Worst Award Ever

Harry

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Cards’ website says they give their perceived best scout the Rod Graves Award. That’s like giving out an award called the Jeffrey Dahmer Award for fine dining. Graves personnel knowledge kept the Cards buried for years. Sure Dollar Bill’s restrictions were an issue, but Graves was clueless.
 

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Graves drafted better than Keim.

IMO, it was bad free agent moves, coaching decisions, and an inability to find a long-term answer at QB after Warner that doomed him.
He just moved a little slow in his actions as GM, but that might have been because ole man Bidwill was holding him back. He was also one of the first men of color which held such a high position in a NFL front office, which carries a certain principle that one who supports the Cardinals should be proud of
 

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He just moved a little slow in his actions as GM, but that might have been because ole man Bidwill was holding him back. He was also one of the first men of color which held such a high position in a NFL front office, which carries a certain principle that one who supports the Cardinals should be proud of

We can't minimize the very old school way Bidwill preferred in structuring contracts, and how slowly but surely Graves brought him into the present era.
 

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Haha money fantasy lg im in with friends and my bro on fleaflicker the commish gives a toilet bowl trophy to worst team has to keep all yr lol luckily ive won lg once never had worst yet

Winner gets a sbowl like trophy 600 cash in my money lg :)

Hiliarous post :)
 

football karma

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Graves is a very decent man.

I had the opportunity to meet him and he happily answered all my draft questions, etc (this was year 1 of Denny).

This was also an era where the org's reputation was such that to get a HC of any sort of name or demand, a good chunk of personnel power had to be ceded to that HC ( this was true for Denny and Whis).

its also true that past round 2, it was mostly Graves' team doing the picking.

he was part of the single best draft in Cardinal history (and probably up there in terms of the whole league) in 2004:

Round 1: Fitz
Round 2: Karlos Dansby
Round 3: Darnell Dockett
Round 5: Antonio Smith
 
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Harry

Harry

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K9 gave you an answer. Why not give us chapter and verse as to why he's wrong as opposed to this non-sequitur?
Well I’ll try to be brief. Graves made the worst trade in Az Cards history during the draft. With Terrell Suggs there to be picked, he traded the pick for Calvin Pace & Bryant Johnson. That‘s a many time Pro Bowler for 2 mediocre performers. Despite the Cards sadly having terrific draft position almost every year, he drafted many weak choices & seemed to have a penchant for future medical cases. He oversaw 12 drafts. The other bad first rounders included Dan Williams, Matt Leinart, Wendell Bryant, Leonard Davis & probably Thomas Jones. Second round picks included Kyle Vanden, Michael Stone, LeVar Fisher, Cody Brown, Alan Branch & Ryan Williams. A few of these guys did better elsewhere, but Graves was picking the coaches too. In fairness he did have some big hits, but considering where the Cards were typically drafting, missing about half the time is not a result that typically gets an award named after you. BTW you need to look up the definition of non-sequitur. It’s virtually impossible to ask for further information and be guilty of a non-sequitur remark.
 
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Harry

Harry

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Graves is a very decent man.

I had the opportunity to meet him and he happily answered all my draft questions, etc (this was year 1 of Denny).

This was also an era where the org's reputation was such that to get a HC of any sort of name or demand, a good chunk of personnel power had to be ceded to that HC ( this was true for Denny and Whis).

its also true that past round 2, it was mostly Graves' team doing the picking.

he was part of the single best draft in Cardinal history (and probably up there in terms of the whole league) in 2004:

Round 1: Fitz
Round 2: Karlos Dansby
Round 3: Darnell Dockett
Round 5: Antonio Smith
I’m not disputing Graves was a decent guy. I’d be okay with naming an award after him like one for representing the best in executive conduct. My problem is naming a scouting award after him. I think it was progressive and long overdue naming him GM, but let’s not lose sight that he was discharged from that position. He deserved better than the shot Dollar Bill gave him, but you have to play the cards you’re dealt, even if you deal them to yourself.
 

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Well I’ll try to be brief. Graves made the worst trade in Az Cards history during the draft. With Terrell Suggs there to be picked, he traded the pick for Calvin Pace & Bryant Johnson. That‘s a many time Pro Bowler for 2 mediocre performers. Despite the Cards sadly having terrific draft position almost every year, he drafted many weak choices & seemed to have a penchant for future medical cases. He oversaw 12 drafts. The other bad first rounders included Dan Williams, Matt Leinart, Wendell Bryant, Leonard Davis & probably Thomas Jones. Second round picks included Kyle Vanden, Michael Stone, LeVar Fisher, Cody Brown, Alan Branch & Ryan Williams. A few of these guys did better elsewhere, but Graves was picking the coaches too. In fairness he did have some big hits, but considering where the Cards were typically drafting, missing about half the time is not a result that typically gets an award named after you. BTW you need to look up the definition of non-sequitur. It’s virtually impossible to ask for further information and be guilty of a non-sequitur remark.

