Why Frye?

Harry

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When it was announced offensive line coach Justin Frye would be retained there was an audible sigh of frustration from the fans. The previous coach, Klayton Adams, had been remarkably successful. Frye had come from a series of equally successful line creations, so what went wrong? Why is he still here? IMO the puzzle proved to be quite complex, especially regarding what went wrong.

Adams had introduced a more extensive use of Gap blocking. Most NFL teams at that point were using mostly zone blocking. Gap blocking had become passé. I remember being shocked when I saw so many linemen pulling under Adams. That’s typically the easiest way to identify gap blocking. I was initially disappointed when they acquired Froholdt, until I saw him pull. Traditionally the guard or guard and tackle pulled but Adams added a rare wrinkle. When Frye came in he used more zone but at key points but tried to inject gap plays.

So what went wrong? On the right side Brown was initially tried at right guard with Williams at tackle. Williams was returning from injury and it quickly became apparent he could only go one way: backwards. I’m actually not trying to be funny. He would immediately drop back; trying to cut the rushers angle. He was hopeless drive blocking. The Cards likely took it cautiously with him in camp. He clearly lacked lower body strength to simply go forward and block. In zone blocking you typically just block the target in front of you, principally a lineman or occasionally a linebacker. In gap the right guard, if not pulling, would block by passing laterally through the inside gap to hit the defensive player. This is called blocking down. Williams also seemed to lack lateral mobility, so he apparently couldn’t execute gap blocks. Josh Fryar came in at right tackle he looked surprisingly effective because he at least could execute the blocking scheme.

Isaiah Adams was struggling at left guard so they moved Brown to the left and rushed Hernandez back from injury. Brown had not been great at executing, but he’d played on the left and had Johnson to help him implement the correct block. Sadly Hernandez, like Williams, had not sufficiently built up his lower body strength. Once a great drive blocker; he struggled. His agility also seemed reduced. In the end the right side of the line was, IMO, simply incapable of proficiently blocking the scheme. On the left Brown never looked fluid. The A gap between Froholdt and the guards seemed perpetually open and the defense noted that; scheming to take advantage. They didn’t have to worry about handling gap blocks.

In 2026 much should be changed. At right tackle they added Wilkinson. He has been more effective at zone, looking adequate with some aspects of gap blocking. Historically he has been especially effective at pulling and blocking on the move. As Chopper noted on the board Bisontis has excellent lateral movement and is known to be strong when pulling. I should take a moment to note neither system is pure. I have tried to simplify these schemes somewhat to make clear what went wrong.

On the left side Johnson played in this system. He was effective. Seumalo is a master of both blocking schemes. He should easily adjust and excel. I think that’s likely why he was signed.

Overall I think the Cards retained Frye because they felt the team simply had the wrong linemen to make his system work. He’s been successful at multiple stops. If this works, the revised line should be capable of creating the holes Love needs to be the weapon the Cards badly desire!
 

BullheadCardFan

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When it was announced offensive line coach Justin Frye would be retained there was an audible sigh of frustration from the fans. The previous coach, Klayton Adams, had been remarkably successful. Frye had come from a series of equally successful line creations, so what went wrong? Why is he still here? IMO the puzzle proved to be quite complex, especially regarding what went wrong.

Adams had introduced a more extensive use of Gap blocking. Most NFL teams at that point were using mostly zone blocking. Gap blocking had become passé. I remember being shocked when I saw so many linemen pulling under Adams. That’s typically the easiest way to identify gap blocking. I was initially disappointed when they acquired Froholdt, until I saw him pull. Traditionally the guard or guard and tackle pulled but Adams added a rare wrinkle. When Frye came in he used more zone but at key points but tried to inject gap plays.

So what went wrong? On the right side Brown was initially tried at right guard with Williams at tackle. Williams was returning from injury and it quickly became apparent he could only go one way: backwards. I’m actually not trying to be funny. He would immediately drop back; trying to cut the rushers angle. He was hopeless drive blocking. The Cards likely took it cautiously with him in camp. He clearly lacked lower body strength to simply go forward and block. In zone blocking you typically just block the target in front of you, principally a lineman or occasionally a linebacker. In gap the right guard, if not pulling, would block by passing laterally through the inside gap to hit the defensive player. This is called blocking down. Williams also seemed to lack lateral mobility, so he apparently couldn’t execute gap blocks. Josh Fryar came in at right tackle he looked surprisingly effective because he at least could execute the blocking scheme.

