Watching the Twins succeed from afar.....

JohnnyCakes

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They didn't fleece the Suns. They were going to get a similar package elsewhere.

Premium stuff is often overpriced, that's just the way it is.

If you want to try and shortcut the process of building your team through development you take enormous risk. That's where we are. I sure hope it ends up working out, then we won't have to revisit this trade for then next 20 years constantly.
KD has not been "premium stuff", or even CLOSE to that.

Just traded way 2 great players for a washed up old bag
 

AzStevenCal

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about time he showed up
It isn't about how he plays, it's if he plays. When he plays, he's still in the argument for best player in the game. IMO We overpaid but it's not because he's no longer elite. It's because he comes with huge risks (injury and age) which should have significantly reduced our acquisition cost.
 

Sunburn

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He has said plainly that his mentality changed once he went to Brooklyn (actually some weeks before). In his mind, he was playing a complementary role, but when he got to Brooklyn, he looked around and realized he had to be the guy.

Man. Why do people always have to have someone to blame? Good on Mikal. He was great here too.
Ok. We didn't underutilize him. He changed his mindset.
 

JohnnyCakes

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It isn't about how he plays, it's if he plays. When he plays, he's still in the argument for best player in the game. IMO We overpaid but it's not because he's no longer elite. It's because he comes with huge risks (injury and age) which should have significantly reduced our acquisition cost.
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas
 

Hoop Head

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If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas

So you aren't interested in an actual discussion? Like I get it, the Suns overpaid and I didn't like the trade but the more he's played the more I've come around. Despite my own reservations I always recognized the potential for this to be a home run as in making the Suns legit contenders. The regular season isn't over so saying it's a massive failure while refusing to acknowledge how KD and the Suns are playing excellent basketball is ridiculous.
 

JohnnyCakes

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So you aren't interested in an actual discussion? Like I get it, the Suns overpaid and I didn't like the trade but the more he's played the more I've come around. Despite my own reservations I always recognized the potential for this to be a home run as in making the Suns legit contenders. The regular season isn't over so saying it's a massive failure while refusing to acknowledge how KD and the Suns are playing excellent basketball is ridiculous.

the suns overpaid for a player who is injury prone and aging. It was dumb. I dont need to explain further...its very simple.
 

Covert Rain

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KD has not been "premium stuff", or even CLOSE to that.

Just traded way 2 great players for a washed up old bag
They are undefeated with him. LOL. Plus, we have not seen how this or next season turns out. Pre-mature much?!
 

Hoop Head

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How else would you measure that? LOL. Bottom line is with him in the lineup zero loses. Also, in terms of his aging? He has been unguardable in critical spots since his first game back. LMAO.

Do you even watch the games?

I honestly don't believe he's posted on the Suns board prior to the trade. I get being critical of it, I believe me and you have gone back and forth over the deal because I didn't like it but seems you're wasting your time trying to engage in a real discussion with them.
 

Phrazbit

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They didn't fleece the Suns. They were going to get a similar package elsewhere.

Premium stuff is often overpriced, that's just the way it is.

If you want to try and shortcut the process of building your team through development you take enormous risk. That's where we are. I sure hope it ends up working out, then we won't have to revisit this trade for then next 20 years constantly.

Johnnycakes is borderline trolling but I disagree.

They were not going to get a similar package elsewhere. We can argue in circles but I don't see any chance they got near what we offered from anyone else.
 

Covert Rain

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Johnnycakes is borderline trolling but I disagree.

They were not going to get a similar package elsewhere. We can argue in circles but I don't see any chance they got near what we offered from anyone else.
Yes they would have. I mean you could argue maybe the got an extra pick and a swap but they were getting a haul for KD if not at the deadline in the offseason.
 

Phrazbit

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Yes they would have. I mean you could argue maybe the got an extra pick and a swap but they were getting a haul for KD if not at the deadline in the offseason.

Sigh... no... I don't think they would have.

The offers were not there last year, the idea that teams were going to up their offers after KD aged another year and had another season full of injury is completely illogical.

But we went over all this before.
 

Covert Rain

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Sigh... no... I don't think they would have.

The offers were not there last year, the idea that teams were going to up their offers after KD aged another year and had another season full of injury is completely illogical.

But we went over all this before.
What do you mean they were not there? We don't know everything that what was out there. Most teams are never going to reveal their offers. We do know the Celtics were interested and they were floating Brown, White and draft compensation as a starter.

If the Suns were not in the picture the Nets were going to get similar compensation either more player heavy or more pick heavy from other teams.
 

Phrazbit

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What do you mean they were not there? We don't know everything that what was out there. Most teams are never going to reveal their offers. We do know the Celtics were interested and they were floating Brown, White and draft compensation as a starter.

If the Suns were not in the picture the Nets were going to get similar compensation either more player heavy or more pick heavy from other teams.

We know the Nets said the Celtics were floating Brown and the Celtics said they were not... furthermore, if they WERE floating Brown... why didn't the Nets take it? I call BS on that offer.

No, I don't see where an offer even close to ours comes from. The idea it would have materialized is based on nothing and totally ignores the other issues surrounding KD and the Nets situation.

