outside of Cain, they are going to be in real trouble in just a few seasons.
 

green machine

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I think the Dbacks now have to make a move in the west. Every other team has made noise this offseason and added key pieces.

Not really though. If the plan is to build from within then stick with it, no need to make any rash decisions and go just spending too much money on players just because everyone else did it.

I'd rather the team stay the course and see what happens.
 

devilfan02

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$18M for seven years? Anybody still wish we went after this guy?

I've never wanted Zito in the slightest. I might be wrong but I can only recall a handful of people who want him (I agree though, too many people).

Zito is vastly overrated, if you disagree look up his numbers. We already have our version of Barry Zito (nearly identical numbers, if not better) except he's $15 million dollars cheaper and is our #3......... His name is Doug Davis (Great value at $3 per year). Zito would be an upgrade on our staff but at $18 per year, he would cripple us financially for years to come. The only thing he's good for is durability. He's a flyball pitcher who would have limited success in Chase Field. In fact, I would rather have Schmidt at $15 per year even if Zito could be had at $10 per year (going off how overrated Zito is). I really don't understand what Saben and the Giants are doing, it makes no sense. Here's to hoping we rock Zito every time out!
 
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devilfan02

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Here's a great article by Rob Neyer from Espn.com. It's very one-sided (Zito is overrated) but contains many valuable facts and statistics. Also hammers home the fact the Scott Boras is 100% dillusional. Enjoy!

When evaluating Zito, believe the real numbers


I don't pay all that much attention to quotes in the newspapers. I used to. I used to spend a goodly amount of my precious electronic space running down ridiculous things I read in the papers and magazines. But I got tired of doing that. So did you, probably.

Then the other day, I saw this one in the New York Times, Scott Boras talking about his most eligible bachelor/client -- "With Barry Zito, I don't need any perception. Sometimes, I need help. Not on this one. It's rather obvious. He's a special player" -- and I took it as a recall to arms.
Boras doesn't need any help on this one, huh? So why did he say this, just a couple of weeks ago?

"He is, next to Greg Maddux, the most durable pitcher to hit the marketplace in more than 30 years He's never missed a start his entire career. He is a winner and he is durable. In the last 25 or 30 years, only two pitchers have pitched 200 innings every year and had over 100 victories for six years."

That was in the San Francisco Chronicle on Dec. 5, reported by Henry Schulman. Sure, there's nothing untoward about stating the facts if they help your client. And Boras' assertions look reasonable enough. Is Zito the "most durable pitcher to hit the marketplace in more than 30 years?" Depends on how you define "most durable" and "marketplace." Is Zito a winner? Well, he's won more games than he's lost. Is he durable? However you define durable, Zito certainly qualifies, because it's true that he's never missed a start in his career.

What about that other claim, though? Let's be fair, and focus on just the last 25 years. How many pitchers have, over a six-season span, pitched
at least 200 innings in each season and won more than 100 games?

Two, as Boras said? Nope.
Three? Nope.
Four? Nope.

Without looking all that hard, I found five: Randy Johnson did it once (that is, over one span of six seasons); Roger Clemens, Tom Glavine, and Jack Morris each did it twice, and Maddux did it nine times (consecutively, beginning in 1988).

Hey, anybody can make a mistake, right? Maybe when Boras said "two" he really meant to say "four or five," or maybe he was misquoted. But here's the thing: Barry Zito has not done this. In his (only) six full seasons, Zito has pitched at least 200 innings in each, but he has not won more than 100 games; he's won 95 (he's got 102 career wins because he won seven in his short rookie season).