Isaiah Adams was struggling at left guard so they moved Brown to the left and rushed Hernandez back from injury. Brown had not been great at executing, but he’d played on the left and had Johnson to help him implement the correct block. Sadly Hernandez, like Williams, had not sufficiently built up his lower body strength. Once a great drive blocker; he struggled. His agility also seemed reduced. In the end the right side of the line was, IMO, simply incapable of proficiently blocking the scheme. On the left Brown never looked fluid. The A gap between Froholdt and the guards seemed perpetually open and the defense noted that; scheming to take advantage. They didn’t have to worry about handling gap blocks.

In 2026 much should be changed. At right tackle they added Wilkinson. He has been more effective at zone, looking adequate with some aspects of gap blocking. Historically he has been especially effective at pulling and blocking on the move. As Chopper noted on the board Bisontis has excellent lateral movement and is known to be strong when pulling. I should take a moment to note neither system is pure. I have tried to simplify these schemes somewhat to make clear what went wrong.

On the left side Johnson played in this system. He was effective. Seumalo is a master of both blocking schemes. He should easily adjust and excel. I think that’s likely why he was signed.

Overall I think the Cards retained Frye because they felt the team simply had the wrong linemen to make his system work. He’s been successful at multiple stops. If this works, the revised line should be capable of creating the holes Love needs to be the weapon the Cards badly desire!
I certainly hope you are correct Harry
 

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Would be harsh to judge Frye on a a single year, and his first in the NFL, considering what he had to work with.

Klayton Adams wouldn't have got much out of Bam Knight and Michael Carter with Demetrious Jacobs and Josh Fryar at tackle and Isaiah Adams and Jon Gaines at guard.
 

oaken1

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Would be harsh to judge Frye on a a single year, and his first in the NFL, considering what he had to work with.

Klayton Adams wouldn't have got much out of Bam Knight and Michael Carter with Demetrious Jacobs and Josh Fryar at tackle and Isaiah Adams and Jon Gaines at guard.
This aint the JUCO circuit... this is the Not For Long League.
Dude is lucky he flopped so spectacularly with the Arizona Cardinals, and Mike Bidwill....otherwise his first chance at the Pro's would have been his last.
He took a top ten offensive line and made them 31st.... that type of failure doesnt get forgiven even if the reason is explainable...a good coach plays to the strengths of his players....so if the system wasnt working,...switch to man to man blocking for the rest of the season until you can improve the personnel.

as it was last year...had the line just performed a straight ahead drive block on the guy in front of them on every single play we would have averaged another full yard per carry.
 

BritCard

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This aint the JUCO circuit... this is the Not For Long League.
Dude is lucky he flopped so spectacularly with the Arizona Cardinals, and Mike Bidwill....otherwise his first chance at the Pro's would have been his last.
He took a top ten offensive line and made them 31st.... that type of failure doesnt get forgiven even if the reason is explainable...a good coach plays to the strengths of his players....so if the system wasnt working,...switch to man to man blocking for the rest of the season until you can improve the personnel.

as it was last year...had the line just performed a straight ahead drive block on the guy in front of them on every single play we would have averaged another full yard per carry.

I don't believe that. If people inside the building thought the guy had the right qualities then they would retain him.

We had our starting 5 25% of the time last year. He had 3rd stringers and PS call ups playing. We had PS running backs. There's only so much you can do with that.

It would be a sign of a bad Org to fire a guy they think is talented based on that.
 
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HairZach

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Would be harsh to judge Frye on a a single year, and his first in the NFL, considering what he had to work with.

Klayton Adams wouldn't have got much out of Bam Knight and Michael Carter with Demetrious Jacobs and Josh Fryar at tackle and Isaiah Adams and Jon Gaines at guard.
James Conner averaged 3 yards per carry the games he was healthy compared to 4.5 in 2024. Even with the starting RBs healthy they couldnt run at all.

Frye took a top 5 run blocking unit and made it the worst in the league.
 

BritCard

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James Conner averaged 3 yards per carry the games he was healthy compared to 4.5 in 2024. Even with the starting RBs healthy they couldnt run at all.

Frye took a top 5 run blocking unit and made it the worst in the league.

Small sample size. In those same games Trey Benson averaged 5.5 YPA.