You cannot ignore his age and injury history. No one offered a haul because no team has ever gotten a haul for a player that old. We were not offering a haul for him either until Ishbia stepped in and hit the 'big splash/desperation/panic' button.
 

Covert Rain

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We know the Nets said the Celtics were floating Brown and the Celtics said they were not... furthermore, if they WERE floating Brown... why didn't the Nets take it? I call BS on that offer.

No, I don't see where an offer even close to ours comes from. The idea it would have materialized is based on nothing and totally ignores the other issues surrounding KD and the Nets situation.

You cannot ignore his age and injury history. No one offered a haul because no team has ever gotten a haul for a player that old. We were not offering a haul for him either until Ishbia stepped in and hit the 'big splash/desperation/panic' button.
OK, if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. Some of the most reliable beat reporters in Boston said it was true. Not to mention the Suns have denied tons of reports about players in the past only for that player to be moved. I call B.S. on that B.S.

Most teams simply are not going to admit floating players because if it doesn't work out, they have burned that relationship. Nobody is ignoring age and history. Just like you can't ignore when healthy you get a generational player.
 

Phrazbit

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OK, if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. Some of the most reliable beat reporters in Boston said it was true. Not to mention the Suns have denied tons of reports about players in the past only for that player to be moved. I call B.S. on that B.S.

Most teams simply are not going to admit floating players because if it doesn't work out, they have burned that relationship.

I don't think that offer exists and I certainly don't think it would have existed this summer, if it had been there last summer then Brooklyn would have accepted it, just as they said the offer they got out of us would have completed the trade during the summer but we were not willing to include Bridges.

If we don't win the title this year and if the Celtics actually were willing to do that then WE should trade them KD this summer for Brown, White and picks, it would be a no brainer.

But, for many reasons, it won't happen, chief among them being that the Celtics wouldn't make that offer, because KD is too old and too injured to justify anything close to that price.
 

Covert Rain

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I don't think that offer exists and I certainly don't think it would have existed this summer, if it had been there last summer then Brooklyn would have accepted it, just as they said the offer they got out of us would have completed the trade during the summer but we were not willing to include Bridges.

If we don't win the title this year and if the Celtics actually were willing to do that then WE should trade them KD this summer for Brown, White and picks, it would be a no brainer.

But, for many reasons, it won't happen, chief among them being that the Celtics wouldn't make that offer, because KD is too old and too injured to justify anything close to that price.
Not really because Brooklyn wasn't in any hurry to move KD and didn't like the offers they received the first time. The fact they attempted to repair the relationship with KD is proof positive of that. If they were desperate maybe they would have taken that offer but they were not. Nets figured they could get more for him later.

We don't know about any final offers or how far teams were willing to go because KD had a destination. Had the Suns pulled out there is no telling what haul they would have ended up with from another team.
 

Phrazbit

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Not really because Brooklyn wasn't in any hurry to move KD and didn't like the offers they received the first time. The fact they attempted to repair the relationship with KD is proof positive of that. If they were desperate maybe they would have taken that offer but they were not. Nets figured they could get more for him later.

We don't know about any final offers or how far teams were willing to go because KD had a destination. Had the Suns pulled out there is no telling what haul they would have ended up with from another team.

We gave up one of the most lucrative trade packages ever... for a 34 year old who has struggled to stay healthy and who was injured at the time of the trade (hurts my brain just to think about).

Destination or not, there is no way anyone was going to sniff what we gave up.

We really need to win the title this year, it ain't going to get easier after this.
 

Covert Rain

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We gave up one of the most lucrative trade packages ever... for a 34 year old who has struggled to stay healthy and who was injured at the time of the trade (hurts my brain just to think about).

Destination or not, there is no way anyone was going to sniff what we gave up.

We really need to win the title this year, it ain't going to get easier after this.
There simply no way to know that and STARTING trade rumors seem to disagree with that. We will have to agree to disagree because it's pure speculation.

P.S. I think next year we have a legit shot as well unless the wheels fall off.
 

Phrazbit

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There simply no way to know that and STARTING trade rumors seem to disagree with that. We will have to agree to disagree because it's pure speculation.

P.S. I think next year we have a legit shot as well unless the wheels fall off.

I'm not saying we won't have a shot, but I think it's going to be difficult to go into next season with even the level of depth we have now... and Paul and Durant will be a year older.

Jones is going to have to find some real gems while only having the MLE and minimum contracts to work with.
 

SirStefan32

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The only hope for next year is for vets to take a discount to play with KD and Book. As anything else related to discussions regarding the KD trade, it could happen, but it may not.
 

JCSunsfan

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So you aren't interested in an actual discussion? Like I get it, the Suns overpaid and I didn't like the trade but the more he's played the more I've come around. Despite my own reservations I always recognized the potential for this to be a home run as in making the Suns legit contenders. The regular season isn't over so saying it's a massive failure while refusing to acknowledge how KD and the Suns are playing excellent basketball is ridiculous.
Isn't this the definition of a troll? Maybe stop feeding him?
 
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