Boras doesn't need any help? I read this in USA Today, a bit more than a month ago:
Boras says Zito, 28, is destined to be the finest left-handed starter since Steve Carlton by the time he's 35. There's a fancy 74-page glossy book to prove it.​
"You're talking about a very special guy who has never missed a start," Boras says. "His durability has been rewarded with 102 wins. He has (a Cy Young trophy) in his back pocket. He has three All-Stars. He beat ( Minnesota's Johan) Santana, the best pitcher in baseball, in the postseason. "Barry could be one of the best left-handed pitchers of all time. Players like this are Maddux-esque."​
Zito does have that Cy Young trophy. Jack McDowell has one, too. He did beat Johan Santana in the postseason. Also, Johnny Kucks once beat Don Newcombe in the postseason. Dave McNally beat Don Drysdale. John Candelaria beat Jim Palmer. Et cetera to infinity, plus one.

Is Zito likely to become the finest left-handed starter since Carlton? His competition includes Johnson (five Cy Young trophies, 280 wins and counting) and Tom Glavine (two Cy Young trophies, 290 wins and counting). It's one thing to suggest that Zito's going to wind up in the Hall of Fame -- unlikely, but certainly conceivable -- and quite another to say he's going to be even better than the currently active left-handers who we know are going to be Hall of Famers (not to mention Jamie Moyer, Kenny Rogers, Santana, Andy Pettitte and Mark Buehrle).

And of course, comparing Zito to Maddux is even sillier. As good as Johnson and Glavine have been, Maddux has been better. Zito has one thing in common with Maddux, or perhaps two: He doesn't throw a million miles an hour, but he'll give you a million innings.

Comparing [Barry] Zito to [Greg] Maddux is even sillier. As good as [Randy] Johnson and [Tom] Glavine have been, Maddux has been better. Zito has one thing in common with Maddux, or perhaps two: He doesn't throw a million miles an hour, but he'll give you a million innings.

Even that, though … Zito's been wonderfully durable, but not uniquely. With 1,338 innings over the last six seasons, Zito's only third in the majors over that span, behind Livan Hernandez and Buehrle (and four other pitchers have racked up at least 1,300 innings).

Boras says that Zito is a "special player," but what exactly makes him special? How good is Zito, really? It's obvious that he's not Maddux-esque, or Carlton-esque, or Glavine-esque. But is Zito even Oswalt-esque, or Halladay-esque? Buehrle-esque?

Before trying to put him in some sort of context, let's split Zito's six full seasons in half: 2001-2003 (Part 1), and 2004-2006 (Part 2, so far) …
Starts Innings BB SO HR ERA RSAAPart 1 105 675 246 533 61 3.17 92Part 2 103 662 269 485 81 4.05 34

Through the 2003 season, Zito was a special pitcher (by the way, RSAA stands for Runs Saved Above Average, courtesy of the Complete Baseball Encyclopedia). Since 2003, though? Not so much. The walks and homers and ERA are up ( i.e. bad), the strikeouts and Runs Saved Above Average are down (ditto).

How does Zito compare to some of the other top young starters in the game? Considering only 2004 through 2006, here are some of our special pitchers:
Starts Innings ERA RSAASantana 101 693 2.75 137Oswalt 102 699 3.14 93B. Webb 101 672 3.40 87C'penter 93 645 3.10 85Halladay 72 495 3.24 80Zito 103 662 4.05 34

That is not an exhaustive list, by any means. Over the last three seasons, Zito ranks just 27th among starters in Runs Saved Above Average. With 34, he's behind not only those luminaries listed above, but also (among others) fellow left-handers Buehrle (58 RSAA), Pettitte (56), Dontrelle Willis (48), Rogers (46), Glavine (40) and C.C. Sabathia (36). We might be charitable, and bump Zito up a few spots because he's been pitching in the tougher league. Still pretty hard to argue that he's one of the 20 best starters in the majors (especially if we give Oakland's defense as much credit for his recent success as it probably deserves).