It's amazing to me how many people want him to suck based on such superficial information which was obtained in the crappiest of circumstances.
 

HairZach

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Small sample size. In those same games Trey Benson averaged 5.5 YPA.

It's amazing to me how many people want him to suck based on such superficial information which was obtained in the crappiest of circumstances.
Benson is an even smaller sample size.

The OL suddenly being horrible at run blocking was THE story of the first 4 games of the season, and it was something that never improved. I dont want him to be bad, but its revisionist history to pretend that he wasn't.

He can still make up for it by being good next season.
 

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I don't believe that. If people inside the building thought the guy had the right qualities then they would retain him.

We had our starting 5 25% of the time last year. He had 3rd stringers and PS call ups playing. We had PS running backs. There's only so much you can do with that.

It would be a sign of a bad Org to fire a guy they think is talented based on that.
The team purposefully put us in a position to have our top 5 out that long. Not addressing Hern's OG spot was simply criminal, and rushing him back and forcing him to play early was also dumb.
 

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Isaiah Adams was struggling at left guard so they moved Brown to the left and rushed Hernandez back from injury. Brown had not been great at executing, but he’d played on the left and had Johnson to help him implement the correct block.
Adams played right guard. Brown was always on the left, and Hernandez stepped in for Adams on the right.

I think Adams got a bit of a bad rap due to the need to overcompensate for the pathetic play at Right Tackle.
 

MadCardDisease

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Adams played right guard. Brown was always on the left, and Hernandez stepped in for Adams on the right.

I think Adams got a bit of a bad rap due to the need to overcompensate for the pathetic play at Right Tackle.

Yep he did start at RG until Hernandez was healthy enough to return. Adams did play one game at LG though.


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Benson is an even smaller sample size.

The OL suddenly being horrible at run blocking was THE story of the first 4 games of the season, and it was something that never improved. I dont want him to be bad, but its revisionist history to pretend that he wasn't.

He can still make up for it by being good next season.

Was Frye bad or did he just have nothing to work with? How could anyone possibly know?

In a season that we aren't winning anything (shock horror) it doesn't hurt to find out.
 

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I don't believe that. If people inside the building thought the guy had the right qualities then they would retain him.

We had our starting 5 25% of the time last year. He had 3rd stringers and PS call ups playing. We had PS running backs. There's only so much you can do with that.

It would be a sign of a bad Org to fire a guy they think is talented based on that.
I know what we had.

I also know that I noticed the droppoff in line play on the very first drive of the season...pretty sure I mentioned it in the game thread.
It didnt take a stack of injuries to see the guys were under performing
 

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It is difficult to assess Frye because Klayton Adams was also the run game coordinator and likely designed the line movement as part of the run packages (as we saw what migrated to Dallas).

So a downgrade in coordination, a downgrade in roster and a new line coach - unless he was as good as Adams or Petzing was responsible for run design the whole time, a dropoff was inevitable.

Like Rallis, this year will be telling.
 

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based on injuries and lack of cohesion with starters throughout the year, he gets another chance. Now, if the OL stays healthy and plays majority of season together and the run game still blows, then he is replaced.
 

slanidrac16

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Thanks Harry.
My thoughts on retaining Frye was he is an offensive line coach whose has got to know every system.
I figured if whatever we were doing wrong or differently would change with ML coming in an implementing what system ( gap or Zone ) we would coach.
That’s why the a lot fan goes nuts when we sign a player without fully understanding how that player fits.
 

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Injuries took a major toll on our OL. Both Will Hernandez and Jonah Williams returned too soon. The ‘Big Johns’ along the OL need time to recover from serious injury. JW in particular lost his agility and power when he came back too soon. He was a big FA signing—he was the 11th overall pick by the Bengals in 2019 and was a major ‘get’ by Monti. WH and JW were part of our dominant run game—when both were healthy.

There are two players named Jonah Williams (the other is the DL Cards signed). PFF has the two confused and has us signing OL JW.

Not sure where OL JW is—wonder if the Cards will invite him to camp to check out his knee?
 
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Harry

Harry

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James Conner averaged 3 yards per carry the games he was healthy compared to 4.5 in 2024. Even with the starting RBs healthy they couldnt run at all.

Frye took a top 5 run blocking unit and made it the worst in the league.
Injuries were part of it
 
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