When the query is designed to avoid, obfuscate or change a subject it can be properly termed 'non-sequitur'.

In light of his career, Terrell Suggs should have been the choice but at the time some observers thought him slow and problematic at the next level given that we were running a 4-3. Calvin Pace had a good career after he left and was used properly in a 3-4. Dan Williams was rounding out well until he broke his arm, and did have a few additional productive years as a stump in the middle. Leonard Davis did fine as a guard in Dallas (3 Pro Bowls, One All Pro) over a 12-year career. Blame Denny Green for his move to left tackle. Thomas Jones had five 1000+ seasons after leaving AZ and a 12-year career. Kyle Vanden Bosch was selected to three Pro Bowls over his 13-year career. Alan Branch was a solid DE/DT, particularly in New England, over an 11-year career.
 
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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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When the query is designed to avoid, obfuscate or change a subject it can be properly termed 'non-sequitur'.

In light of his career, Terrell Suggs should have been the choice but at the time many observers thought him slow and not likely to amount to much. Calvin Pace had a good career after he left and was used properly in a 3-4.
This is just inaccurate. He timed more slowly than expected but he was otherwise considered to be passrushing demon and it was a shock the cardinals passed on him.
 

football karma

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This is just inaccurate. He timed more slowly than expected but he was otherwise considered to be passrushing demon and it was a shock the cardinals passed on him.
the rumor was that Mike B -- in his first real spot of authority - was concerned about a long and acrimonious first round hold out by the local hero -- Suggs was using Gary Wichard, who was known for stuff like that.
 

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The Head Coach called the shots for the Draft during the Rod Graves era as General Manager. Rod Graves never got into the college scouting scene.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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the rumor was that Mike B -- in his first real spot of authority - was concerned about a long and acrimonious first round hold out by the local hero -- Suggs was using Gary Wichard, who was known for stuff like that.
Ironically, if true, that’s a very billy b reason not to draft Suggs.
 

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Cards’ website says they give their perceived best scout the Rod Graves Award. That’s like giving out an award called the Jeffrey Dahmer Award for fine dining. Graves personnel knowledge kept the Cards buried for years. Sure Dollar Bill’s restrictions were an issue, but Graves was clueless.
I saw that and thought the exact same thing.
 
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Harry

Harry

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When the query is designed to avoid, obfuscate or change a subject it can be properly termed 'non-sequitur'.

In light of his career, Terrell Suggs should have been the choice but at the time many observers thought him slow and not likely to amount to much. Calvin Pace had a good career after he left and was used properly in a 3-4. Dan Williams was rounding out well until he broke his arm, and did have a few additional productive years as a stump in the middle. Leonard Davis did fine as a guard in Dallas (3 Pro Bowls, One All Pro) over a 12-year career. Blame Denny Green for his move to left tackle. Thomas Jones had five 1000+ seasons after leaving AZ and a 12-year career. Kyle Vanden Bosch was selected to three Pro Bowls over his 13-year career. Alan Branch was a solid DE/DT, particularly in New England, over an 11-year career.
I’d like a source that supports your definition of non-sequitur. Of course it’s Latin and simply translates as “It does not follow.” How a clarifying request via question could fit what you allege might lead one to say you seem to be trying to obfuscate the issue. Your Suggs point sort of helps my position. Suggs did have a bad combine. So Graves was left with making an independent talent evaluation; a scouting call, choose Suggs play or his workout. Consider what Rex Ryan said, “Ozzie (Newsome) occasionally would have me look at some of the top players before the draft, and he had me look at Suggs,” said Ryan, now an NFL analyst with ESPN. “I looked at him and said, ‘You have to be kidding me. There’s no way in hell he’s going to be there when we pick.’ He said, ‘You know, Rex, he ran a bad 40.’ I said, ‘Ozzie, all people have to do is watch the tape.” That’s what a good ”scout” does. As you apparently missed the fact I said some of the people I listed did perform better elsewhere. Davis played left tackle for the final 20 games of his Texas career. Davis did not distinguish himself at guard as a Card. So when Shelton’s play declined and Clement left, Davis was the logical choice to try at tackle. The fact the Cards chose not to franchise Davis fairly well says it all. So much of drafting is about fit. Jones running style wasn’t a fit. I can‘t prove Branch dogged it, but he played in 47 games and only made 68 tackles. Vanden Bosch was ordinary at best with the Cards. Again he fit other defensive schemes better. Also he was on the list as one of the injured picks. He missed the entire 2003 season, for example.
 

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