Why is Boras so desperately trying to create this perception of Zito as a truly special player? Because that's what agents do. I'll bet Boras knows exactly how good Zito is. Or if he doesn't, he's got a bunch of bright people in his office who do. I'll bet that 74-page glossy book doesn't contain any out-and-out lies. Lying in print isn't good business. But I'll bet it doesn't mention that over the last three seasons Zito's been a good pitcher but not a great one. I'll bet it doesn't mention that he's not one of the dozen best pitchers in the majors, and probably not even better than Buehrle or Sabathia.

In today's inflated market, where Gil Meche is paid $11 million per season to be humdrum, Zito is worth something like $15 million per season, if only because he's so reliable. But Zito's agent doesn't want $15 million. He wants $17 million or more, and he's going to get that only if he can convince some team that Zito's new six-year contract is going to cover the middle years of a Hall of Fame career.
Considering the financial profligacy that we've seen over the last 25 (or 30) years, does anybody want to bet that he can't?
 

Espo

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Not really though. If the plan is to build from within then stick with it, no need to make any rash decisions and go just spending too much money on players just because everyone else did it.

I'd rather the team stay the course and see what happens.

I don't mean a rash decision but the pitching even if building from within is the plan is a cause for concern. There is no real "stud" prospect pitching wise. It is a bunch of guys who will probably be no more than 4th or 5th starters or bullpen guys. The offense will probably be fine but another starter is necessary. And my point is other teams in the west got better and the only real change for the Dbacks is to add Doug Davis well subtracting Claudio Vargas.
 

green machine

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I don't mean a rash decision but the pitching even if building from within is the plan is a cause for concern. There is no real "stud" prospect pitching wise. It is a bunch of guys who will probably be no more than 4th or 5th starters or bullpen guys. The offense will probably be fine but another starter is necessary. And my point is other teams in the west got better and the only real change for the Dbacks is to add Doug Davis well subtracting Claudio Vargas.

I'm of the opinion that once the team is sure they are that one or two big name guys away, then you go after them. For now let's see how the young guys do because if they improve then the team will automatically be better.
 

Espo

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I'm of the opinion that this young talent is one or two pitchers away from competing for the west. They have the talent in the outfield and in the infield to get it done this year if the pitching can hold up their end of the deal. The other teams in the division have made their moves and I think the dbacks are one decent move away from being able to win the west.
 

hafey

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There's a difference between competing for the west and a wrold series. I'd prefer to wait and build for the later. Not blow our limited wad this year.
 

Espo

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There's a difference between competing for the west and a wrold series. I'd prefer to wait and build for the later. Not blow our limited wad this year.
You don't have to "blow the wad" but adding another solid starter or a closer is a must. You stick with the fiscal responsibility and stay in budget but you have to get things done still.
 

Diamondback Jay

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Yeah, since doing just that has helped out the Baltimore Orioles so much. If the DBacks make moves that help the team both now and the future they will be fine and the fans will come. No need to worry about keeping pace with the Giants and Dodgers, neither of which look significantly better than last year on paper even with the hundreds of millions they dropped this offseason.

I could be wrong here, but I think he was being fecicious.
 

overseascardfan

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You don't have to "blow the wad" but adding another solid starter or a closer is a must. You stick with the fiscal responsibility and stay in budget but you have to get things done still.

The problem now is that there is no SP or CP available. You here names like Haren or Harden being thrown around but the 's won't give them up unless their getting pitching that will help them next year which we don't. Rumors about the Angels with Santana and Saunders ain't gonna happen, Saunders is untouchable and Santana is being used to get a big bat.

BTW, I like SF's rotation, Lowry, Cain, Morris and now Zito is pretty formidable especially in Pac Bell Park, and pretty soon they'll have Tim Linecum in that rotation. Plus all SP's are locked up until atleast 2009.
 

Stallion

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Here's a great article by Rob Neyer from Espn.com. It's very one-sided (Zito is overrated) but contains many valuable facts and statistics. Also hammers home the fact the Scott Boras is 100% dillusional. Enjoy!


I feel a lot better after browsing that. Thanks! :D
 

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